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I hate TikTok but it feels like banning an entire website is a serious slippery slope situation.

Telegram is a messaging app, not an algorithmic societal poison program.
I kept hearing all this hate and how tiktok is poison until I finally downloaded it...my algorithm has gotten me videos to catchup with the NBA highlights, DIY help for home projects, comedy and the news updates. Also, they added STEM section for people to focus on that. It has been by far more beneficial than my IG or FB account.
 
TikTok users will just move to some other productivity wasting brain cell killing platform (e.g. Instagram, YouTube, Snapchat, X, etc.). There are plenty out there.
All these platforms have whatever you're looking for the difference is the UI. I personally benefit so much from the great content I get from YT and TT.
 
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This kind of... KIND OF... feels like the beginning of the view I use to put on other countries actively blocking websites or services. I haven't followed the details enough, but between this and the issues surrounding DJI/Drone use, I'm not sure I agree with the direction it's going.


Do you have the same problem with Apple being required to invest in a country's economy before being allowed to sell there?
 
I have no problem with the ban. At the same time I would have no problem if the EU and other countries ban Twitter, Facebook, instagram. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
If TikTok then why not Telegram too?
Isn’t Telegram a UAE company? UAE isn’t a foreign adversary to the US. That’s why the US is giving an option to TikTok to be sold to a non-foreign adversary company. Also Telegram doesn’t have algorithms that could be used against US people.
 
Isn’t Telegram a UAE company? UAE isn’t a foreign adversary to the US. That’s why the US is giving an option to TikTok to be sold to a non-foreign adversary company. Also Telegram doesn’t have algorithms that could be used against US people.
There are strong indications that Telegram is actually controlled by Russia and the UAE company is just a front. But as others have pointed out, Telegram is primarily a messaging platform, not strictly a social media provider.
 
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So make it web based. Problem solved, I’m sure kids will figure out VPNs in an instant (if they haven’t already.)

This is actually a big irony in all this. In my day it would have been. Now a website accessible only via VPN is essentially (literally?) the dark web.

Not that I am defending TikTok specifically.
 
Telegram is a messaging app, not an algorithmic societal poison program.

Telegram is not Chinese.

China does ban American-owned messaging apps such as WhatsApp, along with most/all American social media apps. If Telegram were Chinese then why shouldn't the US reciprocate?

Messaging apps are pretty important social infrastructure and it would be crazy to let them be operated by an unfriendly government.
 
If app is banned, I stressed this many times, China will retaliate most likely by banning Apple products from being made, or be used in the country. Or in fact from any American company.

It’s about to become a total trade war from looks of it.
Gee... I wonder why the CCP would feel so strongly about this???

🧐
 
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A set of authoritative opinions on the TikTok ban from folks in my policy circle:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blo...pert-guide-to-the-debate-over-banning-tiktok/
Personally, my opinion is that finely-crafted legislation should concentrate on the collection & expatriation of & access to personal data. However in practice, they are already just letting CCP proxies access personal surveillance data on US-hosted servers, which is practically impossible to monitor or control. The only real technical solution is "don't gather the data in the first place".
Which would be a bit difficult given that TikTok's mobile apps are basically spyware with some video features thrown in to make it tasty...
 
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The crazy part is, they passed this ban as part of a Ukraine Relief Package. That was probably the only way they could get it banned - put it in something larger that would definitely get passed.
 
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Let’s face it. The US just isn’t happy that there is another big player on the market that isn’t American. Where is the actual PROOF that they are doing anything wrong? So far I have only read assumptions because … BOOOO china

And no, I don’t even use TikTok and don’t like the government of China either but this seems more like a „business decision“ more than anything, just like the whole Huawei ordeal. „Gotta slow em down cuz we can’t have China be ahead in the whole phone bizz“

I have no love for TikTok, but I think it’s hilarious they are singling out this one app from one company and citing security concerns and concerns the app may collect personal data and manipulate users. On that basis I would have thought they should be banning about 90% of the industry, starting with TwiXter and FaceMuck.
We can dive REALLY deep into any number of conspiracy theories and divert from the public information. However, based on the public information the TikTok ban is comprised of two things. One, the identification of a national security threat. The details of that threat are not really stated with any level of granularity, but it has been identified as such. Two, because of this identified threat the choices have been given of selling the business to a non-Chinese based owner (German owner would be fine) and keep the entire business up and going, social media competition and all, and the owners would get paid out very well.....OR...get the ban. If this was some bigger gov helping the US based social media companies they would not have offered them an out, just as if it was a play to simply reduce "fake news" then all social media sites would be targeted. There is more here than they are saying....which makes sense because it is NATIONAL SECURITY. They would be absolute idiots to give the full reasons.

Users can get around the TikTok app ban by using the TikTok website (https://www.tiktok.com/).
If the ban goes into effect that would only work if it was used in conjunction with a VPN.

Sounds like it could still be sideloaded on Android.
The servers will be blocked so that would not work unless paired with a VPN connection.

I really don't understand why people are singling out the bad content on TikTok, meanwhile, the same crap is on YT Shorts and Instagram reels.
Because no national security threat has been identified on those platforms. Maybe there is advertisement bent on swinging public opinion, but there is more to the national security risk from TikTok than simple ads and algorithms. See my top comments.

