Tim Cook Calls Chromebooks 'Test Machines', Discusses Testing at Hour of Code Event

[TruthWatcher412]

http://m.aol.com/article/2015/12/03...ts-who-use-its-chromebooks-and-apps/21277303/

 

[Rocketman]

The problem being the education system is procedural, bureaucratic and top down management. In that world a Chromebook is the proper tool. Cook is leaning into an entrenched market. One might even say he is being myopic given current reality sells hardware by somebody. If I understand this right Cook could make a test app for iPad 1 devices and that would work in terms of functionality and cost and keep a whole bunch of iPads out of landfills.

 

[dysamoria]

"...in a word..."???

 

[rmatthewware]

An iPad won't get you where you're trying to go with this.

I never said it would. If you read the post I was replying to, you would see that the point I was making was that creativity should be valued over teaaching to the test.

But, if you want to go there, an iPad could certainly help in this arena. Why not have a solution where you could bring up a map of an area where you want to build a bridge, then be able to draw on the map, via finger or Apple Pencil, how a bridge with on and off ramps would look. You could illustrate lanes and how they could be adjusted to accommodate traffic at various times of the day. You could show how a de-icing solution could be sprayed on a bridge during bad weather. An iPad would allow you to do this on the fly, without having to log on to someone's computer and trying to show them on a non-touch based screen. You could beam the image to a projector via AirPlay. So, I guess an iPad could get you where you want to go with this.

 

[stewy]

Ok, I have two bridges. One designed & built by people who don't recognize the value of creativity in problem solving, and one designed & built by people who do. Which one do you want to drive over every day on your commute?

The one designed by civil engineers that took standardized tests to ensure their competency.

 

[sracer]

Let's be honest, there are two sides to this reasoning:

1. Tim has an absolute point: Of course it's crazy we're only testing students of their knowledge-by-heart, while all the accurate and up-to-date information is seconds away from you on your device.

I disagree on this point. The ability to recall facts on-demand from memory are the building blocks to increasing wisdom (knowledge applied). If a person needs to google every tidbit of information then it becomes more difficult and less effective to piece fundamental facts together to generate hypotheses, experiment, and draw conclusions.

Critical thinking skills of "digital natives" has been greatly diminished by the shift from "knowing the facts" to "knowing who to ask for the facts". The dependence on external sources for basic knowledge means that when a person is separated from those sources they can't function... vapor-lock of the brain.

Fewer minds are creating the higher-level functions that will be used by the masses. See my previous post on the "do-it" button phenomenon. Basically, a generation of people (admittedly a very broad generalization) have been raised who don't understand the fundamental concepts required to accomplish certain things in a graphics program but instead rely on specialized buttons that simply "do-it". This is why apps like Photoshop have become more popular and indispensable to many who aren't professionals. (that is just an example, but it cuts across society in general).

Cook is doing his job as the CEO of a company that has no viable alternative... attempt to reframe the debate to suit the products that the company offers.

 

[patohi]

Apple fails hard on the software side too.

Google apps, google classroom and gmail are great for students and can be accessed from any kind of device/pc...
Google offers Google admin console to manage everything as well...

What does Apple offer? iCloud and iWork? Not to mention the measly 5GB storage... Apple configurator sucks.
It makes having lots of iPads hard to manage and time consuming=expensive..


Apple just makes things too complicated and expensive for schools...

Sorry Tim but I'd give this one up...

 

[69650]

I don't see how an iPad is more creative? There's plenty of free creative apps for the Chromebook. I bought a Chromebook earlier this year to test it out and it's ok. Needing to be online all the time was a pain and I couldn't get it to work with my MS-Office files but apart from that it seemed a bargain for the price. I wouldn't use it for business but it's ideal for students who mostly only need it for online research and word processing. I didn't know they were selling so well. That could explain the downturn in iPad Sales.

 

[Rocketman]

Sorry Tim but I'd give this one up...

I think he has already.

 

[nikko1423]

Not sure what Tim is on about. What does tests have to do with the discussion? I have both Macs and Chromebooks in my household and I don't see the Chromebooks anyway less in creativity, problem solving and learning. It's a great machine for learning in fact (can't play Steam games for example). I wish Apple could consider doing something similar in the education space as Chromebooks are far more affordable and does the job..

Its not about how Chromebooks are less creative (though i do not consider them real laptops), but because right now, they are being USED as simply a machine to take online tests. Could they be used differently? Sure, but they aren't. Its kinda a testament to how simple a Chromebook is. I personally find it good that when teachers look at an iPad, they don't just see something to access the internet.

 

[nikko1423]

I don't see how an iPad is more creative? There's plenty of free creative apps for the Chromebook. I bought a Chromebook earlier this year to test it out and it's ok. Needing to be online all the time was a pain and I couldn't get it to work with my MS-Office files but apart from that it seemed a bargain for the price. I wouldn't use it for business but it's ideal for students who mostly only need it for online research and word processing. I didn't know they were selling so well. That could explain the downturn in iPad Sales.

