Tim Cook Says Apple Won't Create 'Converged' Mac and iPad

[CyberFriar]

Tim,

I for one definitely want a more OSX like experience from iPads. Leave iOS to iPhones and iPods and please give the iPad more of a bite. Give me a mode where I can enable OSX like features. Allow multiple user accounts. I want more of a desktop feel. If it has desktop class power then let me develop on it. If I want to hook up additional displays to see more information than will fit on the iPad display and I'm talking about more than mirroring to AppleTV, then let me.

Or here let me make it simpler for you: give me a Mac in iPad form and if it can also run existing iPad apps that would be nice.

 

[npmacuser5]

This is exactly the problem! If you go down this road you start to cannibalise OS X, removing features to make it more friendly with iOS.
Sure, use Photo's as an example. Aperture was sacrificed for that to happen.
The terrifying thought of Logic becoming more and more like Garageband and FCP becoming iMovie (actually this has already happened).
iOS is the idiot brother of OS X and to play nice one has to slow down a lot.

It's high time given the massive cash reserves and resources that Apple have to start from scratch and re-create the OS for the future. That has to be touch based and desktop. It's the way things are happening with or without Apple.

Obviously Mac Rumours isn't representative of the general consumer but if Apple were to create the Apple Pro people would buy it, love it and wonder why this wasn't done years ago.

I cannot see what you are concerned about in the cannibalize comment. Others are already doing a single OS. I will give you this, their first attempts are not perfect but definitely not cannibalized. These first attempts are not unlike Apples first attempts, have flaws. I think Apple is in a unique position to reinvent the laptop tablet if they so chose to.

 

[niun]

I cannot see what you are concerned about in the cannibalize comment. Others are already doing a single OS. I will give you this, their first attempts are not perfect but definitely not cannibalized. These first attempts are not unlike Apples first attempts, have flaws. I think Apple is in a unique position to reinvent the laptop tablet if they so chose to.

I was pointing out that to make OS X work more like iOS, OS X will have to - and has - lose features and functionality.

I think it's time Apple took a look at iOS and OS X and went back to the drawing board to re-think this mobile solution.
Microsoft have done so with continuum. It's a bold move. Might not pay off but they are thinking differently and it's great / exciting to see.

 

[dk001]

Absolutely untrue. Hardware wise, the iPad is superior to Surface Pro in almost all regards. But when it comes to enterprise usage the SP is superior to the iPad on the software side. The OS makes the SP much more conducive to business usage for the reasons I've already explained. This is apparent by the absolute failure of the Surface (non Pro model) in the marketplace compared to the iPad.
...

Two of the biggest hardware aspects that the iPad (any of them) miss:

• Ports - with an iPad you have to use a dongle for any type of hardware hook up be it docking, lab equipment, security, devices ...
• Lifespan - Apple has a very bad habit of abandoning technology, hardware, and software in an effort to drive what it feels should happen and this is usually not what a business needs. Nobody see's Apple supporting an enterprise model that allows utilization of iPads going back several years and use with a varying array of other hardware/software.

The iPad is a niche product trying to bridge the Mobile - Notebook/Desktop world. There are any number of scenarios out there where an iPad Pro would be a significant benefit. The cost to build in the business procedure, hardware infrastructure, and training would be seriously adverse to the health of that company. Asking a CFO/CIO to put this in now ... not happening. What it can do is get them thinking about the possibility of future design.

A Surface Pro - I can put in place and pretty much use today in most cases. An iPad - no.

of course there is such car. but the question is what is its market share compared to car or pick-up truck? does it has gas mileage like a car? can it carry big load like a pick up truck? of course not. that was my point. you can combine all you want but you will lose advantages .
this is a car that can also fly, and some people want it. but it is tiny minority.

As a whole SUV's are the biggest and big SUVs are the up and coming market.
Individually by model the king is the pickup truck.

Speaking of the USA. The remainder of the world (except the Middle East and Toyota pickups) I don't know.

 

[dk001]

Deleted

 

[Dayvish]

While the iPad Pro further bridges the gap between iOS and OS X, and notebooks and tablets as a whole, Apple CEO Tim Cook recently told the Irish Independent that Apple is not interested in creating a "converged Mac and iPad."

