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Tim Cook Calls Apple's Irish Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'
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I have no problem agreeing to a new tax structure for corporations in the US, and I don't like the way that Apple, or the other international tech corporations, evade taxes in their native countries by saying that all the intellectual properties are owned in a little black box in such-and-such a country, so a large share of the profits can go to where the taxes are lowest. But that isn't cheating Europe, or Ireland. That's cheating their home country, the US. But this arrangement began in 1991, when Thatcher was still in power, and just these sort of "sweetheart deals" were called "development policy." Where the Commission oversteps is by implying that it's a good thing to do, for the future development and employment in Ireland, to force Apple to pay back taxes for a deal that was legal when it began, and remained legal until just the other day. Now, I'm no corporation lover, but really, claiming 25 years of back taxes over something you never seem to have given a damn about until you began investigating two years ago -- would that have been because Apple and taxes started getting political attention in the U.S., and Europe went, "Oh, what about that Ireland deal?"-- that seems to be the height of unfairness. Oh, those taxes you paid, starting in 1991? Well, you should have paid double that, so fork over, doesn't seem to be just. Start it from the day of the report and I agree.
Are you really calling profit disgusting? Wealth is gross? Isn't it what we are all striving for?
Corporations want to be people, but they don't want to pay a people tax.
Umm... Apple didn't evade taxes in the U.S. and didn't move any profits out of the country. This is about funds earned outside the Americas that will mostly be taxed in the U.S. when they are eventually repatriated.
As the old cliche' says, profits are the cost of staying in business. Necessary, I think we are agreed.
It can be. It is certainly gross to love wealth.
No.
I do not know what argument you were trying to make posting that link. I surmise you were saying something about my tax point.
Anyhow....
I prefer to read facts - not opinion. You can believe that particular so-called journalist if you like.
When I read "Tax experts" - with no names I always ask myself just who are this tax experts? Do they even exist?
What am I to do with that kind of so called information? I suppose he had to write something to sell a paper or two.
If you pay attention to the article, it explains how this would be an instance of special casing, and not a typical Double Irish.
Yes, I'm sure that was an influence,...... but of course the extent of that causation is debatable.
[doublepost=1472838051][/doublepost]This whole affair has arisen because the EU in all its wisdom wish for all it's member states to have the same tax laws. They keep thinking up new treaties to level the field among their member states. They simply don't like their member states to compete with each other. They want the EU as a single market to act like a sovereign country. They want every member state to play by the same rules. A worthy goal but unfortunately they must be smoking something to think this will ever be possible given the diversity of culture, language and politics of their member states.... Simple aint going to happen. If they were to remove all competition between their member states they (the EU) would become ho hum and dwindle into obscurity within 10 years is my guess. Competition, although confrontational at times, is what keeps us thriving and promotes creativity/innovation etc. The EU should simply allow their member states more latitude in what they do for their citizens. Taxes aren't fair and never will be no matter how many tax rules/laws are developed and placed into law etc. The EU should/must lessen their grip on how their member states operate.
I think it's good that UK will be rescinding its EU membership. I did not like how the two sides in the UK fought over this decision with their 'scare tactics'. However, now that it's done I'm hoping it sends a strong message to the EU Government that they simply have overstepped and need to back off with all their rules/laws that they force member states to adopt in lieu of their own domestic rules/laws.... and I'm sure this was the underlying reason for UK leaving the EU.
Ultimately, in this case, Ireland and the EU Government will have to reach some agreement and I don't see Ireland ever agreeing to ask/request/force Apple to ante up 13B-19B euros.... nor will all the other EU member states do anything to recoup what they think Apple owes them in tax revenues to help Ireland in this matter.
In the USA, States make sweet-heart tax deals with companies to attract them to their States. It works and the competition is good. The USA Federal Govt. does not frown or object to this as each State runs its own affairs in this matter. Some USA States do not tax peoples income, but all USA citizens are subject to Federal taxes based on their taxable incomes. Some USA States impose a Sales tax which varies within the State. The Sales tax in each State is not the same. There's more to this beyond what I have said here, but the point is, we all get along with this regardless of the obvious arguments that arise.... taxes simply aren't fair and never will be.... and a tax-less society would be doomed to pre-historic times.
I just wanted to thank the reasonable and socially-conscious posters for speaking up in a forum that's often heavily populated (often hostilely) by people who are anachronistically living under Cold War anti-Soviet propaganda mindsets, blasting any pro-society act as "communism". I'm actually surprised that so many people are against Tim Cook here (as am I). I guess I confused this forum with the one at Apple Insider.
Still... The libertarian contingent is seemingly overrepresented in tech forums, often with self-focused ideologies... "one size fits all" ideology, where proponents of laissez faire capitalism fail to grasp that lucky entrepreneurs are not the model of what it means to be a human being in any society.
Don't worry, I probably won't come back here to defend myself. This sandbox is owned by whichever voices end up the loudest. I just wanted to give kudos to the commentators who's positions I respect.
Also, I know not all libertarians are crazy, selfish, antisocial jerks. Like the republican party's current leadership/mouth pieces, it's the louder contingent that makes the whole look so bad. Though when leadership gets that bad, it may be time to move on.
Still... The libertarian contingent is seemingly overrepresented in tech forums, often with self-focused ideologies... "one size fits all" ideology, where proponents of laissez faire capitalism fail to grasp that lucky entrepreneurs are not the model of what it means to be a human being in any society.
Don't worry, I probably won't come back here to defend myself. This sandbox is owned by whichever voices end up the loudest. I just wanted to give kudos to the commentators who's positions I respect.
Also, I know not all libertarians are crazy, selfish, antisocial jerks. Like the republican party's current leadership/mouth pieces, it's the louder contingent that makes the whole look so bad. Though when leadership gets that bad, it may be time to move on.
I just wish Windows didn't suck so I could ditch Apple altogether. I was somewhat of a fanboy but I'm really turned off to the company right now
Build a Hackintosh! I got fed up with Apple's ******** and garbage hardware. Built a rig for $1,300 and it runs circles around Macs that cust $4,000.
I just want to be free from Apple completely, but I know I'm stuck with them.
Apple created a stateless company.
This onshore move by Apple bumped up the GNP of Ireland by 26% and was the laugh of the international town. It was not clear what caused this to happen util the Apple blow up. Politicians tried to explain it away with the usual lies.
There is a school of thought apple will drop the appeal and pay 19Bn to avoid a further potential bill of 60Bn, play ball sooner rather than later reduce the cost.
The crazy thing is the Irish government are supporting the appeal by Apple, i.e. A Government refuses taxes.
You couldn't make this up. There is clearly another level at play here, something we don't know about. It could be agreements made between the Irish State and Apple that have yet to be revealed.
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Political, not politicized (not crap):
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-apple-politics-insight-idUKKCN1190TL
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-apple-politics-insight-idUKKCN1190TL
He said disgusting profit margins. Profit and profit margins are quite different.
No, not everyone is striving for vast wealth. Some are perfectly content just being comfortable. I'm one of them.
The U.K. has not left the EU. They held a non legally binding referendum in which the majority voted to leave the EU.
The process of leaving the EU has not even begun and once it begins will take at least two years.
Also Apple's tax "scheme" only worked because the host country was an EU member. Which allowed them to divert profits to that subsidiary.
So there is no picking a non-EU country in this.
You quote 5 paragraphs and that's the best rebuttal you have?
I stand by my assertion. If I were a betting man, I would would be very surprised if Apple ends up having to fork out a single cent this way.