Im guessing you haven't read the actual article? The chromebooks COULD be used creatively, but they're selling and being used simply as test machines. Literally a machine, used to take a Test.

 

[Aldaris]

Not everyone is meant for architecture, just like not everyone is meant for the hard work and studying it takes to be a doctor. We need people in society to "memorize for the test". Your professors are only speaking about architecture students, not doctors.

(I'm in Landscape Architecture grad school, so I can say this)

Then you've probably been exposed to and realize for a masters in Architecture you're looking at 10+ years with internship and all that plus all the math and physics classes too. You know at a fast pace you're looking at a decade more than some doctors.

My point being you want nice bridges, you want nice buildings, cities, and all that, you need a little bit of finger painting.

Maybe let's not use education to memorize facts that will be forgotten after the test, let's use education to inspire thinking, reasoning, logic, and creativity.

The world would have benefitted less if Steve Jobs and Walt Disney were just pumping gas. It dangerous and naive to expect everyone to fit in a cookie cutter education experience; point being exposure to what is possible and inspiration to create something better should be the goal.

 

[69Mustang]

Im guessing you haven't read the actual article? The chromebooks COULD be used creatively, but they're selling and being used simply as test machines. Literally a machine, used to take a Test.

Seems you didn't read the article closely enough. Tim Cook said they are "test machines". He said that in defense of Googles success in education. It was rhetoric. Not something to be taken as a fact.

 

[mi7chy]

Cook is not a technical person and obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. The reality is the Chromebook is far closer to a PC replacement for learning, creativity and productivity while maintaining ease of use and management capability than he claims the iPad to be. Chromebook out of the box fits between a laptop and iPad with a proper keyboard and trackpad, a better cloud based Microsoft Office suite alternative than iWorks and about a third of the cost. Another major attraction that isn't mentioned is for advanced students it's easy to dual boot a full Linux distribution for development to prepare students for the real work world where Linux powers the internet, network appliances, servers, virtualization hypervisors, embedded systems, autonomous cars, SpaceX, etc. Even Microsoft just announced Linux certification for Azure cloud platform so that should tell you something. What does iOS power besides McDonald's point of sale and kiosks?

https://training.linuxfoundation.or...ogs/lftstaff/846-use-linux-on-your-chromebook

https://news.microsoft.com/2015/12/09/microsoft-offers-new-certification-for-linux-on-azure/

 

[69Mustang]

Tim, in his typical slow speaking style, has dumbed down a very important point that could use further elucidation -- maybe more than can be done in this forum. There are things where rote learning approaches are necessary and the most efficient. In sports, for example we practice over and over to get what is referred to as muscle memory. Of course this is only one part of what is needed and any system that relies solely on rote learning will be deficient. Creativity is important in that it allows the mind to wander and wonder. This is less efficient but can produce unexpectedly positive results. Remove the rote acquired knowledge and it becomes less predictable or efficient. Bottom line is that we need to memorize things like our multiplication tables (which so few seem to be capable of these days); we need to understand the principles involved in things; we need to understand the history of things so we know what has been tried, what has succeeded, what has failed and why. With all of this, we need to allow creativity to flourish; without all this, I would argue that creativity diminishes.

Uh oh. We are in agreement again (bolded). Nice post.

I generally like Cook. As a CEO, he's turned making huge profits into an art form. That's why this BS he's pushing about education is so disappointing. I understand he's doing his job of putting Apple in the best light. But denigrating Chromebooks as "test machines" is a disingenuous ploy to avoid the truth about iPads and education. Creativity is not the answer to education. It's one part; just as testing plays a part. So does nutrition and physical fitness. Most of all, good teachers and administration. Educating is multifaceted process. A singular focus on one facet, be it creativity or testing, is a recipe for failure. Even if creativity was the only answer, the iPad isn't the "be all, end all" of creativity. Last I checked, creativity didn't start and stop with Apple. It's pretty simple to me. Chromebooks surpassed iPads in education because of a combination of cost, keyboard, and to the dismay of some in this thread, capability. Also, Google actually make Chrome for Education a priority.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

Man, there is some good, deep thoughts and views here.

I hate to dumb it down with a simple, yet seemingly true statement. For the people who can't seem to grasp the situation, or why chrome books are succeeding; the reason seems to be simple.

Some people love apple to an extreme (why one would love any company, that sole purpose is to generate revenue from the consumer, is beyond m, period. As such, they can't comprehend how any other product, made by an "inferior" company (in their eyes) could possible be chosen over, and thus more successful in an area than the competing Apple product.

The simplest reason for chromebooks success could be the cost, but there is more to it. lThe cost is what makes it appealing initially, but its the google ecosystem that really shines, and the chrome books ability to get out of the way and provide an unencumbered user experience in said ecosystem. The fact of the matter is that Apple does some things better than others, and other companies, such as google, does other things better than Apple. The industry is evolving, Apple may have unprecedented brand power, but it no longer outdoes everyone else with each of its products. It is the new reality, and is honestly good for the consumer.

