Tim Cook Responds to Report on Working Conditions at Suppliers' Factories

[Will do good]

This probably won't be a popular reply, but having lived for 5 years in China for purchasing in the furniture industry, i'd like to say working conditions in China are really not that bad.

ive seen hundreds of factories from Guangdong, to Shanghai, Wenzhou, Chengdu and Hangzhou. Ive come accross one time a case of child labour. Only once. Of course we did not cooperate with this factory and made very clear they should stop this at once.

Working and living conditions improve every single year, and a lot has to do with the lack of workers in for ex. Guangdong province. If a worker is badly treated, they will simply pack up and go and work for a different factory. There are so many factories and they all desperately need workers to work for them. Chinese wages go up and the dormitories improve vastly.

I agree. I've seen China sourcing first hand for 7-8 years. Chinese worker can come and go as they want between factories. No one is putting a gun to their heads to stay at any factory.

Too many people on this forum have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[jayfehr]

Before it's said here 10,000 times I want to clarify that we all understand that other tech companies use Foxconn too. But if you want to tout your sales numbers and profits, you have to deal with the criticism too. You aren't an underdog anymore, Apple.

You are aware that the SEC requires Apple to post these numbers, right? They aren't just holding random press events and saying "Hey look, we're rich". These are for investors. If they were losing money they would still be having these exact same conference calls because it's the law.

 

[HelveticaRoman]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ns-inside-Chinese-factories-making-iPads.html

It's no use wringing your hands and saying these aren't your values when quite clearly, by letting it continue, it suggest that they aren't so alien to your values that you feel it's worth stopping. No one is suggesting that Apple is directly responsible for this (if indeed the reports in the link are true), but might they not reasonably be accused of being an accessory to it?

 

[MacDarcy]

"Accusations like these are contrary to our values" ? WTF?! Forget accusations! What about the facts? Are the facts contrary to your values Mr Cook? THAT is what matters. If this stuff is really going on, and you are just offended about the accusations - that would be really pathetic. I love Apple. Always have. But they need to DO something about this. First of all, it's horrible whats going on in those factories. Major human rights violations. Secondly, Apple will begin to be seen as one of those money grubbing monolithic companies they used to be against.

 

[jayfehr]

Tim Cook just gave away important bonuses to full time and part time employees at apple for both iPads and iMacs.
I think this has been a great way of thanking workforce for those great results.

But what about Foxconn's employees? just because they don't hold an Apple badge they don't deserve part of this bonus? Probably an iPhone spends more time in the hands of someone at Foxconn than anyone else during the selling process.

It would be great to have Apple achieve the equation shareholder's treat = stakeholder's treat.

This is a Dogma, and we know Steve's word on dogma.

Should Apple be giving bonus to Intel's employees too? How about Samsung's, since they make the memory. Apple isn't in charge of these companies, it is not their job to pay wages or give bonuses.

 

[daxomni]

What about clothes on your back were they american made. i can assure you not all of it was but instead was made in probably india by a six year old. but you still bought it.

Are you suggesting we pressure textile and clothing manufacturers to improve their working conditions? Or are you suggesting we simply let everyone off the hook?

and people bashing apple, they have confirmed they are pushing and pushing for stricter audits. but why aren't you blaming the chinese government it is them for not putting in legislation on working conditions, health and Safety protocols. laws on working conditions.

I think people are upset with the Chinese government as well. It generally takes hard work in both the political and business spheres to substantailly improve the lives of workers and consumers, no matter the location.

but its easy for you to blame apple right?

No easier than it is for you to let them off the hook apparently.

 

[jayfehr]

If Cook was so upset about the legitimacy of NYT reporting, why didn't Apple choose to answer questions on the issue any of the several times the company was asked to comment on the story?

Seems odd for them to pass on a free opportunity to tell their side of the story.

Apple never responds to the press. The make planned announcements and that is it. Steve would occasionally get frustrated and put out on open letter, see Steves thoughts on Flash, as an example. But they don't Interact with the press on a story by story basis. They never have.

 

[416049]

Couldn't agree more with the use of atrocities. These conditions make Darfur look like a Day Camp.

Covering his a**. Instead of writing letters, Tim. Do something about it. Just like Steve said he'd do something about it and did absolutely nothing to stop the atrocities. It's said that all it takes is a letter to make the fanboys happy.

Why don't you guys give him a break.... also only time will tell however usually when a CEO gives his word on something publicly things tend to change.

 

[gnasher729]

I like the way Snrub thinks!