Instead, Cook said Apple wants to create the best possible Mac and iPad, suggesting that both products have a strong future. The chief executive is "bullish" about the reverse of declining iPad sales in recent quarters.Last week, Cook rhetorically questioned why anyone would buy a PC anymore -- excluding the Mac, which he says is not the "same" -- and said the iPad Pro will serve as a replacement for a notebook or desktop computer for "many, many people."Many early iPad Pro reviews described the tablet as a powerful creative canvas, but not quite a true PC replacement. Benchmarks found the iPad Pro delivers MacBook Air-class CPU performance and MacBook Pro-class GPU performance.

MacStories editor Federico Viticci, as someone who uses iOS as his main computing platform, felt otherwise. "I don't see myself using a Mac as my primary computer ever again," he wrote in his iPad Pro review.

Cook also provided a non-comment about Apple's rumored electric vehicle plans, emphasizing "a need for a focus on user interface."Follow our iPad Pro and Apple Car roundups for the latest news about each topic.

Article Link: Tim Cook Says Apple Won't Create 'Converged' Mac and iPad

I would like to know what information Tim Cook is basing his statement of - "We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad,”. I am not aware of anyway to send Apple feedback about new products (only existing ones) and I am reminded of when Steve Jobs was adiment about never making a larger iPhone. I think Microsost is poised to give Tim Cook etal a big wakeup call with the launch of the Surface Pro 4.

I have been a very satisfied, exclusive Apple user since 2010. Currently I have an iPhone 6s+, an iPad Air, new Apple TV, and a MacMini and love them all. My wife is also exclusively Apple. I am looking ahead toward replacement of my MacMini. I have considered a Mac Book as I need the power of a desktop that is portable. However, what I realize I specifically need and want is a hybrid. I use music recording software (Reaper) for recording with other musicians and mixer control software (Xair) for controlling a wireless Behringer mixer for live playback and recording. I need a desktop level computer that is portable and compact with touch screen ability for use in the field. A traditional non-touch, clamshell laptop is too cumbersome for this use. I had been waiting for Apple to "catch up" with the Surface Pro 4 launch (or even just say they would be soon). Now that Tim Cook has blantantly said this will not happen, I will be buying a Surface Pro 4 which from what I can tell is a very well executed product. I would rather buy a Mac Hybrid but have no reason to wait further knowing it will work well with iCloud, my other OS devices. Seems the real reason for Apple resistance is fear that a hybrid would be so successful it would diminish iPad sales. Not a very altruistic approach to having the customers best interests at heart.

 

[niun]

I would like to know what information Tim Cook is basing his statement of - "We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad,”.

This is another thing I find fascinating. You watch the MS SurfaceBook keynote. It's all about the customer. MS listened and provided.

Apple.. Well, they've always told people what's better for them unless it really hurts sales - Final Cut Pro I'm looking at you.

Tim Cook, "We feel strongly that we can nickel and dime our customers with two devices, up-sells and peripherals for far far longer if we delay the convergence of Mac and iPad".

 

[QquegChristian]

I would like to know what information Tim Cook is basing his statement of - "We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad,”. I am not aware of anyway to send Apple feedback about new products (only existing ones) and I am reminded of when Steve Jobs was adiment about never making a larger iPhone. I think Microsost is poised to give Tim Cook etal a big wakeup call with the launch of the Surface Pro 4.

I have been a very satisfied, exclusive Apple user since 2010. Currently I have an iPhone 6s+, an iPad Air, new Apple TV, and a MacMini and love them all. My wife is also exclusively Apple. I am looking ahead toward replacement of my MacMini. I have considered a Mac Book as I need the power of a desktop that is portable. However, what I realize I specifically need and want is a hybrid. I use music recording software (Reaper) for recording with other musicians and mixer control software (Xair) for controlling a wireless Behringer mixer for live playback and recording. I need a desktop level computer that is portable and compact with touch screen ability for use in the field. A traditional non-touch, clamshell laptop is too cumbersome for this use. I had been waiting for Apple to "catch up" with the Surface Pro 4 launch (or even just say they would be soon). Now that Tim Cook has blantantly said this will not happen, I will be buying a Surface Pro 4 which from what I can tell is a very well executed product. I would rather buy a Mac Hybrid but have no reason to wait further knowing it will work well with iCloud, my other OS devices. Seems the real reason for Apple resistance is fear that a hybrid would be so successful it would diminish iPad sales. Not a very altruistic approach to having the customers best interests at heart.

Yay for Reaper! I use it on my Surface all the time.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

I was pointing out that to make OS X work more like iOS, OS X will have to - and has - lose features and functionality.

