No, their offsea account is a shell account. They use this account only to say they earned money there to take advantage of the lower tax rate. It's legal but they are not paying their fair share.
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Tim Cook Calls Apple's Tax Avoidance Accusations 'Total Political Crap'
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So let me get your point. Apple is 67% international and you are saying they should act accordingly.
I agree.
It can't be WRONG if the laws allow it. What is FAIR is not quantifiable.
The numbers take care of what must be paid to satisfy the laws.
How difficult is it to understand that corporations only pay what is required.
Moral, fair, save the world mantras do not apply.
Singling out Apple is blindly following the hunt for a political whipping boy. ALL companies do this.
A business is supposed to make money, not worry about countries with messed up tax codes from 1794.
Of course we can say something is wrong despite the laws. You act like we're just machines without the ability to judge.
'It can't be wrong if the laws allow it"? Huh? Whaaa?
"All companies do this" so it's ok. Huh? Whaaa?
People keep saying "Avoiding" taxes. I think a better term should be "deferring". I also hear the word "Scheme" being thrown around. It's not really as much a scheme as it is a means. A means that is completely legal. They can't be forced to bring the money back and they are choosing not to at this time.
Guess what made all that profit possible.
If you believe these companies, ESPECIALLY APPLE, were as successful without the government investing into education, infrastructure, subsidies, ..., basically a tabula rasa of a country, then I have to disappoint you.
The government is only taking, never giving, we need small government and the free market will look after itself perfectly, also CEOs think a whole lot more about the general good than politicians (hint: neither of them really are, but latter are at least elected! Even though one could argue about the options presented...) and so on...
Glassed Silver:mac
At least the same rate as regular citizens. Even if you took all the exemptions you can its not going to be even close to the effective rates these companies pay which is often less than 10%. Wouldn't you love to pay less than 10%?
Why are you so against American Socialists taxing American corporations and citizens to death? Geez. You must be another one of those "people" who are against the Welfare Entitlement Mentality.
C'mon. It's common knowledge that the Socialists are obligated to over-tax Apple and everyone else so that the government has plenty of cash to dole out to unemployed welfare recipients!
Right, so in other words, they ARE avoiding taxes....legally, through a scheme that allows them to do so. Glad we cleared that up.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
That's the first time I've seen a real sincere emotion from Tim Cook.
I just wish it were about something like OS X.
I just wish it were about something like OS X.
The European Commission is a joke. Apple is a company that makes real products that people buy. Why not go after the banksters, hedge fund managers, and other financial parasites who produce nothing of value, ruin people's lives, and see themselves as above the law and paragons of virtue.
Sorry but Apple isn't doing anything that any other multinational company isn't doing. The truth is that our tax rules as it relates to money earned overseas suck. Half the country likes tax loopholes. So until there is a consensus Apple is within its rights and within the morality of what people will accept as it relates to taxes.
It's true that they just scrape off the top and literally everyone else is worse off for it.
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Actually, people get angry if they're wrongfully accused and they have strong conviction in what they're saying... It's a natural human emotion. If I kept accusing you of being a thief, trust me, you'll lose your temper too. If you didn't, I'd be convinced that you were guilty.
Nope. Apple is a business and is designed to protect shareholder and Apple values. If people want their governments to change the tax structure than they need to vote people in who will change it to the tax structure they like. Most don't even know oil companies just got additional tax breaks in that new budget plan that passed the other day. So unless you stop voting the same people in office every elections politicians will continue to cater to those with the most money even if it's to the detriment of everyone else.
It's perfectly legal for Tim Cook to fire an employee of his for being gay [Edit: in any of 27 US states]. Does that mean he has the right to do so, or the obligation to do so if that would increase Apple's profits?
The job of a lawyer is to decide if something is legal. The job of a citizen in a democratic society is to decide if something is moral and just.
The job of a lawyer is to decide if something is legal. The job of a citizen in a democratic society is to decide if something is moral and just.
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If it's legal (your admission), then it's not a 'scheme'. It's a legal tactic….. in the exact same way that when Americans donate their old things to a Charity, they are legally entitled to tax write-offs, thus minimizing the tax they are entitled to pay. When the LAW allows citizens to use strategies to have tax write-offs/deductions, they are not scheming. It's clear to me that you and the Morality Police here imply that citizens who use valid legal strategies to lower their taxes owed to the Government are "evil schemers" for using strategies that the IRS clearly allows them. That might mean people who donate their old clunker cars that they don't need any more, or make donations to their Church. I'm sure you consider them "evil schemers" because they were able to avoid paying higher taxes. Never mind that they were actually following the letter of the law.
So in summary, Illegal? Not likely. If what Google, Apple, Starbucks and Facebook etc have done were clearly illegal, they would have been fined and shut down years ago. So let's move on to Immoral.
Immoral? I'll leave that up to the Morality Police such as yourself and similar forums posters. What have you done to make the world a better humanist place this week? I'm sure you've done much more than Apple, hmm?
No it's not legal. Not in California. It might be legal if you live in Moscow.
And all this time I thought that was Obama's Job.
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Or you could look at it as taking the 40% to fund the court systems that Apple so willingly and frequently access. Or to fund the police department that Apple calls when one of their drunk idiot employees leaves a prototype phone in the bar.
Does the 40% come before or after Apple takes 30% o
Yeah... only groupthink is allowed here!!! If Apple isn't the higher power that you worship you should leave!
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Does Apple owe taxes to the US government for money held overseas? No. Therefore they owe no taxes for it and are not avoiding paying taxes. There's no contradiction. Just because there's potentially taxable actions they can take with the money doesn't mean he's avoiding taxes. It's like me saying, "Why are you avoiding spending all the money in your savings? Ah... you're trying to avoid taxes." The logic is bordering on silly.
Now, if they brought it back to the U.S. and then refused to pay taxes, you'd have a point.
You're right, it's not legal in California, just 27 other US states. I imagine Apple has employees in some of those locations. This is of course a derail, but the point is, we judge people and corporations not by what the US Federal Statue says, but according to our moral beliefs. Tim Cook supports taxation and the US government, just not when it applies to his company.
Tim Cook said:
I'm shocked at how tone deaf Tim Cook comes off on this subject. This sounds like the rantings of Martin Shkrel.
There is no such thing as an immoral and legal tax strategy. There are no "morals" involved in paying your taxes legally.