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Can't wait for everyone to point out that suicide rates in these factories is "better" than the national average yet completely disregard the fact these people are trying to commit suicide on the job, something which virtually never happens outside of these factories in China. Downvote on!

Well, let's compare the suicide rate at Foxconn with the rate of US postal workers who are murdered by colleagues. Just check Wikipedia for "going postal".

They are so concerned they keep dumping billions into suppliers that treat workers worst than animals and follow zero environmental guidelines. Rather than getting everything built elsewhere.

Both claims that you make seem to be entirely made up. But just go to a hospital in the USA and ask the people there how many hours they are working each week. In China, environmental laws are sometimes not followed. Guess what, in the USA, environmental laws are sometimes not followed. In China, sometimes people are hired when they are too young. Guess what, I was hired and worked for a US company when I was too young (and I was glad they did, because the money was very helpful). If an audit had happened at just the right time, the Ford Motor Company would have been down for a "core violation" because _I_ worked there.

 

[hobo.hopkins]

Did we all forget the story from a couple of weeks ago when it was reported that Apple has joined the Fair Labor Association? They are the FIRST technology company to join and have given their list of suppliers to the Fair Labor Association for independent auditing.

I don't think Apple's perfect by any means, but at least give some credit where it is do.

I was going to say this. Absolutely true. Unfortunately, some people seem to expect Apple (and it would seem only Apple) to be held to an artificially high standard. These things don't change overnight; can you not see that this letter, as well as recent actions by Apple, represent a giant step forward? Or are some really ready to deny that?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I never said it wasn't bad, I'm just wondering why the attention is primarily focused on Apple and the tech industry. I never said China had the same standards, I was just curious as to how desperate these people are for employment, and what their options are.

The focus on Apple is driven by being the biggest company in the world. If they were still 1997 Apple and this kind of story came out, Apple probably wouldn't even be mentioned. Apple is now "King of the Hill" so everyone will take shots at the King. The King can then deal with such matters with lip service or tangible action. Lip service is cheap (PR spin always is). Tangible action costs more. Write down the lip service all of the presidential candidates are slinging right now. Then, see how much of that actually gets implemented when one of them is elected.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against Apple here. I do agree with some though that being King means that Apple now has great opportunities to MOST influence change. Yes, one can argue the Chinese government has big responsibilities too. But any corporation can always flex muscles that lead to pain. For example, a company like Apple could demand tangible change or "we take our business elsewhere". Saying you want to do things is one thing. Making a supplier worry they can lose huge revenues if they don't make changes is a whole other thing.

Apple's no longer the little guy. They've made it to the very top now. This is just one of the volleys that is/will be fired at them. How they handle this kind of stuff will influence whether they get to remain the King or allow someone else to eventually take their place. They've made it now. The trick forever after is how to stay up there.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Whether I'm for it or against it doesn't really matter. What does seem to matter long run, is that for as proudly, boastfully capitalist as we like to think we are in the U.S., once the wallet opens, see how ready we are to accept that our capitalist system cannot compete with a communist one when it comes time to produce the goods, literally.

I don't remember who first said capitalism will devour itself, but we're getting a clear image of what it looks like.

Makes me laugh a little at the irony of it.

 

[unclejuicyjoe]

No more talky talky

Ever since Jobs pasted away, AAPL is sure loose with the lips.... Way more leaks and statements coming from upper management.

Part of AAPL mystique was they were very tight lipped for just about everything...

 

[ucantgetridofme]

Covering his a**. Instead of writing letters, Tim. Do something about it. Just like Steve said he'd do something about it and did absolutely nothing to stop the atrocities. It's said that all it takes is a letter to make the fanboys happy.

So true..... Apple is evil and must go down now and they will because people love to destroy you when you're on top and Apple has a history of doing really stupid shet.

 

[pgwalsh]

Looks like China needs labor unions or government regulations limiting number of hours you can work. Something needs to happen.

 

[TrentS]

Take 6 months and go over there and get a job. See for yourself. We take so many things for granted here. It's hard for us to even imagine genuinely unsafe working environments, ready exposure to toxins (and no one in management caring), etc. For every story about toxic lead paint on a kids toy driving a recall, there are abundant numbers of Chinese people applying that paint (being exposed to that danger) every day. For every story about toxic drywall lawsuits, there are abundant numbers of Chinese making that drywall every day. We even find it hard to imagine working 12-16+ hour days for relatively nothing. If an American factory suffers an explosion, those that survive are probably going to get a life-changing amount of cash. When Chinese factories blow up, you never hear about survivor's getting a big fat settlement. In America, we generally assume surviving a negligent, unsafe working environment accident is a ticket to a fat settlement. I bet no one assumes that in China.

