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So with this, we can expect higher wages for people making the products, maybe moving production to a place that doesn't have so many human rights violations? :D

Verbal trickery. You are making accusations that are so vague that they cannot possibly be refuted. What place with "so many" human rights violations are you talking about? The USA? What place are you talking about where wages haven't increased in the last years?

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You claim that global warming has paused for the last 15 years. The Met Office makes it clear that it has not - merely that the global mean temperature has remained fairly steady. That's quite different.

As an example: If you take ice at -20 Celsius and add heat, the temperature will increase. But once it reaches 0 degrees, it stays stable for a very long time while the ice melts. In this case, air temperature doesn't increase because the energy is heating up the water.
 
While at times I often criticize Apple and while I'm definitely not overly liberal in the conventional sense (though I trend left) I'm going to say...this actually gives me some respect for Cook. True I think he's a far better CFO than CEO, but thank god he isn't soulless, unlike so many, and unlike how I perceived him.

Boomish69 said:
It was my first thought, dam it's so cliche but I do wonder what he would have said, it certainly makes happy reading to see Tim Cook react like this. Not something Samsung would do

I completely disagree with this. We don't know how Samsung would react. Whether they do or don't is immaterial here. It is something hopefully that Apple does right (if accurate)
 
Verbal trickery. You are making accusations that are so vague that they cannot possibly be refuted. What place with "so many" human rights violations are you talking about? The USA? What place are you talking about where wages haven't increased in the last years?

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As an example: If you take ice at -20 Celsius and add heat, the temperature will increase. But once it reaches 0 degrees, it stays stable for a very long time while the ice melts. In this case, air temperature doesn't increase because the energy is heating up the water.

And yet somebody pointed out to me how they moved Mac Pro manufacturing from China to the US. So apparently it isn't "impossible to refute". And are you really going to argue that China doesn't have drastically low wages and multitudes of human rights violations?
 
And what do we do with the ignorant ones that believe earth is just 2000 yeas old?

Wow, talk about ignorance! According to the Bible, the earth is nearly 6,000 years old! :D:p

6017-6018. But, who's counting?

James Ussher (sometimes spelled Usher, 4 January 1581 – 21 March 1656) was Church of Ireland Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland between 1625 and 1656. He was a prolific scholar, who most famously published a chronology that purported to establish the time and date of the creation as the night preceding Sunday, 23 October 4004 BC, according to the proleptic Julian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Ussher

Bullcrap...it's all about the ROI...but that's not a bad thing! All these green initiatives, supplier responsibility programs, etc. enhance apple's image and, in turn, increase profits. The fact that everyone on this forum is lauding Tim's behavior is proof that these programs improve Apple's image. Tim's response was brilliant, since it gives the impression that Apple puts people over profits.

And maybe they do...and I'm not saying that Tim doesn't genuinely care about the environment and humane issues. I'm saying that, in addition to the positive impact on environment and treatment of human beings, there is clearly a business incentive behind these programs.

I agree. What makes some two-bit think-tank pundit think they know more about ROI than Apple? It is, on the face of it, preposterous.

It's more proof that profit-driven businesses are incentivized, by profit, to do the right thing. Of course, it is pretty much impossible to definitively calculate the ROI on such programs, which is why narrow-minded, conventional business practices would dictate that such programs are not worth implementing. As a result, these conventional businesses would lose in the free market against those like Apple.

The fact is that, whatever the motivation, NCPPR (National Center for Public Policy Research) has an agenda. You can read all about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Ridenour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Public_Policy_Research

Let's just say their agenda doesn't have anything to do with your (if you are an Apple shareholder) ROI.
 
There are many posts about ROI in this thread, but to me the main point is that ROI always has a time frame. It appears that the NCPPR is not concerned about ROI per se, but about short-termism. The fools. Did they learn nothing from the latest crash?

All this makes me want to but APPL stock and donate any profits to education in science....
 
Got some evidence to back up that opinion? Please cite it.

They clearly aren't a very intelligent group of people. They are telling the most profitable company in the world how to be profitable? Let me know what your precious right wing think tank is making 13 billion a quarter.
 
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There are many posts about ROI in this thread, but to me the main point is that ROI always has a time frame. It appears that the NCPPR is not concerned about ROI per se, but about short-termism. The fools. Did they learn nothing from the latest crash?

All this makes me want to but APPL stock and donate any profits to education in science....

This would get you the best true ROI one could ever have; the broadening and education of a person's mind.

And for those who are for what this idiot group wanted (read: profits): Too bad the Ferengi don't exist (that we know of), otherwise we'd cram as many of you as we can into the smallest Soyuz we could find and ship you off to them (one way). Their religion matches you perfectly.

Oh.. and didn't some Bible or something state that the love of money (profit) is the root of all evil? That would make this group, and anyone that follows them… evil.

BL.
 
This is what makes a company: its ethics.

Apple and its employees care about more than profitability; they care about how what they do impacts the world, not how much money they make every quarter.