My brother is a freshman in college. His whole high school used google docs exclusively, and his the entire freshman and sophomore classes use google docs. Along with that, despite whatever smartphone or gadget they own, they used gmail, google maps, google keep, etc. Google is exceeding tremendously in the areas they want to, one of those areas being it ever expanding ecosystem of apps and web-interfaces.

As an disclaimer, at this point in time, I own several Apple products, and use them almost exclusively; so no, I am not an Apple hater.

 

[2457282]

Uh oh. We are in agreement again (bolded). Nice post.

No, no we are not. We are say totally different things....

I think we may also agree that Cook as CEO is doing a great job. Cook as a politician i would not rank very high (higher than trump, but a low bar by far).

 

[mi7chy]

For anyone curious about 'Hour of Code' mentioned in the article.

https://www.khanacademy.org/about

https://www.khanacademy.org/computi...achers/a/using-hour-of-code-in-your-classroom

And, the reason why Chromebook is more popular because 'it just works'.

Do the tutorials work on an iPad?

The code editor does not work very well on an iPad, so we have developed a block-based input mechanism for the Hour of Drawing with Code, which your students can visit here. We recommend this option for iPad users.

Do the tutorials work on ChromeBooks?

ChromeBooks use the Google Chrome browser, which is one of Khan Academy's supported browsers, so yes, all of the tutorials should work well on a ChromeBook.

iPad lego block version is primitive in comparison so that explains why kids don't want to use it (compare, for example, 'Challenge: Waving snowman' section). Worse is a non-profit like Khan Academy has to spend limited resources to create a separate tutorial to work around iOS' faults.

iPad
https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/hour-of-code/hour-of-code-blocks/p/challenge-simple-snowman

Chromebook
https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/hour-of-code/hour-of-drawing-code/p/challenge-waving-snowman

 

[Technarchy]

Our teaching methods are antiquated and Tim Cook is correct.

I'm 41, and when I was a kid teachers always made it a point of saying you had to have things memorized because you wouldn't always have a "calculator" with you, as an example...

Well now you do. You will always have a computing device in your presence in nearly every job under then sun these days.

So you can waste a whole semester trying to get students to memorize information, or you can get to teaching them how to apply information more quickly and effectively.

 

[thewap]

testy, testy..Mr. Cook.

 

[sudo1996]

How can you read the article and get that conclusion?

"“I’m not a fan of teaching to the test,” said Cook"

Nothing wrong with testing, he is against teaching kids to memorise the answers - teaching to the test.

I went on a course paid for by my work a few weeks ago. The instructor basically taught this way - he just schooled us in a manner that would allow us to pick up enough points to pass the exam. It's a poor way of doing things. Sure we all pass - but the application of what we learnt in the real world will be lacking. That is what Cook is getting at.

That's not all he said or all that he implied. He's bashing the Chromebook for being a test-taking device.

Instead, Cook said that Apple is interested in "helping students learn and teachers teach, but tests, no." Apple wants to create products "that allow kids to learn how to create and engage on a different level."

 

[MH01]

Our teaching methods are antiquated and Tim Cook is correct.

I'm 41, and when I was a kid teachers always made it a point of saying you had to have things memorized because you wouldn't always have a "calculator" with you, as an example...

Well now you do. You will always have a computing device in your presence in nearly every job under then sun these days.

So you can waste a whole semester trying to get students to memorize information, or you can get to teaching them how to apply information more quickly and effectively.

How can you get people to apply information quickly and effectively of the basic information is missing ? I don't want to hire a developer that googles as they code, life is about repetitive tasks. We had a manager that would google everything in meeting to pretend he was smart, don't rely on tech to supplement knowledge and wisdom.

If you want your kids to do an arts degree, dandy, but for a science degree, the fundamentals need to be drilled in. One of which is maths.

 

[macsmurf]

How can you get people to apply information quickly and effectively of the basic information is missing ? I don't want to hire a developer that googles as they code, life is about repetitive tasks. We had a manager that would google everything in meeting to pretend he was smart, don't rely on tech to supplement knowledge and wisdom.

All software developers Google as they code. Google is pretty much a fundamental tool of the trade.

 

[sracer]

All software developers Google as they code. Google is pretty much a fundamental tool of the trade.

That is a gross over-generalization. I don't regularly google as I code, neither do the other professional developers that I work with. It certainly isn't a "fundamental" tool for us. But we'll do that on the rare occasion. That's because we're experienced and proficient.

 

[nathanonlaptop]

Wow. I don't think Tim wants to get rid of libraries. I also don't think I can "experience" the life of John Adams, the design characteristics of a turbofan engine, or the theories of Carl Jung without a book.

When I say books, I speak of Common Core learning Material. History, Engineering, and Philosophy aren't a typical component to such. I'd much rather students be focused on what you speak of instead of math and science.