Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'

[8281]

The Left promotes high taxes but runs for the hills when it hits home.

And the right promises to balance the budget and then adds trillions to the deficit. Now where did that get us? Hmmm? No where. Reciting the party line often doesn't end up accomplishing much.

 

[576316]

Don't think I've ever seen Cook so visibly angry.

 

[1458279]

Correct me where I'm wrong, this is money earned outside the US. What makes the US think they have a right to money earned outside the US? Just because it's a company that was founded in the US, the government thinks they have a right to money that was made in another nation.

Businesses watch this and that's why they are not starting up new businesses in the US.

BTW, any money given to the US government is a waste. They can't control their wasteful spending used to keep them in power. Wait till the system comes crashing down.

 

[Rogifan]

Oh shut up Cook!! Seriously stop looking like a complete idiot, everyone knows giant corporations INCLUDING APPLE dodge tax, use every single loop hole there is like setting up office in Ireland to dodge tax, I bet Your own accountant even guides you on how to personally dodge tax like the rest of them.

Just like what every citizen does. The people that need to shut up are the hypocrites here ripping Apple when they're doing the exact same thing.

The truth lies behind Cook's response. 'We pay every tax dollar we owe'

Yes, Tim. You're not being accused of failure to pay tax owed legally, rather tax owed morally. You are being questioned about the legal but immoral practices you go through to avoid paying the taxes that any company fully based and fully operated from within the countries they sell to would pay.

The way it works:
- Apple sells stuff in the UK
- Money goes to Irish subsidiary, avoiding UK corporation tax
- This happens across Europe, all directed to Ireland, where Apple signed a low tax deal

The way it should work:
- Apple sells stuff in the UK
- Money goes to Apple UK and corporation tax at the UK rate is paid on it

Another example of how it should work:
- Apple sells stuff in Italy
- Money goes to Apple Italy and corporation tax at the Italian rate is paid on it

They pay every tax dollar they legally owe.

Who decides what's moral? I can tell you right now I wouldn't want most of the people posting in this thread to decide that for me.

 

[RobQuads]

I have to hand over 40% of my earning over to the UK government.... #justsaying

But you don't then have to pay another x% to get it transfered to your bank account which is more closely matched to the Apple scenario

 

[tunerX]

Correct me where I'm wrong, this is money earned outside the US. What makes the US think they have a right to money earned outside the US? Just because it's a company that was founded in the US, the government thinks they have a right to money that was made in another nation.

Businesses watch this and that's why they are not starting up new businesses in the US.

BTW, any money given to the US government is a waste. They can't control their wasteful spending used to keep them in power. Wait till the system comes crashing down.

Its called a greedy government. The money they let you keep is called a loss in revenue.

I bought a car in Germany tax exempt. Drove it for three years in Germany and shipped it to the US when I finished my job over there. NY wanted me to pay the full sales tax on the actual purchase value of the car because I did not pay sales tax in Germany, just to register it. Took me a couple weeks to find the correct way to register so I would not pay anything.

The same thing goes for income tax for federal and some states. If you pay income tax in a foreign country and it only would have come to 5 percent in the host country and it would have been 10 percent in the US... The US or state wants that difference.

 

[furi0usbee]

Are you advocating for the US government to have the right and authority to dictate where a US company may or may not locate a foreign office or facility?

NO! Just don't lie about it when you do it. That's all.

They are researching thinner bills.

LOL apparently

 

[samiwas]

Exactly right. I bet the people bitching the loudest about Apple's tax arrangement are people who (1) have no job so they don't pay any taxes, or (2) have a job, pay taxes, but are clueless about how tax systems work. My guess is that the majority on this board are the former, not the latter. Cook is right, the tax system in the US is a total mess. It created this situation.

I'm bitching, but maybe I'm not the loudest. Not only am I employed, but my wages alone put me in the top 4% of income earners. Add in rental income and per diems, I go into the top 3%. I pay quite a bit in taxes. And, believe it or not, someone can understand how the system works and just think it's wrong.

That said, the US tax system is a total mess and lets way too much go unpaid.

Apple is playing by the rules congress wrote.

Of course. But it really helps when your friends write the rules. That doesn't mean the rules are right. It also doesn't necessarily mean that the rules are being followed as they were intended, hence the term "loophole".

The faster this issue gets hidden, snatched out of the press permanently, the better.
There are no winners, Apple's spent decades crafting an image that caters to their customers.
Nothing can stop the worshippers from genuflecting, permanently siding with their "anti-establishment" company that is perfect. Plenty of posts here confirm that fact.
Those who (again) bring this topic to light have greatly underestimated the price they will pay.
Raising Tim Cook's hackles proves just how sensitive Apple is to being revealed. Oh sure, others do it, but when it's Apple, well...

I'm not sure, but I think I actually agreed with you on something.

Cook's anger is revealing of his deceit.

True. In my experience, the people who get the angriest when called out on something, are the ones who are the most guilty.

I'm sick of Apple's unjustified margins, when they try and squeeze every last ounce from musicians. I will not forget how they tried to make musicians go unpaid for three months with Apple Music.

