Tim Cook Calls Apple's Irish Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

[BaldiMac]

Not going to be taking advantage of it much longer. Only two things certain in life, death and taxes.

They should have known this would catch up to them eventually.

They did know. I'm pretty sure the even put aside money to pay the taxes. Obviously, they don't intend to keep the money sitting around doing nothing forever. What the didn't know is that the EU would force a claim on money that they intended for their U.S. corporation.

The first paragraph of the EU briefing notes that Ireland gave selective treatment to Apple, allowing it to pay substantially less than others. The Commission appears to believe that what you are saying is not the case.

Correct. That's what they appear to believe.

But their argument seems to be that since Apple and a few other companies were uniquely set up to take advantage of the rulings that applied to everyone, that is the same thing as a selective treatment. Apple disagrees based on the fact that anyone could take advantage of the same rules by changing their corporate structure.

 

[Supermule]

I will say this again. Apple, pay your taxes.

Thanks.

 

[Thunderhawks]

Didn't people scream for Apple to find better business partners in 2010 after all the reports of suicides, forced morale parades, etc, were going on by Foxconn?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-iphone-factory-foxconn-holds-creepy-anti-suicide-rally-2010-8
(don't they all look happier than Barney the Dinosaur??)

http://www.zdnet.com/article/is-apples-suicide-factory-outsourcing-to-even-cheaper-chinese-peasants/
(another happy smiling person, wow... yeah, feel free not to care - unless it happens to you personally, right?)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shop-factory-workers-paid-just-1-12-hour.html
(otherwise known as "reasonable labor costs" by other MSM outlets, never forget...)

But I won't post links to videos that show all this stuff in action, you might not want to be edified to the point all them hollyweird movies look like fakes by compareeson...


Also, and you'll really love this, the US has allowed and given corporate welfare to companies that offshored to other countries for years if not decades. Obama and Clinton are against doling out the corporate welfare under those conditions but were overruled by the folk who voted NO on this list: http://www.ontheissues.org/SenateVote/Party_2005-63.htm

Also, Steve Ballmer threatened Obama with more job offshoring if he didn't get his way:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ballmer-threatens-obama-says-hell-move-jobs-overseas-2009-6

Even though other news articles dating to 2007, 2003, etc, with Microsoft already having offshored jobs and giving source code exist, like these:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/does-m...e-with-china-and-russia-pose-a-security-risk/
http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/100134488/index.htm

So, what's the issue people hate, again? Because there are so many it seems we're all getting confused, especially me.

The issue is that when governments try to force a large company to pay more than they are legally obligated to pay, there will or could be a back lash.

In the end it is always about money and somebody deciding for somebody else how much they should get of that somebody else's money. Especially governments are endless pits.

I was only responding to the $ 50 per imported iPhone threat suggestion that with Apple scare tactics and threats are not made to a powerless corporation.

Obviously smart people try to figure out a solution first before going off the rails.
[doublepost=1472756178][/doublepost]

I will say this again. Apple, pay your taxes.

Thanks.

I will say this again:

Apple IS paying all the taxes they are legally required to pay.

BTW: I am not on Apple's side here however Ireland did not pass their tax laws overnight in a dark basement without anybody knowing.
Their tax code is published as it must and if somebody is smart enough to use it to their advantage, maybe it needs to be overhauled.
To tolerate it for many years or not check into it by the EU is pretty bad governing.

If the EU is supposed to be unified they have to check all the countries and sweat heart deals with industries and corporations, plus pass legislation that makes it impossible.

And that, IS IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[Ironduke]

Tim Crook will meet his destiny

 

[gnasher729]

Didn't people scream for Apple to find better business partners in 2010 after all the reports of suicides, forced morale parades, etc, were going on by Foxconn?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...st-at-Apple-manufacturer-Foxconn-factory.html

I only looked at the first of your links, and that was 150 people in the "Apple factory" threatening suicide because Microsoft was reducing their XBox orders and they were afraid to lose their jobs because of that.

At the absolute worst time, the rate of suicides as Foxconn was quite exactly the same as the rate of retail employees in the USA being murdered at work. And I think so far 1200 people killed themselves by jumping off the Golden Gate bridge, and San Francisco refuses to do anything about it.

 

[Newjackboy]

Again, the rate wherever the use the money. They can't spend the money in fantasy land!

For example, it they need to pay for a new data center in Germany, the transfer the income from fantasy land to their German subsidiary, pay German income taxes, and use the money to build the data center.

You don't get it , do you? If they did such a transfer, why would they immediately be liable for German income tax? You don't pay German income tax for simply transferring money into Germany to build a data centre. German income taxes would only be due if that data centre generates profits

 

[Tech198]

"Apple never chooses the "easy thing" over the "right thing.""

He's got that one right..

and i'm sure Tim will go head-to-head with taxes as well.. It's good that Tm is takeing a strong arm in all of this, as Apple, but u if not right, u cannot fight the law. regardless... As stated previously, he even said he will pay back.