So many unemployed people in this country. You're right: China does make just about everything. It seems the simple answer to our unemployment issues is to go there and apply for those jobs. Why don't we? Why isn't there a mass exodus of Americans to China in search of jobs? Certainly, going where the jobs are is not an unknown or completely original concept. There's reasons most don't go.

If someone doesn't want to actually go try it, take a little vacation over there. See the tourist sites but try to take at least or day or two to delve off of the tourist-recommended paths to get a much better picture of what life is really like there. Even the simplest of things like clean restrooms, safe water, even electricity can be an issue off the beaten path. Spoiled by only knowing the standards of America makes one assume many of our standards exist everywhere. They do not.

Look no further than the forever flow of peoples from all over the world trying to get into America- even during this recession/depression- vs. the trickle flow of Americans trying to get out. For my lifetime, it's always been an almost entirely one-way flow. If things are almost as good elsewhere AND the jobs are elsewhere, why do they keep coming here? And why aren't many of "us" desperately trying to go there?

Maybe some of the "unfairly treated" employees of FoxConn should hire on American lawyers, and sue Apple. Since they are under the umbrella of an American corporation, maybe they can do this, I'm not sure. But if so, you'd think American lawyers would be beating down the FoxConn doors trying to find mistreated employees, and creating a case that could end up paying millions in the long run. Just a though....

 

[Stella]

I don't doubt that Cook is more concerned about Foxconn employees than Jobs ever was. This is a response to be expected - what else could he say? Cook has to defend Apple, whatever their previous position.

 

[BigDukeSix]

If anyone thought the working conditions were only an Apple problem, you must have your head buried. No doubt it is the Chinese governments problem with workers safety and welfare. If the situation was reversed, how do you think the US would respond if a Chinese company tried to pressure us to change workers rights. I am sure we would not be receptive at all. I do applaud the fact that the NY Times published responses from China saying it was a widespread problem, not just an Appple problem.

 

[bbeagle]

You guys all realize what is happening, right?

This whole FoxConn thing is a diversion to get people to dislike Apple, to eventually reduce sales of it's iPad, iPhone, etc. Never mind that pretty much all computer manufacturers use the same factories and same working conditions.

Fandroids have been saying that Apple is using suing to stop competition - well, it seems that this FoxConn thing is the competition's secret weapon. And why are the fandroids here drinking THIS Kool-aid?

 

[Stella]

Conspiracy theories and paranoia.

You guys all realize what is happening, right?

This whole FoxConn thing is a diversion to get people to dislike Apple, to eventually reduce sales of it's iPad, iPhone, etc. Never mind that pretty much all computer manufacturers use the same factories and same working conditions.

Fandroids have been saying that Apple is using suing to stop competition - well, it seems that this FoxConn thing is the competition's secret weapon. And why are the fandroids here drinking THIS Kool-aid?

 

[ThunderSkunk]

You guys all realize what is happening, right?

This whole FoxConn thing is a diversion to get people to dislike Apple, to eventually reduce sales of it's iPad, iPhone, etc. Never mind that pretty much all computer manufacturers use the same factories and same working conditions.

Fandroids have been saying that Apple is using suing to stop competition - well, it seems that this FoxConn thing is the competition's secret weapon. And why are the fandroids here drinking THIS Kool-aid?

Single dumbest post I've ever seen.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Because the Chinese government doesn't encourage many changes (labor unions are illegal in China) it is difficult for external companies to impose standards on Chinese companies... Companies are part of this discussion but no single company (even Apple) can do it alone.

If Apple demanded certain tangible changes at it's suppliers or it would take the business elsewhere, things would change.

This has nothing to do with expecting Apple to change all companies in China. This is solely about companies that Apple pays to build things doing so at standards that Apple demands. Chinese can make crappy products that fall apart on first use too, but if Chinese-made Apple products reached us and immediately fell apart, none of us would argue "that's just how things are in China" or "the Chinese government should do more".

Whatever issues exist that fall below Apple's standards can immediately rise to Apple's standards with a simple threat of "do it or we'll take the business elsewhere". It is one of the fundamental powers of being the biggest customer. None of them want to lose Apple's revenue stream. So they'll change if Apple demands it (with teeth).

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Maybe some of the "unfairly treated" employees of FoxConn should hire on American lawyers, and sue Apple. Since they are under the umbrella of an American corporation, maybe they can do this, I'm not sure. But if so, you'd think American lawyers would be beating down the FoxConn doors trying to find mistreated employees, and creating a case that could end up paying millions in the long run.