That was pretty damn reprehensible.

Now imagine Martin Shkreli saying the same thing in a similar position.

I thought of him right away when reading this thread.

Why would they as they've already paid taxes in the countries they are in. Governments are trying to double dip.

Have you been reading this thread...they aren't paying taxes in a lot of the countries they are in. They are using accounting voodoo to move money around to avoid taxes in most locations.

What tax are they legally required to pay that they're not paying? do you report any deductions on your taxes? If you do does that mean that you are also avoiding paying taxes?

It does if you are lying about some of those deductions.

 

[apolloa]

Cook's anger is revealing of his deceit.

It wouldn't cost anywhere near 40% to bring their money back to the States. It is common knowledge that Apple has used the loophole of Ireland's tax haven as a hiding place for all of its EU profits. Whilst it may be legal on paper, it is effectively tax evasion. If the EU deem Apple to not be observing the spirit of the law, they may decide to fine them and shut down the loophole. That would be the fair thing, in my opinion, not just for Apple, but also for the other corporations taking unfair advantage of the Irish situation.

What is total crap is Cook's continual evasion of the truth, which he has made his hallmark, first with the non-reporting of Apple Watch numbers, and now with his gross distortion of the tax status of Apple.

When you look at Apple's huge cash pile, which they have no clue with what to do but sit on, like some grotesque Smaug, and which has been stashed up thanks in large part to the avoidance of billions of dollars of tax, one has to express astonishment at Cook's amazing lack of political credibility. In a time when governments are being overwhelmed in a sea of debt and pension black holes, with recession looming and with the US's coffers starting to be drained by a just war, how the hell does Cook think he is going to win friends by losing his temper? Apple's profits are obscene, their treasure chest is obscene, the tax they pay in the EU is much lower than is the average for the EU. Not only should they have paid billions more in tax for the past 20 years, it would not even affect their long-term health if they paid the proper tax rate.

I'm sick of Apple's unjustified margins, when they try and squeeze every last ounce from musicians. I will not forget how they tried to make musicians go unpaid for three months with Apple Music. Perhaps they should donate three months of their revenue to the war against ISIS and go unpaid for three months; it's not as though it would make the slightest bit of difference to their lifestyles.

The British public want the loopholes closed and pushed MP's to speak about it. Sure the MPs 'discuss' it, claim they have closed the loopholes, but we all know the government and corporations are literally in each other's pockets, hell MP's sit on the boards of these corporations. It's a f****d up capitalist world we live in for sure...
Look at Trump, would you really trust a man who most likely back stabbed and stepped all over a fair few people to build his giant corporation empire, to run the country in a fair way that wouldn't overall benefit the corporate world?

 

[1458279]

I'd LOVE for Cook to say "We're planning to leave the US" ... Watch old Rose have a heart attack
The government is a joke. It can't educate the people, it can't stop having wars and invading other countries.

It's the government that's causing poverty. Their plan is to run the system broke then control all aspects of our lives as the solution to the problem they created.

 

[apolloa]

Just like what every citizen does. The people that need to shut up are the hypocrites here ripping Apple when they're doing the exact same thing.

What??? hahahaha oh dear... you are blinded by loyalty aren't you? Please do tell AND post confirmed proof of how EVERY citizen on the planet, (you don't specify which country), is 'evading tax', by piping their money through offshore tax safe havens...

I'll be waiting...

 

[GFLPraxis]

The solution seems rather simple. Change the tax code to close the loopholes for future revenue and leave the money currently overseas alone. Apple should not be forced to repatriate current funds with a 40% tax hit. One has to assume they would not have put that money overseas if the loopholes didn't exist.

Letting companies continue to stockpile money overseas is wrong. Forcing them to pay a penalty on money they legally placed overseas up until now is equally wrong.

If the IRS said tomorrow that charity donations were no longer tax exempt, and tried to collect tax retroactively on all past donations, there would be anarchy in the streets.

Here's the debatable thing: you say "simple enough, close the loopholes". This skips the question of "should the US even be trying to tax this in the first place?"

No other country seriously writes their tax code so that they tax companies on overseas profits after they pay their foreign taxes too.

A German company doesn't have to pay German taxes for their sales in the US. But a US company is liable to both Germany and the US when they sell a product in Germany.


Also, keep in mind that Apple has not funneled money obtained in the US out of the US. They paid taxes on every dime here. The question is about money that was made outside of the US that they've kept out of the US (taxes will be triggered if it returns here).

 

[1458279]

Look at Trump, would you really trust a man who most likely back stabbed and stepped all over a fair few people to build his giant corporation empire, to run the country in a fair way that wouldn't overall benefit the corporate world?

I love it when someone suggest that others built Trump's empire. As if they had the power to build an empire, yet choose to build it for someone else.

Wait till robots and AI take all the jobs away from these poor empire builders that are somehow smart and hard working enough to build an empire yet not smart enough to build an empire for themselves.

 

[thekeyring]

-> Cook described the tax avoidance accusations as total political crap.

