Tim Cook Responds to Report on Working Conditions at Suppliers' Factories

[Shrink]

I guess that tells you how much Apple can actually

Horsepucky. I know that Apple can do no wrong as far as you are concerned, but if you actually believe that Apple doesn't have the power to influence their suppliers, you're blindness is of even greater proportion than I realized.

Is there no limit on your willingness (need?) to defend Apple's EVERY action.

OK, I'm a schmuck. Why do I let myself get get sucked in every time. Haven't I learned yet?

Uh oh, I'm talking to myself again. This guy is making me crazier than I was before.

 

[GQB]

Couldn't agree more with the use of atrocities. These conditions make Darfur look like a Day Camp.

What a moronic statement.

 

[totalmeltdown]

Did we all forget the story from a couple of weeks ago when it was reported that Apple has joined the Fair Labor Association? They are the FIRST technology company to join and have given their list of suppliers to the Fair Labor Association for independent auditing.

I don't think Apple's perfect by any means, but at least give some credit where it is do.

This is talk. All talk. Look into how the fair labor association came to be and who supports it, then ask yourself if any credit is due.

 

[Winni]

Great attitude here, Tim Cook. This is the type of CEO needed to run a company as large as Apple, someone not afraid to give his personal word: "On this, you have my word."

Yes, he spoke like a true politician. Nice and shallow phrases, nothing definite, no CLEAR commitment to anything, nothing you could actually nail him with. Only some basic rhetoric that makes you sound and look good without actually saying anything relevant.

On WHAT does anybody actually have his word? Right: They want to "look deeper" into this. But did he give his word on a real course of action or a promise that they really want to change anything or switch suppliers if they fail to improve their workers' conditions? No.

Sorry, but I've been too long in the mill to still buy into cheap and empty corporate talk.

 

[GenesisST]

Sorry if this has been said before, don't feel like reading everything.

The problem is not money, it is productivity. The demand for iThingies is so high and manufacturers (AKA the people) can only produce so much. Even if you give more money to the people, they can increase productivity only so much, after that it is just frustrations and a visit in the Foxconn safety net...

I think the plant in Brazil is a good step as it will alleviate the pressure that the same manufacturers face over and over again.

 

[ichrisg30]

.

 

[Ryth]

But what about Foxconn's employees? just because they don't hold an Apple badge they don't deserve part of this bonus? Probably an iPhone spends more time in the hands of someone at Foxconn than anyone else during the selling process.

Never seen such back-@$$wards logic in my life.

So if you are say a computer programmer, when you get a bonus, do you go out and give part of it to say Apple or Dell or HP... because you know...you wouldn't have gotten that bonus without one of their machines to code/test on? So your success was in part due to those computer makers.

If you are a restaurant...do you go out and give part of your earnings to the farmers going out and picking your food? I mean because you know..those vegetables and fruits spend more times in the hands of farm labor then anyone at the restaurant/chef.

You pay the vendor for their goods and that's it. After that your success or failure is up to you and you owe them nothing and they owe you nothing. With your logic, you'd want them to give you your money back if your failed in your business venture since you want them to be able to share other's success.

Their 'bonus' is getting the sheer amount of work from Apple. The better Apple does, the better they do. I'm sure they are just fine with that.

God your logic is so stupid it's mind blowing.

Oh for F&%^$' sake. Really?

I know really? Some of these people are just clueless. They need to get out of their basements and go see what it's like in parts of America.

 

[Thunderhawks]

What about clothes on your back were they american made. i can assure you not all of it was but instead was made in probably india by a six year old. but you still bought it.

and people bashing apple, they have confirmed they are pushing and pushing for stricter audits. but why aren't you blaming the chinese government it is them for not putting in legislation on working conditions, health and Safety protocols. laws on working conditions.

but its easy for you to blame apple right?

The people giving minuses for this post for the most part have no idea what they are talking about. They respond to sensationalism of the media.

For starters why is it anybody's business but the Chinese government (run by the people for the people yeah right) to put in legislation to get up to par with other civilized countries?

Apple and other manufacturers can help forcing issues, but the Chinese government wants the dollars in the country, so they do very little not to rock the boat.

There are so many issues as others have posted that they are still a developing country with all the headaches.

From over population to not having enough workers was the first step.

The rest will be changed by market forces. Not overnight by Apple

 

[Rocketman]

A couple dozen companies use Foxconn to fab yet the news fixates on Apple, presumably because rumor sites so publicly discuss specific vendor names. Other manufacturers do not have so much widely known public disclosure.

Also the workplace is evolving in China and they are at least 50 years behind us, despite folks like Apple bringing best practices there as quickly as possible.

This will be a process.