Sure, but that's not how it is. Apple doesn't own these companies. It gives Apple (and all American companies) "arm's length" protections. Besides much cheaper labor, it is a big part of why American jobs flow to China. Even if the builders of stuff are fully negligent and cause great harm, it's their problem and their legal risk.

For American companies working with such companies, it's mostly just some PR issues, which can be spun "we're working with our partners to improve..." or can be actually resolved "we've given this problematic partner XXX days to correct these specific issues or we will move our business to <other company>". PR spin is cheap & easy. Action costs more (but works better).

 

[Georgl]

"Made in China" (standing for offshoring, low wages, social and environmental standards, tariffs...) is a complex phenomenon with many aspects. Apple has an incredibly high profit margin and is one of the big profiteers. They ARE RESPONSIBLE with their cash they could CHANGE things - that's for sure!

I've worked in several production environments - it's about efficiency and not about labor cost. One of them manufactured the same products (complex electromechanical devices similar to an IPhone or Macbook regarding manufacturing requirements) in Germany, Turkey, India, South Korea and China. Germany is the core production with R&D, QM and mechanical engineering making the most demanding products (more complex, new generations) with the highest amount of automation and skilled workers with several years of experience and apprenticeships (42 months in Germany).
The wages in Germany are seven times higher than in Turkey, even higher compared to India and China. It was no outsourcing and they had among the highest social & environmental standards within these countries - nevertheless they were poor compared to their core fab in Germany. And? Costs per piece are lowest in Germany! 35h/week, 30 days of paid vacation and over 3000$ per month even for simple production operations. The founder of the company introduced the 40h/week instead of 48h/week over 100 years ago! And now? Should we accept lower standards? Why should we?

My favourite example is the metal machining - the processes used for Apple are outdated, slow and inefficient. It could be done much better in the US. But Apple doesn't want to take responsibility. They would have to hire production staff, machines - dealing with all the issues on their own. It's much more convenient to outsource all that to China...

Apple / Steve Jobs has done some risky and brave decisions regarding design and marketing - now it's time to make Apple a frontrunner in making consumer electronics manufacturing modern and sustainable again!

Until then I buy an Panasonic CF-SX1 over a Macbook Pro anytime - despite it's disadvantages.

 

[fertilized-egg]

I don't think Apple's perfect by any means, but at least give some credit where it is do.

Indeed. A telling example is this Forbes article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...-threaten-mass-suicide-over-xbox-pay-dispute/

That's a mass suicide threat from workers who make microsoft xbox. But the very first picture in that article? It's workers holding giant ipads.

I want to see things improve and these workers get better treatments. But blaming their woes on Apple just seems unfair when Apple probably is more assertive than other large USA corp. in handling the situation and every Foxconn suicide is automatically associated with Apple.

As far as I know, Microsoft hasn't done much after that mass suicide threat. Where are all the concerned online outrage against MS? Also what about all the other companies who use Foxconn like MS, HP, Samsung, Sony, etc? How come they are never held responsible even though they haven't shown much initiative to improve the situation?

I think Apple absolutely should be held responsible if the working environment is bad but most times it seems some bash Apple for these conditions just because it's just another excuse to bash Apple for the sake of it.

 

[kenbrickley]

If Apple demanded certain tangible changes at it's suppliers or it would take the business elsewhere, things would change.

If Apple were the sole customer of these suppliers then this would be true (however, that is rarely the case). If the supplier doesn't think the changes will make them competitive with their other customer's requirements they will not change so willingly. Also, the Chinese government can and does tell companies to back off if they are proposing changes the government thinks will affect their competitiveness on the global market. The Chinese government has to create millions of jobs a month in their economy to insure stability. They will not tolerate changes imposed by the "guests" in their country if they think it will have a negative impact on this ability.

That said, companies do have the ability to facilitate change and many (including Apple I suspect) are. However, there are so many gaps that the companies often have to pick their battles. Making sure that workers are paid for their overtime is more important than restricting the amount of overtime (although companies usually encourage the overtime to be voluntary). Making sure that workers are free to leave the company is a key element most companies are encouraging as this will prevent some of the worst abuses. Preventing corporal or monetary punishment of employees is a high priority. Even on the safety front they have basic safety issues they are working. I have seen companies where the fire exits are locked (for security purposes) or blocked. With such basic violations you work the issues one at a time. Even the ability to drop a supplier is often limited as all the suppliers exhibit the same behaviors. It is easy to train and gradually change the suppliers you have than it is to start from scratch with new ones.