Don't get too excited about Tim's ethics everyone ... consider that they are increasingly making products that can't be repaired by the end user, thereby making products that ultimately damage the environment much more.

see: http://ifixit.org
 
This is exactly why I'm so skeptical of the climate change bandwagon. I can guarantee that 97% of the world's scientists have NOT dug deeply and exhaustively into all of the data that's been collected. So how is it they seem to "agree" or are they just along for what looks like a popular ride? Anytime I see percentages like that around something so controversial and nebulous, I can only think we're just watching a parade if not a charade. And what about that other 3%? What are they not seeing? Let's remember the theory of relativity didn't result from some poll.

The number of things wrong with this post is almost comical.

1. You say "I can guarantee" about a huge group of people and what they have or haven't done. The irony of making such a sweeping statement, without science, about science...well, it's palpable.
2. You are under the misguided notion that an "exhaustive" dive into the data is necessary for one to reach a conclusion. It isn't. The entire purpose of aggregated information and reducing dimensionality is to make it tractable for people. In science, there are standards for how that is done. When people make short-cuts, those short-cuts are called out. One need not spend his or her career in climatology to be able to assess the quality of the evidence.
3. You also are under the misguided notion that the debate being "controversial and nebulous" is about the science rather than politics. It's only controversial because the theory of climate change is economically inconvenient for some.
4. As for the other 3%, if their stuff were that compelling, then the balance would tilt their way. Maybe they have an axe to grind? Maybe they're paid for those views? Maybe they're crappy scientists? I don't know. But I do know that in modern times, when it comes to science, the majority of folks make their careers through rigor, not an agenda. It's a largely unbiased field, with the exception of research funding. But that alone is likely not a big enough carrot to create a bunch of false statistics.
 
I don't know what politics you follow, but the parties defiantly are not equally full of whackos, lick up the tea party, Ted Cruz rand Paul.. Are there no left wing ones? Of course there are I personally don't like nancy p. but you can not say that the two parties as of now are both equally crazy..

Apparently you enjoy paying through the nose in taxes. I'm sick and tired of being one of the 51% who pay federal income taxes so the other 49% do not have to. I'm sick and tired of farm subsidies. I'm sick and tired of a huge military and being the world's police force. I'm sick and tired of giving welfare checks and food stamps to able working bodies, when at least they could pick up garbage off the streets for those freebies while they look for jobs. I'm sick and tired of the Homeland Security spying on it's own people. I guess that makes me an extremist. :rolleyes:
 
Apparently you enjoy paying through the nose in taxes. I'm sick and tired of being one of the 51% who pay federal income taxes so the other 49% do not have to. I'm sick and tired of farm subsidies. I'm sick and tired of a huge military and being the world's police force. I'm sick and tired of giving welfare checks and food stamps to able working bodies, when at least they could pick up garbage off the streets for those freebies while they look for jobs. I'm sick and tired of the Homeland Security spying on it's own people. I guess that makes me an extremist. :rolleyes:


I'm completely with you on all those points...
 
Seriously. Maybe if Apple stopped worrying about "the environment" they could turn a profit.

You fail to understand the fact that there is something more important than profit. Profit is so cheap that it can always be lost and remade; your character and integrity should never be sacrificed so cheaply.

If one is willing to do that, they have some serious issues to deal with.

BL.
 
Apparently you enjoy paying through the nose in taxes. I'm sick and tired of being one of the 51% who pay federal income taxes so the other 49% do not have to. I'm sick and tired of farm subsidies. I'm sick and tired of a huge military and being the world's police force. I'm sick and tired of giving welfare checks and food stamps to able working bodies, when at least they could pick up garbage off the streets for those freebies while they look for jobs. I'm sick and tired of the Homeland Security spying on it's own people. I guess that makes me an extremist. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but that's the price you have to pay to live in any country: you pay for those poorer than you.

The poor have no desire or interest to pick up trash while you pay for their welfare checks and food stamps. That is not their place in life to do those things. Instead, they are much better off with you paying for their benefits. Don't like it? Then feel free to form your own country somewhere else.

Remember, nobody is interested in allowing you to live on their property for free, and the ownership of this country includes the poor.

And the because the poor also own the country, they get to also control the police and nuclear-armed military, which can be readily pointed at you if you wish.

Humans are territorial beings. The price we offer you to pay for allowing you to live with us in this country is relatively cheap compared to the alternatives.

You will have to form your own kingdom somewhere else if you wish to live for free.

Otherwise, pay up, and quit yer whining.

Be proud of having to pay for those that do not pay income taxes. You will feel more responsible that way.
 
It's pretty sad when they release a statement saying Apple cares more about the environment than shareholder profit...

What kind of World do these greedy shareholders want exactly
 
Holy cow! And I think this was staged.

Okay, I have not read any other comments yet - I want to get my post out before my initial thoughts are influenced in any way...

I'm conservative, and I stand with Tim Cook on this! I should state emphatically, that if this is the behavior of the NCPPR, then they do NOT represent conservative values! You can call them shills. Are they shills all the time? I don't know, but definitely yes in this case!