I take special interest in the suicides. We have a lot of suicides right here in the USA and while most of them occur at home, not work, that is because folks don't live at work like the Chinese factories have. I would be curious about suicide rates of "workers" here, "students" here who do often "live at work" and see those figures as compared to factory worker suicide rates in China and general population suicide rates in China. I am thinking the media fixating on this issue is happening is a very disproportionate to any fact.

Rocketman

 

[ktappe]

Covering his a**. Instead of writing letters, Tim. Do something about it. Just like Steve said he'd do something about it and did absolutely nothing to stop the atrocities. It's said that all it takes is a letter to make the fanboys happy.

It is a pity you got downvoted by the fanbois, but you are dead-on correct. Tim is in a unique position to do something about the working conditions in China and instead he defends Apple.

And before you all accuse me of being an Apple hater, I've been using Apple products longer than most of you have been alive. I just want to be proud of the company I've supported all these decades. And I can't be with the attitude Tim Cook is showing. I want him to go to Shenzhen PERSONALLY and inspect things, not write defenses from his ivory tower.

----------

The rest will be changed by market forces. Not overnight by Apple

Apple is the biggest market force you will find on the planet. They could change this. To claim otherwise is to stick your head in the sand.

 

[you people smh]

So let me get this straight...

yesterday nobody here believed the former execs because they were trying to make the company look bad because they were FORMER execs.


Now today the current CEO puts out a feel good statement which everybody accepts as gospel in spite of the fact that he's the current ceo and would say anything necessary to make the company look good.

hypocritical much?
downvote away.

 

[Flood123]

I agree with what a lot of folks are saying. There are TONS of companies using companies like foxconn to manufacture their products. If there is something fishy going on with working conditions, Apple is not the only guilty party. They are just currently the biggest target for anyone looking in on the issue. It doesn't excuse anything though. Whatever the answer is to this problem, if for public relations alone, I would imagine Apple will figure something out.
I realize it's unlikely because of the bottom-line but it would be pretty cool to have an apple product that said "Made In The USA" on the packaging. Bringing some some of those jobs would be awesome for this country. The PR points alone would be worth a fortune.

 

[roocka]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

I can't wait till Apple can replace these people with robots. Then you can all stop complaining about how poorly they were treated and start blaming Apple for getting rid of human jobs.

 

[Nunyabinez]

Having watched and participated in some of these discussions I have to say what I see sickens me, and I think I am going to just bypass the comments to these articles from now, because of the incredible ignorance of the majority of the people posting.

But what is even worse, is the incredible arrogance of Americans. I am a white, conservative male, going on 50. I love America as much as anyone, but I can't believe the nerve and arrogance of my countrymen. Many of these posts show just how imperialistic we are. People here believe their values, their morals, their culture is superior to the rest of the world and are criticizing one company for not doing a good enough job of forcing our values onto another nation. What gives you the right to tell a sovereign nation how to govern its people? And what do you think gives the right to a single business to try to force practices on other country's businesses?

Now certainly, any company could decide not to do business with another business if they didn't like how the business conducted itself. But that is a far cry from permanently stationing auditors to make sure that they are complying with your regulations.

In Germany, they have way more holidays that does the US. How would you feel if you were a supplier for BMW (among other manufacturers) and they told you that unless you took the same holidays that they did they wouldn't buy from you? And how would you feel as a worker if your pay was cut since you couldn't work the same hours as other American workers? Would you be praising Germany for their progressive thinking? No, you would tell them to mind their own business, because what they think is their "do gooding" is screwing you.

Guess what? Most of what people are complaining about here are the willing choices of both the workers and the companies in China. Cutting hours, moving factories back to the US, etc. aren't going to do anything but screw Chinese workers, so don't expect any thank you when they are back planting rice in the mud so that their job could be done in the US by robots.

Nike faced a similar problem where when they fired child workers the vast majority became either thieves or prostitutes. So they worked out a deal where children worked in the factory part of the day and Nike paid teachers to educate them so that they could have better jobs someday.

But I digress. While I condemn terrorism in the world, it's not hard to understand why jihadists hate us so much. It's because of the people here who think the American way of life needs to be forced onto all other nations. You can see how pushing our values, culture and morals worked in the Middle East. I wonder how 1.3 billion people are going to take to our exporting of American values to China.

 

[Swift]

Not saying it's good

But this is what comes, significantly, after a few blowout, record-making quarters. Suddenly, they come looking for you. Suddenly, the conditions in China are identified with your company, even though, you know what part of the computer industry ran to China first? Well, remember the IBM PC? First it was made in US factories, then Compaq won the right to produce to spec, then all the American players were replaced in manufacturing. That's what you do according to the Wintel business model. The manufacturers have nothing to sell except price. All very similar. Low profit margins.

