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I've said this before, but the physical shift between keyboard (external) and touch screen is cumbersome at best, slows productivity and is confusing. Microsoft, in pushing this, is going completely against what they promote, that they're the company that focuses on productivity. I call bs on that. It is anything but more productive and they're being foolish to keep going down this path.

I think one thing that would help is if Apple would stop pandering to 14-year-olds and replace the smiley face on the iOS keyboard with a Command key. They could also throw in the Option and Control keys while they are at it. Heck, they should have keyboards in iOS that mimic all of their other keyboards (MacBook, wired keyboard with the numeric keypad...). They control the software and the hardware. It shouldn't be that difficult for them. iToys.
 
Why? If I remember right the A9 has caught up to the i5 processor. It's all the other things around the main processor that make a workstation so powerful.... not just the processor.

No, the graphics chipset in A9 devices has caught up with the integrated Intel graphics built into the i5. The actual processor portion isn't close when you compare like operations, and the graphics "parity" is only when compared to the embarrassingly slow performance of the integrated Intel graphics. When there are consumer graphics cards with well over 100x the computational power of Intel's integrated graphics, there is no respectable reason to use that as a benchmark.
 
I have 2 touch screen PCs. One is an HP Flip, and the other is ASUS Ultrabook. I have no problem using touch on the desktop side of Windows. It's not perfect, but 95% of the time, my touch input is accurate with my finger. And Windows icons and menus are smaller than on OSX. If anything, OSX is much more touch friendly than Windows.

So I don't get the agruement that everyone is claiming, that OSX is not touch friendly. With only some minor OS changes and app updates, OSX can easily become optimized for touch.
 
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No, the graphics chipset in A9 devices has caught up with the integrated Intel graphics built into the i5. The actual processor portion isn't close when you compare like operations, and the graphics "parity" is only when compared to the embarrassingly slow performance of the integrated Intel graphics. When there are consumer graphics cards with well over 100x the computational power of Intel's integrated graphics, there is no respectable reason to use that as a benchmark.

I don't know about that. The integrated GPUs in Skylake are pretty stout, matching the power of most entry-mid level discrete laptop GPUs. If you look at gaming benchmarks on even the entry level Core M3 SP4, you'll see that they hold their own on quite well up til this most recent generation of games. And even then they surprisingly well considering what they are.
 
I agree yo don't buy a Mac to run Windows but it is useful to be able to run some programs in a VM. I occasional fire up Parallels to test a document in Vision or access a website that only works in IE. Keeping compatibility would likely be a selling point in business apricots where a Windows only program is mission critical.

I was think more along the lines that *IF* Apple was thinking of moving the the ARM platform across the entire Mac line they could, since they control the architecture, look at adding in what is needed for reasonable x86 emulation. Not games, but non-graphics intense business applications. That's a big if, however; but one I'd entertain as a possibility simply given Apple's seeming desire to control all aspects of the Apple ecosystem and the core processor for the Mac line is one area they are dependent on an outside company for the roadmap.
Typically to emulate another architecture in software the one doing the emulation has to be significantly faster then the one being emulated. Sadly Intel isn't licensing x86 anymore.
I think we're heading for a single powerful ARM-based OS that can run on all devices: phones, tablets, laptops, and desktops. Apple can drop Intel and take full control of developments.

The claim that ARM chips can't match or beat x86 chips is nonsense. Apple doesn't need years to catch up: the know-how and technology exists today. Just a matter of technical refinement and commercial judgement.

Spent the last week on a series of lectures in London. Saw thousands of students and walked past a ton of coffee shops and eateries where people were pounding away at their devices. Most people were using laptops or phones. Only saw a small number of tablets. Of the laptops, phones, and tablets, virtually all of them were Apple devices. Perhaps ten Windows laptops at most. There is no meaningful future for Windows products.

For me, a laptop and phone are the perfect working combo. I have an iPad, but won't replace it when it dies. I don't care if the laptop runs OS X or iOS, I just want the laptop form factor and the functionality of OS X. If iOS can be made to match OS X, that'll be fine by me. Don't want legacy x86 software, and certainly no need or desire to ever run Windows or Office.

Don't want a touchscreen device with an add-on keyboard. If using the device like a laptop, navigation is too hard and slow without a trackpad or mouse; and the screen is a pain to use ergonomically, and a pain to see with all the finger smudges.