Conservative values include responsibility, environmental concerns, worker safety, etc. Conservatives encourage (but not force) individuals and businesses to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

One of the differences between the conservative and liberal mindsets is that conservatives understand all these issues are an individual and private responsibility, whereas the stereotypical liberal mindset wants the government to force the public to embrace their "values". It's all about personal responsibility vs compulsion. The stuff Apple is doing is fantastic! And their efforts are properly focused right where they should be - in the hands of the private sector!

It is quite possible though, that Tim just got played here... I think this guy from the NCPPR is a stooge, and was sent to cause a ruckus, knowing full well what Tim's reaction might be. Then, like clockwork, the NCPPR would publish a "scathing report" under the "banner of conservatism", for the purpose of intentionally tarnishing the image of conservatives in the media.

There are posers out there trying to damage any consideration of the true values of anything conservative. Don't believe it! Don't fall for the ruse! We should call these people CINOs (conservatives in name only). They do NOT represent real conservative people or conservative values!
 
It's pretty sad when they release a statement saying Apple cares more about the environment than shareholder profit...

What kind of World do these greedy shareholders want exactly

Actually, they were not representing shareholders in any real sense. They were representing people and corporations who believe that tobacco and fossil fuel use is good, and anything "green" is by definition bad. You can read all about their president, Amy Ridenour, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Ridenour

Or, you can read some of her blogs. My favorite is her defense of Helen Chenowith-Hage:

http://www.nationalcenter.org/2006/10/washington-post-publishes-smear.html

Or, you can google her. And, the same for Chenowith-Hage, whose world-view resembled that of Huck Finn's father:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Chenoweth-Hage

From 1995:

Eco-Thug: Helen Chenoweth

by Paul Rauber

Most of the anti-environmental zealots spotlighted as "eco-thugs" in this column thus far have objected, claiming that they are, in fact, misunderstood nature lovers. No such quibble is likely to come from Idaho Representative Helen Chenoweth (R), who takes the rhetoric of the "War on the Environment" literally.

"We are in a battle today that is far more insidious and dangerous as far as conquering our people and our soul than we have ever faced before," she told an Idaho church group. "Our land has been taken. It's time we reclaim our land."

For the Idaho congressman (as Chenoweth insists on being called), this is a religious war. "There is increasing evidence of a government-sponsored religion in America," she declared on the House floor. "This religion, a cloudy mixture of New Age mysticism, Native American folklore, and primitive Earth worship, is being promoted and enforced by the Clinton administration in violation of our rights and freedoms." Critics scoffed that Chenoweth had finally gone off the deep end, but deep-enders are her core constituency. She rose up through the ranks of the Republican Party in Idaho by representing the John Birch Society, the so-called Wise Users, and the militia movement (for whom the Idaho Statesman calls her the "poster child").

Chenoweth plays to the paranoia of far-rightists by fanning their delusions about mysterious black helicopters supposedly used by federal Fish and Wildlife agents to enforce environmental laws in Idaho. "I have never seen them," Chenoweth admitted to The New York Times. "But enough people in my district have become concerned that I can't just ignore it. We do have some proof."

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/199605/priorities.asp
 
They clearly aren't a very intelligent group of people. They are telling the most profitable company in the world how to be profitable? Let me know what your precious right wing think tank is making 13 billion a quarter.

Walmart makes the most money than any company in the world. Around 450Billon last year. Oh and Samsung makes more money than Apple/Google combined. Also hording 160Billion doesn't mean profitable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walmart

Enjoy.
 
Walmart makes the most money than any company in the world. Around 450Billon last year. Oh and Samsung makes more money than Apple/Google combined. Also hording 160Billion doesn't mean profitable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walmart

Enjoy.

Yes, but the top 2 profit producers after its all said and done are Apple and Exxon.

Some ****** right wing think tank thinks they know better than Apple? Where is their multi billion a year profit? Where are there world changing products? Where are there multi million units a year products?
If they know better than Apple they should be making it, but it seems like Apple is making world leading profits, and this right wing think tank has made zero profits. So, Right wing Think tank = losers who have done nothing. Apple = World changing company who beats almost every company in the world.
 
Massive numbers of people dying from leukaemia at Samsung's factories and nobody cares about it. Massive outcry against Apple when an actor makes up stories about witnessing hundreds of child workers at Foxconn. That's life.

HOWEVER long term, Apple's strategy will be winning.

Biased media always selectively picks on Apple when there is something about factory worker conditions, but nobody knows about the news when Samsung suffers a similar scandal, like in January 2014, very recently when bloody riots erupted in a Samsung factory in Vietnam. No on hears the Samsung news, I'm tempted to say that Samsung does a wonderful job paying off most reporting outlets to avoid mentioning negative stories about their equally nasty factory conditions.

CBS News, well-known news source:
Workers building Samsung factory riot in Vietnam
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/workers-building-samsung-factory-riot-in-vietnam/


CNET News, another well known news source:
Group says it found child workers at Samsung supplier factory
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57...d-child-workers-at-samsung-supplier-factory/#!
 
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