This is what Michael Dell went with. He was the smart guy, remember? He'd have sold the pieces of Apple and closed the company.

Apple had robot factories assembling Macs in the US, and employees made middle-class wages. Next had the same thing going on. When Jobs came back, the factories were done. No way to compete unless you go to China. Remember the number-one knock against Apple? Price. Jobs brings out the iMac, and the number-one innovation in it, often forgotten, was that you could buy a Mac for $1,200, not $2,000.

 

[Rocketman]

For those that don't know, Apple has scores of folks at the factories themselves overseeing quality, workplace evolution, and yes, it is a process. Tim going there personally would be a photo op. Apple workers living there and working everyday to make things better are 100x as powerful and valuable.

Apple is not the only customer for these factories. In the minority actually. They are just more open to the discussion and more open to actual practical solutions. So don't attack the actual situation improver.

Rocketman

 

[Nunyabinez]

You pay the vendor for there goods and that's it. After that your success or failure is up to you and you owe them nothing and they owe you nothing. With your logic, you'd want them to give you your money back if your failed in your business venture since you want them to be able to share other's success.

I know. Like what would happen if I told Walmart that because they are a supplier of my household goods I was going to give them a list of rules that they should follow and I was going to post an auditor to verify they followed them. That would go over big.

Or more accurate if Walmart told GE how much they should pay their employees. Like that would happen. But since it's Apple and China, yeah tell them what to do.

 

[gnasher729]

So let me get this straight...

yesterday nobody here believed the former execs because they were trying to make the company look bad because they were FORMER execs.


Now today the current CEO puts out a feel good statement which everybody accepts as gospel in spite of the fact that he's the current ceo and would say anything necessary to make the company look good.

hypocritical much?
downvote away.

Not hypocritical but capable of independent thought.

One set of executives have not given their names, they claim that they can't give their names because they are still under some NDA, and let's just face it, any former executive is kicking themselves for leaving Apple because they would have an awful lot of valuable share options if they had stayed. These guys have no responsibility; they can say whatever they like without damage to their reputation if things turn out to be untrue.

Tim Cook on the other hand _does_ put his reputation on the line here. Not only his own reputation, but the reputation of hundreds of Apple employees who are directly involved with the supply chain.

Apple is the biggest market force you will find on the planet. They could change this. To claim otherwise is to stick your head in the sand.

Claiming that Apple isn't working on this, and hasn't achieved a lot in the last years, is wilful ignorance. Just as an example, the number of employees found to be hired at ages less than 16 years has dropped down by a factor ten, after Apple got rid of one supplier that apparently didn't care, and after others do more careful age checks.

Tim says the "accusations" are contrary to their values, not the working conditions...probably just a typo...either way, they will work with their suppliers to change things or not - we'll see what conditions are like in a year...heck, let's see if anyone thinks about this next week.

Apple will most certainly think about this next week. They have started five years ago with audits and working hard on rectifying problems, and they will continue doing so. There is of course one problem: When Apple puts a report about their findings on their home page for everyone to see, and the Times article uses very selective quoting to make them look as bad as possible.

 

[Slurpy2k8]

Couldn't agree more with the use of atrocities. These conditions make Darfur look like a Day Camp.

Yes. Foxconn certainly makes mass genocide (look up the word genocide, I have a feeling you need to), mass rape, mutilation, the torching of entire villages, slaughtering of family members in front of their loves ones, militias purposely handicapping people by chopping off limbs, displacement of hundreds of thousands of people, look like a 'day camp'.

I'm trying very hard not to say something nasty to you, because I've been banned more than once for calling people out on blatant stupidity. But here's some advice: Get out of your basement and learn a thing or two about the world-or at least do a quick google search before spouting such garbage, because it's insulting to all those who are forced to read it. Why the need for such extreme sensationalism and misrepresenting, it in no way helps anyone get to a real, tangible solution. I guarantee you conditions in Foxconn would not make a top 100 list of worst human conditions on the planet. To compare it to carnage in Darfur, and even imply is much worse, is heinous, and grotesquely ignorant.

 

[mrjosh]

Tim says the "accusations" are contrary to their values, not the working conditions...probably just a typo...either way, they will work with their suppliers to change things or not - we'll see what conditions are like in a year...heck, let's see if anyone thinks about this next week.

 

[BigDukeSix]

It is curious that this all comes out right after Apple kills it and their stock price shoots through the roof. No doubt the anti-Apple folks don't like seeing the greatest company in the world doing so well, so they get a story out there that makes Apple look bad. Of course, as we all know, working conditions in China are bad for everyone, and the tech companies produce stuff for everyone, not just Apple.

 

[chirpie]

You know, I used to think that line in Spiderman was completely lame.