I think it's time Apple took a look at iOS and OS X and went back to the drawing board to re-think this mobile solution.
Microsoft have done so with continuum. It's a bold move. Might not pay off but they are thinking differently and it's great / exciting to see.

I pointed this out to another poster that Apple should've made a new iOS only for iPad pro. The UI and home page looked "slapped on" which reeks of laziness.

An advanced iOS for iPad pro would've made sense. Wasn't this Jony's job as Chief Creative Officer to put a clamp on this!?!

And here's the kicker:

Former Apple designers say the company has lost 'the fundamental principles of good design' - The Verge
https://apple.news/AgGvp6qL-SSW4Hkcoq2qhUQ

 

[niun]

And here's the kicker:

Former Apple designers say the company has lost 'the fundamental principles of good design' - The Verge
https://apple.news/AgGvp6qL-SSW4Hkcoq2qhUQ

I was just reading that.. Good article.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

I was just reading that.. Good article.

It's gold and I agree with the article.

Actually the full source is here:

http://m.fastcompany.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name

 

[dk001]

You already have file system access in iOS. If you didn't, you'd have a paperweight.

However, if you're referring to an app such as Finder, trust me, you'd hate it. If you're really curious, jailbreak your iOS device and open it up in some app that lets you view the contents of an iOS device's storage volume—it's a mess.

This is why apps like iFile are so popular in Cydia.
You don't have to look at the whole iOS file structure mess unless you want to. Use the specific folder(s) you want that are of benefit. Folks are looking to use the glove box, trunk, center console storage, not read the EMS design.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Old, conservative, complacent, out of touch with the future they themselves created.

Stock sold.

 

[dk001]

Good! Thanks Tim!
I know nobody wants to believe Tim Cook, but I don't think he's pulling wool over anyone's eyes. iOS is still a young Operating System. It's going to grow to become nearly as feature rich as OSX, and with the "pro" features restricted to iPads that are designed to handle them, like the iPad Pro. The app ecosystem will reflect the new capabilities of iPads and iOS.
There will be no hybrid. iOS will simply grow.

Not disagreeing however I for one don't plan on waiting another decade for them to get off their collective a$$ to come out with it.

 

[linuxcooldude]

This is another thing I find fascinating. You watch the MS SurfaceBook keynote. It's all about the customer. MS listened and provided.

Apple.. Well, they've always told people what's better for them unless it really hurts sales - Final Cut Pro I'm looking at you.

Tim Cook, "We feel strongly that we can nickel and dime our customers with two devices, up-sells and peripherals for far far longer if we delay the convergence of Mac and iPad".

Apple tends to watch the market before they make a product. Are Surface Pro's still being used as laptops rather then tablets or vice versa? If so, then perhaps a hybrid is not filling a need. Why a Surface Book if the Surface Pro is meant to replace a Laptop? Seems MS is just of filling a lot of needs to see what sticks.

I'm sure a lot of customers want a lot of things, but is that reason enough to make one? If it fills a small niche of people, what those people want won't fill the needs of the majority of them.

 

[Dmunjal]

Not disagreeing however I for one don't plan on waiting another decade for them to get off their collective a$$ to come out with it.

Agreed. Nine releases and they finally allow email attachments and two screen multitasking. But only on iPads! It's a slow drip.

 

[Dmunjal]

Apple tends to watch the market before they make a product. Are Surface Pro's still being used as laptops rather then tablets or vice versa? If so, then perhaps a hybrid is not filling a need. Why a Surface Book if the Surface Pro is meant to replace a Laptop? Seems MS is just of filling a lot of needs to see what sticks.

I'm sure a lot of customers want a lot of things, but is that reason enough to make one? If it fills a small niche of people, what those people want won't fill the needs of the majority of them.

This is also what Apple is noticing. People who buy hybrids use it primarily as a laptop but it can be used as a touchscreen tablet when needed. It's not as good as an iPad but it does the job. So, no reason to buy an iPad now. Since these devices came on the market, iPad sales have declined. Apple responds with the IPP. Time to get the popcorn.

 

[dk001]

What annoys me is that ipad users continue to profess that surface pro users only use their SP's as laptops, that's utter BS. What it smacks of to me is an insecurity about using something as primitive as an ipad. I don't need a primitive "app" with 2"x2" buttons to accomplish my tasks. People make windows on a tablet seem so much more difficult than it really is, STOP dumbing yourselves down.