 

[twietee]

Again, the rate wherever the use the money. They can't spend the money in fantasy land!

For example, it they need to pay for a new data center in Germany, the transfer the income from fantasy land to their German subsidiary, pay German income taxes, and use the money to build the data center.

You don't get it , do you? If they did such a transfer, why would they immediately be liable for German income tax? You don't pay German income tax for simply transferring money into Germany to build a data centre. German income taxes would only be due if that data centre generates profits

Ya, I was curious about that, but since I usually don't transfer huge amounts of money from country to country to build data centers or else I wasn't sure how that is handled.

If that really would be the case I think I'd be rather cool about that scheme - but would also be wondering why nobody really brings that fact up imto the limelight.

 

[Newjackboy]

Hey... settle down. We don't need your fancy facts and common sense in here. Take that crap elsewhere.

Lol.

On the 1st of January 1973, the Republic of Ireland joined the European Economic Community, now known as the European Union (EU).

 

[gnasher729]

Why are people thinking that the EU has no jurisdiction? Ireland is a member of the EU and the EU has rules that supersede Irish laws. It is that simple.

That's not how it works. The EU can ask its member countries to change their laws. But it is always the laws of each country that count. So the EU would be absolutely right to ask Ireland to change its tax laws. But not to override Irish laws.

 

[AxoNeuron]

They are the most profitable company that has ever existed. They pay more in taxes than Samsung. People give more money to Apple for their products, therefore logic dictates people believe Apple products are better

Millions of people will vote for Trump over Hillary. Does "logic" dictate that Trump is better?

Give me a break.

Samsung products are factually superior in nearly every way. Apple's $650 phones are still gimped with 16GB of storage...in the year 2016! That's disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. They somehow couldn't find a way to do something Samsung (and practically everyone else) did YEARS ago. Given that the cost of a 32GB NAND flash chip is literally only a matter of PENNIES more expensive than 16GB, there is simply no excuse. Apple absolutely deserves to see their profit margins shrink, and that's exactly what's happening.

Give me a break. Apple products used to be better. Past tense. But that's no liger the case. Apple has been hijacked by a bunch of clueless Wall Street MBA's who couldn't 'think different' if their lives depended on it. These are the people who thought buying Beats for $3 BILLION was a good idea. These are the people who looked at Google's self driving car project and thought 'we could do that, wow!'

 

[BaldiMac]

You don't get it , do you? If they did such a transfer, why would they immediately be liable for German income tax?

Because it would count as revenue for the German subsidiary.

 

[vannibombonato]

Lots of people are riding the wagon of "Apple paid every tax it legally owed, it does not matter whether that was right or wrong. They were smart in using the law".

Ok then, as now the EU commission, who actually can decide what is legal and what is not legal if Ireland wants to stay in the EU (and they do want), is saying that what Apple did was not legal. It doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong for the EU to backwardly change whatever agreement: they can legally do it (they are the law), so it's ok, just as it was ok for Apple to pay less than 1% on profits made in EU.

If Apple does not like this EU political crap that you got to pay more than 1% in taxes, no one is forcing Apple to sell its stuff to a few hundred millions of Euroguys. Just write off 25% of your sales and forget about these Euro beurocrats.

Tim can and has to say that everything they did was legal. But you got to have nerves in talking about right or wrong.

 

[nocturnum]

Tim,

Take a break, count your cash, watch "Ash & the Evil Dead", then put those lawyers back to work.

If that doesn't work, stop selling stuff in Europe.

You must be a true gem.

 

[cube]

Farage, Trump, Johnson, Le Pen, Wilders, Cook, ...

 

[mossy]

In worst case Ireland may loose all the financial help they got from the EU during their crisis.

How could Ireland loose the financial help they got? You mean the bailout money we received specifically to pay back French and German banks? It went nowhere else but into their accounts. 64 Billion was handed to us (a working population of 2 million adults are to pay back those speculators debts - 8 Billion a year interest alone) to hand back over to the French and German banks. The same banks who flooded the Eurozone with cheap liquidity from 2002 to 2008 that fueled housing bubbles in Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Greece? The same banks who needed to give the big dividends to the shareholders and customers at Christmas so they could have a good time. The same banks we were forced into a bailout for - to give those same banks the money they lost on the Irish property bubble - so they could continue to pay the dividends to the shareholders and customers in the years after at Christmas so they could have a good time - off the backs of the Irish people - left destitute, hurt, shamed and disillusioned over those bankers reckless speculation? Do they have any responsibility or even shame - no?

Why did the head on the European Central Bank at the time - French man Jean-Claude Trichet threaten Ireland (our Finance Minister to be more precise) that "a bomb would go off in Dublin" (I assume an economic one) if we did not agree to the bailout? Handy having a French man there at the time to protect the reckless French banks. Very handy indeed. Funny how another French man Dominique Strauss-Kahn who was head of the IMF at the time was very sympathetic to Ireland - and was pushing for debt write downs in particular from those German banks - yet unfortunately for us he was somehow removed from his position. It's a funny old world.