A tablet with a keyboard is a sudo-laptop. iPads (and especially iPad Pros) are already a two-in-one converged devices: with keyboards, they are sudo-laptops; and without a keyboards, they are tablets.

Maybe OS X and iOS won't be converged as such. Perhaps one will be dropped entirely, or they will both be replaced with a new hybrid iOSX.
See my point being made for me, why did Apple go with Core M in the rMB if the A8X is so powerful?
I used to be in the "don't understand a touchscreen on a laptop" camp. Then, I started to use my Surface Pro 3. Had to ditch it for a while because I needed a laptop with a dGPU for some graphics programming I do in my consulting business. I got a Quad Core i7 with a Quadro GPU, but the laptop didn't have a touchscreen.

I was boggled at how often I would want to scroll or pinch zoom with the touchscreen, it just is more natural sometimes.

What Apple doesn't realize is that there are a LOT of younger people who are growing up with iPads and iPhones who suddenly think everything needs to be touch friendly.

My little 5 year old touches everything, and a computer with just a mouse and a keyboard is suddenly alien to him. But my Windows 10 machines (with touchscreens) are easy for him to adapt to. It's been interesting watching him as opposed to my older children.

By making the touch devices so ubiquitous, Apple might have created an interesting problem.
That is both my children, and makes perfect sense.
 
Then why are iPad sales declining when iPhones, Androids, Macs, W10 hybrids are all growing? Apple dropped the ball on the iPad. Trying to milk thinness instead of functionality. The IPP is proof that Apple realizes it needs to change.
Sales of cheeseburgers are on the decline too. Is THAT connected to sales of the Surface?
 
Apple doesn't want to make it because why sell 1 device when you can sell 2. It's not because people don't want it, plenty of people want it. You don't know how many times someone says to me that they are tired of carrying around an iPad and MacBook and wish they had 1 device that did them both. The iPad Pro and the MacBook are what don't make sense. The MacBook is an overpriced NetBook that basically does what an iPad can do. The iPad Pro is a NetBook that doesn't run a desktop OS and has a very awkward keyboard. I don't know anybody that could use an iPad Pro for all their work, unless all they do is write emails and do work processing.

I want a device that has the body of the new MacBook but with a screen I can detach and use as a touchscreen tablet or computer. They should have iOS and OS X separated, not a unified OS, and be able to switch easily between them and handoff my work between an app running on iOS and OS X. The keyboard should be wireless so I could mount the screen on a stand if I choose.

This would really be the ultimate travel device.
 
I have 2 touch screen PCs. One is an HP Flip, and the other is ASUS Ultrabook. I have no problem using touch on the desktop side of Windows. It's not perfect, but 95% of the time, my touch input is accurate with my finger. And Windows icons and menus are smaller than on OSX. If anything, OSX is much more touch friendly than Windows.

So I don't get the agruement that everyone is claiming, that OSX is not touch friendly. With only some minor OS changes and app updates, OSX can easily become optimized for touch.

i feel the exact same way. i mean, just look at any 13" mac and imagine pointing a finger at any menu item/icon on native resolution. also doubt a fraction of a percentage here use a wacom for the same thing: with an apple Pencil this would be a dream.
 
In the last quarter, MS reported that Surface sales are DOWN 25.99 percent y-o-y.

Enough said.
You mean the quarter before they announced the SP4? Just like when iPhones slow down before the new ones come out? This is your "Enough Said" point? Lol
 
I fully expect there's a prototype device running both as we type at some secret Apple test lab.... especially for usability purposes. This is a route Apple have absolutely experimented with and feel at this time, the software combined with the hardware just doesn't work as well as they'd like.
 
Really? A huge disconnect? Yet every one of those customers has opened their wallet to help make Apple one of the most successful companies in the world. Just look at Apple's numbers.

Why should he get "new advisors" when Apple's financial performance has been staggering, by any metric.

If Cook ran Apple based up on the opinions of public forums, or MacRumors, that would be a sure-fire path to driving the company into the ground.

Apple is doing incredibly well without that kind of assistance.
That is entirely based on the iPhone. But the iPad has been declining for many quarters. That is what is being discussed here.
 
What is a pencil mouse?



I disagree. Hence why I'm scratching my head wondering why people want such a device from Apple.



It's easy to have high percentage growth when you're basically starting at nothing.

Basically what happens when Tim Cook gets on stage and brags about mac sales.
 