Not sure I got all you were saying .....
Surface Pro - like the one I have unfortunately the apps are 3rd rate at best. I use a iPad Mini 3 as my consumptive tablet. Now if I could take my Mini and dock it allowing it to be the heart of a desktop system ..... nice
But I digress .... The Surface Pro is a great tablet if only now MS would have the apps to match.

 

[niun]

Apple tends to watch the market before they make a product. Are Surface Pro's still being used as laptops rather then tablets or vice versa? If so, then perhaps a hybrid is not filling a need. Why a Surface Book if the Surface Pro is meant to replace a Laptop? Seems MS is just of filling a lot of needs to see what sticks.

I'm sure a lot of customers want a lot of things, but is that reason enough to make one? If it fills a small niche of people, what those people want won't fill the needs of the majority of them.

This doesn't follow. The iPhone proved that.
Didn't Apple used to CREATE the markets for things people never knew they needed?

 

[dk001]

Not with the current technology. We should read the context carefully instead of jumping to conclusion. No one needs a touchscreen phone then. But the technology caught up and iPhone was born. At the moment, an iPad that is as powerful as QuadCore i7 turbo boost to 4GHZ, 16GB RAM DDR3, 512GB flash storage with dedicated AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching, while still maintaining 10 hours battery, as light as 700 grams and thinner than 7mm is just impossible.

Why? If I had the ability / resources Apple / MS or others have I would be seriously looking at HOW to do this; who can I partner with to work towards this; what new tech is in the pipeline to allow this; etc... and maybe they are.

Maybe, but it makes me wonder how many regular people vs. the macrumors user base would want one. It seems like its really just a niche group of people wanting it.

I suspect people for the most part don't realize what can be done. I know more than a few times my wife wishes she could plug her iPad or Android phone into a desktop slot and BOOM!! she's is running a desktop - mostly for photo and video. Several times when I was testing a Fonepad people would stop to look / talk / discuss and so many wished they could do something like that with an iDevice or plug it into a MB.
There is so much potential out there. It is I feel a matter of opening peoples eyes to what can be.

Which is why there are millions of companies as successful as Apple.

I suspect a number of companies have played with or even developed the idea only to run afoul of the Apple / MS legal juggernauts. These are the fallout's you seldom hear of.

 

[linuxcooldude]

This is also what Apple is noticing. People who buy hybrids use it primarily as a laptop but it can be used as a touchscreen tablet when needed. It's not as good as an iPad but it does the job. So, no reason to buy an iPad now. Since these devices came on the market, iPad sales have declined. Apple responds with the IPP. Time to get the popcorn.

I think iPads are declining the fact that everybody who wanted one, has one. They don't feel the need to buy one every two years like an iPhone and their current one is good enough. I have not seen enough hybrid devices, especially the Surface Pro or Surface Book sold in enough quantities to say that is the primary reason why. I just don't see them in mass quantities like the iPads initially were.

This doesn't follow. The iPhone proved that.
Didn't Apple used to CREATE the markets for things people never knew they needed?

We've had hybrids for a long time and did not take off. Microsoft making their own version may not nessicarily going to be as popular, just another choice among all the others out there.

 

[sracer]

Apple tends to watch the market before they make a product. Are Surface Pro's still being used as laptops rather then tablets or vice versa? If so, then perhaps a hybrid is not filling a need. Why a Surface Book if the Surface Pro is meant to replace a Laptop? Seems MS is just of filling a lot of needs to see what sticks.

I've seen this behavior from Microsoft before.... with the Zune. In spite of Ballmer no longer heading up MS, the internal corporate culture does not appear to have changed significantly from those days.

Both Zune and Surface are Microsoft's attempt to follow where Apple had lead. With both launches, Microsoft stumbled out of the gate. Branding and pricing were two issues for both.

After the first gen of Zune, Microsoft "rebooted" by ditching the skinned version of Windows Media Player and producing a fresh from the ground up version for managing/syncing media. Only to go on to dilute the brand with significant changes between generations, anyone remember the "Squircle"? Again following Apple's lead, ditching physical buttons for touchscreen with the HD, only to quickly kill it shortly after.

I see something similar with the Surface. Producing a Surface and Surface Pro that were similar but different simply caused confusion. Pricing was a bit out of whack as well. MS quickly killed the Windows RT Surface almost immediately after releasing the Surface 2. Big mistake IMO, they should've doubled-down in getting developers to create touch-optimized Modern UI apps.