To me this seems like major Govt overreach. People opt in to use services like TikTok and if they are ok with what TikTok gathers from them from an information standpoint then it shouldn't be the Govt's job to be the people's Nanny and tell them what they can and can't use. This also seems more for the benefit of Facebook and other companies because they are eliminating their number 1 competitor.
Facebook might benefit, but only if TikTok is not sold. If they sell to anyone, US based purchaser or not, then Facebook doesn't benefit.

Also, the idea that the general public know what is best has been proven time and time again to be false. I suppose you could argue that people should be left to deal with their own consequences but since we live in a society and not in isolation, that does not work. It is why there are rules around alcohol, gambling, etc.... Maybe you would also consider it overreach by the government to require vehicles to contain seatbelts or for no further chips from huawei allowed in the US or many EU countries, but then I guess that is where you would likely be in the minority with most people as we prefer the safety these rules provide.

True, and that does seem like the basis SCOTUS will use to keep the ban. But legal tricks aside, the users of TikTok will no longer be able to express themselves in the same way. Yes, that's ByteDance's fault, but the effect is a loss of free expression imho. You can say they can go to another platform, sure, but what about all the historical content users have posted on TikTok. That's just gone. All that free expression vanished retroactively. And that's not ByteDance's free expression that's been disappeared, it's Americans' expression who have first amendment rights.
You are REALLY reaching here dude. The 1st Amendment blurb from WhiteHouse.gov:
"The First Amendment provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise. It protects freedom of speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
ByteDance is not a religious organization and are not covered. A human choosing to use a business's services, when those services change for ANY reason, is not having their 1st Amendment rights violated or reduced. That is a risk a human took when they chose to use a business's services to begin with as the way they decided to disseminate their free speech. What if Bytedance went out of business because of poor management? Under your logic that is a loss of free speech. Nope. Just because someone's past "expression" is gone doesn't mean they were not FREE to have made it, nor a being prevented from making it right now. It's like saying that every word that someone speaks in public about some topic that isn't recorded and kept forever is a "loss of free speech". Your argument lacks depth and validity.
 
I think it’s about time people started learning to utilize their time constructively. Then this type of mindless nonsense, a part of the human race For Pete's sake 😂🤣🥲
 
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TikTok is likely to be banned in the United States on January 19, after the United States Supreme Court indicated that it's leaning toward upholding the sell or ban law.

tiktok-logo.jpg

As highlighted by Bloomberg, the Supreme Court heard arguments on the case today, and it didn't go well for TikTok. Most of the justices indicated that worry over U.S. national security overrides free speech, and there were concerns about the personal data that TikTok collects from users, content manipulation, and the influence that China has over ByteDance.

Justice Elena Kagan wasn't a fan of TikTok's argument that its constitutional rights were being violated. "The law is only targeted at this foreign corporation, which doesn't have First Amendment rights," she said.

Justice John Roberts said that "Congress is fine with the expression," but "not fine with a foreign adversary ... gathering all this information about the 170 million people who use TikTok." He also questioned China's influence on ByteDance. "Are we supposed to ignore the fact that the ultimate parent is in fact subject to doing intelligence work for the Chinese government?" he asked TikTok's lawyer.

The Supreme Court could give a ruling on TikTok before January 19, or postpone the date that the law goes into effect to give more time for consideration. TikTok asked the court to halt the ban while it waits for the appeals process to play out, but the court elected to hear the case ahead of January 19.

If the court upholds the law, U.S. app stores will not be able to distribute the TikTok app as of January 19. TikTok users who already have the app will be able to continue using it, but it will stop functioning over time because updates weren't be permitted.

ByteDance can opt to sell TikTok to an approved company, which would allow TikTok to continue to operate. A sale won't happen before January 19, but if TikTok is banned, it could be reinstated after a sale. ByteDance has claimed that a sale is not possible, and that China would not approve the divestiture of TikTok and its algorithm.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: TikTok Ban Looking Likely After U.S. Supreme Court Hears Case
I'm no fan of TikTok, but this process is hypocritical and sickening. We all know the problem is not platform ownership. The problem is manipulative algorithmic feeds and zero user rights to limit collection and use of their personal information.

This remedy effectively says "only US-owned platforms are permitted to inflict life-and-sanity-threatening harm through targeted, systematic brainwashing of individual and arbitraty groups of American children, vulnerable adults and American society in general.

The worse part of this is that the addicted believe they’re
exercising 'free will' when they’re actually being controlled by these fundamentally coercive platforms. China knows this — which is why they restrict and control the use of these platforms domestically. The US also knows this but politicians are afraid of SM companies and their zombie armies — which is why we see this half-step directed at TikTok.


Give users property rights to their personal information and the force of law to assert and enforce those rights (similar to the rights we have for personal property backed by criminal and civil laws and penalties for theft and other misuse of personal property) and the problem is largely solved for users of TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, X and other platforms that exploit users digital identities (often to those users detriment) without consequence.

While I celebrate this action, tackling a societal issue by targeting one foreign company while ignoring the immense societal harm and risks caused by US companies is hypocritical and sickening.
 
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