"The one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will hate you."

But how about that, it comes true everyday.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I know. Like what would happen if I told Walmart that because they are a supplier of my household goods I was going to give them a list of rules that they should follow and I was going to post an auditor to verify they followed them. That would go over big.

Correct, because you would be a insignificantly tiny threat to Walmart if you decided to take your business elsewhere. Walmart wouldn't even notice if you did that starting today. Try it. Boycott Walmart for the next week and see if you get a call from Walmart worried about their relationship with you.

Now, if you were much/most of of Walmarts buyer revenue and you demanded changes or you would take that revenue elsehwere, do you think Walmart would react? Do you think that would go over big?

Or more accurate if Walmart told GE how much they should pay their employees. Like that would happen. But since it's Apple and China, yeah tell them what to do.

It's not Apple and China. It's Apple and its manufacturers which happen to be in China. No one is telling all of China to change. Even Apple- the biggest of them all now- is not THAT big. But Apple could easily lay down a demand that if certain changes are not made (and, by the way, I don't think the main changes desired are about how much someone is paid) by XXX point in time, Apple will take all the revenues they flow to a company to some other company. Apple to their suppliers would not be like you (or me) to Walmart. Their suppliers would notice- even feel great pain- if Apple took their business elsewhere.

Note how Apple is simultaneously suing a key player like Samsung and working in partnership with them as a supplier. As many say, Samsung could just tell Apple to go jump in a lake and turn off the supplier partnership part in protest of the various legal actions. So why doesn't Samsung do that? The massive revenues Apple flows to Samsung are too important to Samsung. They put up with the lawsuit pain to keep a huge customer's revenues coming in.

Now, Foxconn is MASSIVE but there are many smaller suppliers that feed into the supply chain. Not all of them are Foxconn or Samsung-sized. In some cases, Apple might be MOST of their revenue stream. But even a Foxconn or Samsung cares enough about ongoing revenues streams from Apple to NOT want to see that business go somewhere else.

Besides, the issue is not about dictating how other companies should run their businesses. It's actually about PR spin vs. tangible action. No company should be able to dictate to another how that other's business should be run (Apple included). I don't perceive anyone is arguing that Apple should be given that power either. The main idea is that if some company doesn't approve of how a supplier is doing business, they can either spin it via PR messaging (and do nothing or little) or threaten- or even change- suppliers to (much more likely) motivate action.

What some read here is good PR. What some are not seeing is the "teeth" behind that PR. Apple's teeth are now bigger than anyone elses. Do they actually want to take a real bite out of this issue?

 

[DanteMann]

Absolutely despicable. This isn't even the first time that Apple has come under fire for horrible working conditions. Bottom line: Nobody Cares. Not Apple or its blind followers. Apple only cares to push, push and push some more. And the blind followers are more than happy to accept the same garbage response that comes out of Apples greedy corporate mouth. I just love how Apple just has to say, "We Care" and it's good enough for it's legion of blind followers. Anything to justify their support for such a despicable company that employs more people outside of it's country of origin, while it's own country is suffering so bad economically. Especially Americans. You have the biggest company in the world, and it employs more people outside your country and continues to expand manufacturing outside America. Despicable. Even Samsung has more faith in the American people by manufacturing in Austin.

 

[Slurpy2k8]

Absolutely despicable. This isn't even the first time that Apple has come under fire for horrible working conditions. Bottom line: Nobody Cares. Not Apple or its blind followers. Apple only cares to push, push and push some more. And the blind followers are more than happy to accept the same garbage response that comes out of Apples greedy corporate mouth. I just love how Apple just has to say, "We Care" and it's good enough for it's legion of blind followers. Anything to justify their support for such a despicable company that employs more people outside of it's country of origin, while it's own country is suffering so bad economically. Especially Americans. You have the biggest company in the world, and it employs more people outside your country and continues to expand manufacturing outside America. Despicable. Even Samsung has more faith in the American people by manufacturing in Austin.

Please make me a list of the laptops, smartphones, and tablets you use. Now. Or, advise me to which company I should switch to, that is doing more than Apple in regards to the conditions in China. As a 'blind follower of Apple', I'm patiently waiting for you to enlighten me as to the more 'moral' companies to support. Because I haven't heard a damn peep from anyone else, who use these very same factory, and much worse.

Again, I'm waiting for you to prove you're more than a mindless troll.Because according to your post history, where you spend an inordinate amount of time on an Apple board bashing Apple's products and championing Android (I wonder where those phones are made? ), that's exactly what you are. Then you make this fake outrage, pretending you're disappointed in the company that you've always hated with a passion? What a sad, pathetic life you must have to compel you to do this, day in and day out.