With all of their push re: Surface Pro - the tablet that can replace your notebook, (as you noted) they send a contradictory message with the Surface Book. In my sphere of acquaintances, there is significantly more interest and purchases of the more expensive Surface Book than the Surface Pro.

Microsoft knows that the Surface is not a terrific tablet and cannot stand alone as a tablet. That is why they never advertise a Surface without prominently displaying the TypeCover. They don't sell a cover for ANY Surface that doesn't have a keyboard.

The Surface Book lines up more with how many people are using the Surface Pro... ultrabooks that can act as tablets in a pinch. I think that the Surface Book will be wildly popular and if so, I can see MS quietly sunsetting the Surface Pro. (Especially as the hardware of the SB matures and price comes down a bit)

DISCLAIMER: I guess I should reveal that I was and still am a huge fan of the Zune and Surface 2 and continue to use both regularly (almost daily).

 

[dk001]

Except you now have a detachable display that must have a:
1) large enough battery to last as long as it does docked or people will whine about battery life...
2) large SSD in it so people don't whine about not having enough room for all their data and programs and having to decide what to load onto the display before detaching it...
3)powerful enough processor to run programs as fast as when docked or people will whine it is to slow...
4)fan to cool the thing and give people fan noise to whine about...
5)way to convince developers to rewrite programs to work with a touch screen or else people will whine "Why can't I play X when I detach the display..."
6) set of port s that replicate the base unit's or else people will whine how that can connect a USB device or external monitor...

The list goes on, but my point is to make something that meets people expectations would require so many tradeoff start the result would be a great big metal and glass chunk of hurt. People would expect the display to function like a laptop when detached, not to magically become an iPad with fewer capabilities and different programs.

These are all engineering issues to solve and they can be solved. All you need is a company with the pockets and drive to do it.

He's wrong. Look at how far away that person is from the laptop, they have to be like 3 feet away, do you really put a 12" screen 3 feet away? You see how even when they are using the trackpad their arm is still off the table. That's not how a touchscreen on a laptop would be used, and it's certainly not used exclusively. Last time I checked my hand was not super glued to my mouse or trackpad, I can lift it off and perform small tasks which make MUCH more sense with touch, such as pinch and zoom or simply selecting a link, or maybe I need to draw something. You aren't necessarily using touch exclusively, but mixing it in with your other interactions.

....

If I sat like that at my desk, our Health/Ergo folks would break out Sister Theresa's ruler and commence to educate me

 

[rdlink]

Two of the biggest hardware aspects that the iPad (any of them) miss:

• Ports - with an iPad you have to use a dongle for any type of hardware hook up be it docking, lab equipment, security, devices ...
• Lifespan - Apple has a very bad habit of abandoning technology, hardware, and software in an effort to drive what it feels should happen and this is usually not what a business needs. Nobody see's Apple supporting an enterprise model that allows utilization of iPads going back several years and use with a varying array of other hardware/software.

The iPad is a niche product trying to bridge the Mobile - Notebook/Desktop world. There are any number of scenarios out there where an iPad Pro would be a significant benefit. The cost to build in the business procedure, hardware infrastructure, and training would be seriously adverse to the health of that company. Asking a CFO/CIO to put this in now ... not happening. What it can do is get them thinking about the possibility of future design.

A Surface Pro - I can put in place and pretty much use today in most cases. An iPad - no...

Interesting take on things. Perhaps we should shut down the 332 iPads that are being used in our business today, and replace them with Surface Pros (which currently number 5 in our environment). Of course, we could only replace the iPads with about a third as many SPs, since they cost three times as much by the time they're configured to be usable.

Those ports are really holding us back.

And you must be absolutely right that the iPad is basically disposable. Because out of the 332 in our environment we only have:

-74 iPad 2. Introduced over 4 1/2 years ago.
-41 iPad 3rd Gen. Introduced over 3 1/2 years ago.
-32 iPad 4th Gen. Introduced over 3 years ago.
-90 iPad Airs. Introduced over 2 years ago.

So, out of 332 total iPads in our environment we have 237 of them that are considered legacy. Better throw them away right now!

 

[niun]

The Surface Book lines up more with how many people are using the Surface Pro... ultrabooks that can act as tablets in a pinch. I think that the Surface Book will be wildly popular and if so, I can see MS quietly sunsetting the Surface Pro. (Especially as the hardware of the SB matures and price comes down a bit)

Sadly I can see this happening although I think there is a market for both the Surface and Surfacebook.
I would say that no matter how MS started this Surface project they now have a pretty solid idea about where it's going.