-> He added that repatriating the money is not reasonable due to high corporate tax rates.

Those claims contradict each other. Apple is either avoiding tax or it isn't!

Apple earned the money abroad, so it's keeping it there (legally, not 'avoiding' anything) because to bring it back to America would mean an unreasonably high tax rate.

 

[Mr D]

You had a bitch about someone's reply about personal tax, so I asked!

Is it SO hard to answer a question?

Ignore the fact that some people are bringing in example of personal tax into this debate, but don't be a douche insulting people as though it's not relevant.

People are upset that corporations get to get away with tax avoidance that they cannot through personal tax

And these people are retarded - because corporate tax vs personal income are completely different.

The fact that this is a debate shows how ridiculous people are

 

[TouchMint.com]

Wow this is scary! Can you imagine how much their products would cost if they actually paid taxes?

$200 extra to upgrade from 16gb to 32gb iPhone

$2000 for a iMac with a sweet 5400 rpm hdd.

 

[Mr D]

Look at it this way.

If Apple (And every other company for that matter) were to pay the amount of tax that they should do, if the intent rather than the clusterf**k of a tax system was followed, then the government would receive more tax income. This in turn would enable the provision of additional public services or the lowering of the personal tax burden.

So go ahead, defend Apple.

Right because we know our government would totally do the right thing.

 

[Tech198]

In one statement cook acknowledged he had money kept overseas, but in the follow question in response to pay little or no tax overseas he thinks that's crap ?

WHy keep money overseas then ? You do this to get out of something, not just because u can for no reason.

For example, phone calls are routed to India because it's cheaper.

 

[gijoeinla]

Cook is wrong on this one. It is not "Political Crap" that they are trying to avoid taxes in the EU. It's the blame of the EU that Apple can do that and this will change in the future.

But they ARE going for Ireland - like every other big company - to avoid taxes. Now I am not blaming them for doing this but Cook should not call it ot as crap

Yes he should. The tax codes in THIS country are CRAP. He's right. And in fairness he, Google And many other tech companies pressed Congress and the President to declare a foegiveness period to lower the tax and bring some money here. THEY DID CRAP.

End of story.

 

[oldmacs]

Apple avoid Tax in Australia through dodgy loopholes. Of course its legal, but its not the right thing to do. Apple are not the only ones, so hopefully the useless Australian government will close said loopholes, rather than the budget cuts they propose due to the lack of income by tax dodgers such as Apple.

I pay my tax, so Apple (and other companies) should pay their tax, its a simple as that. If they want to operate in a country, then abide by that countries rules. However this is greedy Apple. They refused to recognise Australian consumer law for goodly while, until they got forced into it, so its not surprising they don't really give a damn.

 

[Manderby]

How is this even a topic of discussion? It's normal business in a capitalistic economy. Nothing illegal, nothing immoral, nothing unusual.

Competition is always good... there, I said it. The govs are in competition too. And it looks like the CEOs of Apple knew this the same way as many businessman did and do. It has nothing to do with cleverness or fraud, it is just plain obvious.

 

[MH01]

And these people are retarded - because corporate tax vs personal income are completely different.

The fact that this is a debate shows how ridiculous people are

No mate , YOU don't understand the point they are making.

So you believe a US company does not have to declare thier income while operating overseas..... Careful when you label others as morons and retards. I suggest you do some research on the IRS website and see how Apple is getting around this ..... This is why it's Called "avoidance" ....geez... It's in the name!

 

[lordofthereef]

Let's be honest, he's not going to go on camrea and say "yeah we were fudging the system" if that's what was going on. He is absolutely right that the tax code needs an overhaul, be that for general updating or for closing loopholes.

How is this even a topic of discussion? It's normal business in a capitalistic economy. Nothing illegal, nothing immoral, nothing unusual.

Competition is always good... there, I said it. The govs are in competition too. And it looks like the CEOs of Apple knew this the same way as many businessman did and do. It has nothing to do with cleverness or fraud, it is just plain obvious.

There is a strong push to tax overseas income in various ways. I assume (having not watched the interview myself or how it came up) that this is the reasoning behind the inuiry.

 

[scaramoosh]

OT, but is it me, or does Tim look like he's gaining weight?

Better than losing it I guess, I mean remember Steve Jobs?

 

[lordofthereef]

Correct me where I'm wrong, this is money earned outside the US. What makes the US think they have a right to money earned outside the US? Just because it's a company that was founded in the US, the government thinks they have a right to money that was made in another nation.

Businesses watch this and that's why they are not starting up new businesses in the US.

BTW, any money given to the US government is a waste. They can't control their wasteful spending used to keep them in power. Wait till the system comes crashing down.

I am not sure where I stand on the matter, but the reality is jobs have moved overseas because they are cheaper. Often (not always) they are at the expense of human health, human rights, environmental health, and a whole slew of other reasons.

The reality is that stricter/more taxes aren't necessarily set forth with the soul reason of increasing government revenue. The thing about taxes is that we can kind of tax whatever we want. We already do, to a point lol.