Yes - I am sure the Irish couldn't care less about this stupid report from the Competition Commission. Margrethe Vestager should read up on the Irish a bit more. Dangling a carrot will to work. Party politics will be put to one side. Storm in a teacup. Nothing but petty politicking from a technocrat. Mrs Vestager was back out today lapping up her fifteen minutes of fame - having a go at Tim Cook. Almost goading him - see you in court is basically what she said. Why a press conference for that? Why not a press statement? Seems like a show to me now. It might be plausible to believe that Europe had our best interest at heart - but we know they are after one thing - the multinationals. All thats left to do is let the courts sort this out.

It's a pity Mrs Vestager does not investigate the subsidies given by the German government to the energy industry there on behalf of the steal industry. I am sure their steal industry will be able to compete and survive if they all paid full price for the energy (gas, oil and electricity) they use up during smelting manufacturing process, or maybe the fact they only introduced the minimum wage about 2 years ago - while every other country was paying it for a decade - thus making those countries uncompetitive. The average wage the Germans were being paid was €2.50 to €3.00 per hour while here in Ireland we were paying €8.00 per hour I think.

No - I don't think the EU overlords would allow Mrs Vestager to do any such kind of investigation into that sort of thing.

 

[Newjackboy]

Because it would count as revenue for the German subsidiary.

Buddy!! Time to quit for the day. Transferring money into a different country is NOT revenue. In the German subsidiary's accounts, this is a capital inflow (most likely via loan account).

Once up and running, that data centre/subsidiary will only be liable for German income taxes if it's revenues, exceeeds its costs. - i.e. If it makes any profit.


(And trust me, apple would ensure that subsidiary doesn't pay a cent income tax for years to come as it would also be paying fat interest on that loan to which ever other apple company lent the money )

 

[BaldiMac]

Ok then, as now the EU commission, who actually can decide what is legal and what is not legal if Ireland wants to stay in the EU (and they do want), is saying that what Apple did was not legal. It doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong for the EU to backwardly change whatever agreement: they can legally do it (they are the law), so it's ok, just as it was ok for Apple to pay less than 1% on profits made in EU.

Nope. The commission acts as an executive branch with the ability to originate legislative proposals. They are not the law. The law is the various treaties that created the EU. The European Court of Justice is "who actually can decide what is legal and what is not legal."

 

[alexgowers]

Sorry timmy boy. You are looking like a business chump with zero morals. You made a dodgy tax deal that was illegal and you should just put your hands up and say sorry. The more you fight it the more people will dig in a make it an issue! He really annoys the **** out of me. There is no political agenda here it's PAY TAX LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! There is no ulterior motive. Tim Cook has the outward gay rights thing down but is ****ing taking the piss out of anyone who pays their fair share. Tim no amount of pandering to minorities is gonna change that the fact you are running apple like every other blood sucking multinational but you don't need to do that! Honestly it stinks.
[doublepost=1472759014][/doublepost]

What was your Federal Tax Liability last year? Just how badly are you getting screwed?

You buy apple products and you are for increasing their tax footprint?

It's not up to consumers to enforce tax! I love apple products but they are in the wrong here to even have a dialogue accusing anyone of political gesturing when they are the ones with a massive tax loophole. They owe tax to Ireland, the EU is just enforcing proper taxation Ireland didn't do. The EU aren't punishing apple at all.

 

[BaldiMac]

Buddy!! Time to quit for the day. Transferring money into a different country is NOT revenue. In the German subsidiary's accounts, this is a capital inflow (most likely via loan account).

Transferring money from one corporation to another is revenue for the receiving corporation. There are certainly various ways to account for the money, but the net result is the same.

 

[mossy]

They owe tax to Ireland, the EU is just enforcing proper taxation Ireland didn't do. The EU aren't punishing apple at all.

They do not owe tax to Ireland. It will be proven in the European Court of Justice - not by a stupid report from an unelected technocrat.

 

[Larry-K]

You must be a true gem.

Just buy an ePhone instead of an iPhone.

You guys make those, right?

 

[nocturnum]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...faf630-6e9f-11e6-993f-73c693a89820_story.html

Obviously, Obama & Co. are dissapointed with EC's findings. Propaganda machine is already put to action, playing the 1st stanza of "The American Taxpayer will suffer".

 

[Newjackboy]

Transferring money from one corporation to another is revenue for the receiving corporation. There are certainly various ways to account for the money, but the net result is the same.

Oh boy. It would be cash for the receiving corporation. That is very very different to revenue

 

[nocturnum]

Just buy an ePhone instead of an iPhone.

You guys make those, right?

Hey, easy on those GMOs ...