You mean the quarter before they announced the SP4? Just like when iPhones slow down before the new ones come out? This is your "Enough Said" point? Lol
In 1 quarter, Apple sells more iPads than MS has sold Surfaces in 3 years. The Surface has a tiny market.
 
I can agree, but the cost can be significant. Especially when you are factoring in the iPad Pro, as per this discussion. You could do the same with the phone without the iPad. Just not the same user experience.

The point is... you can manage that cost too. Upgrade what you want... and also take advantage of what's hot.

The bottom line is, I just don't like the "all-in-one" concept (for many products)... you almost always you have to compromise on something and I like having choices.
 
Typically to emulate another architecture in software the one doing the emulation has to be significantly faster then the one being emulated. Sadly Intel isn't licensing x86 anymore.

The general consensus is that your physical CPU has to be at least 3x as fast as the CPU its emulating to run smoothly, and that's assuming that your emulation code is as efficient as you can possibly get it, without any overhead whatsoever.

Apple's made HUGE strides with ARM over the last couple of years, but they're only now starting to match Intel's low voltage offerings. They've got a ways to go before they can say that claim you can get native performance through x86 emulation without chewing through a battery in an hour.
 
In 1 quarter, Apple sells more iPads than MS has sold Surfaces in 3 years. The Surface has a tiny market.
Of course. But how about the ENTIRE hybrid W10 market? The OEMs are selling hybrids like hotcakes. Surface paved the way.
 
What is a pencil mouse?



I disagree. Hence why I'm scratching my head wondering why people want such a device from Apple.



It's easy to have high percentage growth when you're basically starting at nothing.
You really can't understand a simple joke about similar input devices? or how the apple "pencil" and a mouse work?
 
Wait, but isn't that basically what an iPad Pro is with the smart keyboard (or a kickstand of some sort)? Last I checked it doesn't have mouse support, so you will need to raise that arm to scroll content right? Yet somehow the experience there isn't ****, somehow it is a wonderful experience. So where is the disconnect coming from?
Delusion? Because that experience is **** as well, even more so because the iPad Pro does not have an adjustable tilt angle.

By the way: you might have noticed that Microsoft included a trackpad in their Touch Cover keyboards for the Surface. Guess why.

Surface sales declined the quarter before the SP4 came out. Very normal.
So did the iPad sales. And you might have noticed that I also gave the peak revenue Microsoft got from the Surface. It never came even close to what Apple achieved.

Also, you can't just look at Surface sales. Hybrid 2-1 W10 devices are made by name OEMs and sales are booming.
…and yet the projected sales* for 2015 still are dwarfed by the total tablet sales (ca. 22 million units vs guesstimated 230 millions) and also by the classical "clamshell" laptop, that according to the same Gartner analysis that predicts the rise of the hybrid device will still be making up 87% of the mobile PC market in this year, and is also prognosticated to dominate the market for the coming years.

(* And it's interesting that suddenly an analyst's word has suddenly so much worth when it's usually dismissed here when it comes to Apple related predictions…)

My point stands firmer than ever: the hybrid market is miniscule.
 
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The compromise now is that you almost have a full computer with an iPad, but don't. If the tablet had the ease of iOS use along with the PC ports, I'd buy one. But like the Woz said, the tablet is a limited device - good and bad.
But don't forget that at the same time, the MacBook Airs have been getting smaller and smaller, lighter and (Jonny Ives Akbar!) thinner! Did I mention thinner and lighter? So the Mac laptops are closing the gap with the portability profile of the iPads.
 
They won't do it now, but they will eventually. That will happen once hybrid laptops become the norm. If Surface Book becomes a success, and there is nothing that says it won't (it's completely sold out everywhere and has a 4 week back order list), other manufactures will start making hybrid laptops because people will demand it. Apple will no have other choice but to follow. Same thing happened with an iPhone and the iPad. Eventually, even Apple has to follow the demand of the market.

If you think Apple won't make a hybrid laptop (ala Surface Book), you don't understand how economics work.
 
Typically to emulate another architecture in software the one doing the emulation has to be significantly faster then the one being emulated. Sadly Intel isn't licensing x86 anymore.

See my point being made for me, why did Apple go with Core M in the rMB if the A8X is so powerful?
That is both my children, and makes perfect sense.
Not only children. My mother never used a zoom feature on her machines trackpads until she had a touchscreen and uses it constantly. touching a screen is much more intuitive than using a trackpad.
 
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