Tim Cook Says Apple Won't Create 'Converged' Mac and iPad

[niun]

Interesting take on things. Perhaps we should shut down the 332 iPads that are being used in our business today, and replace them with Surface Pros (which currently number 5 in our environment). Of course, we could only replace the iPads with about a third as many SPs, since they cost three times as much by the time they're configured to be usable.

Those ports are really holding us back.

And you must be absolutely right that the iPad is basically disposable. Because out of the 332 in our environment we only have:

-74 iPad 2. Introduced over 4 1/2 years ago.
-41 iPad 3rd Gen. Introduced over 3 1/2 years ago.
-32 iPad 4th Gen. Introduced over 3 years ago.
-90 iPad Airs. Introduced over 2 years ago.

So, out of 332 total iPads in our environment we have 237 of them that are considered legacy. Better throw them away right now!

Are the all running the latest iOS? No slowdown? No Bugs?

 

[navaira]

Didn't Apple used to CREATE the markets for things people never knew they needed?

Well, you could say that they are trying to do so with iPad Pro, it's just that it's out now and people still don't know they need one.

 

[Robstevo]

Interesting take on things. Perhaps we should shut down the 332 iPads that are being used in our business today, and replace them with Surface Pros (which currently number 5 in our environment). Of course, we could only replace the iPads with about a third as many SPs, since they cost three times as much by the time they're configured to be usable.

Those ports are really holding us back.

And you must be absolutely right that the iPad is basically disposable. Because out of the 332 in our environment we only have:

-74 iPad 2. Introduced over 4 1/2 years ago.
-41 iPad 3rd Gen. Introduced over 3 1/2 years ago.
-32 iPad 4th Gen. Introduced over 3 years ago.
-90 iPad Airs. Introduced over 2 years ago.

So, out of 332 total iPads in our environment we have 237 of them that are considered legacy. Better throw them away right now!

What do you do in your buisness

 

[niun]

Well, you could say that they are trying to do so with iPad Pro, it's just that it's out now and people still don't know they need one.

You could say that if the Pro wasn't Apple just playing it safe.
They couldn't even change the damn iPad mould to create something new!

 

[jlc1978]

Errrr.. SurfaceBook has pretty much all of that covered in a first generation device - admittedly not all of it perfectly (but since when has a first gen device ever been perfect).
So it can be done with no real trade-offs at all and Apple has the muscle and manpower to do it and more expertise than MS!

Lets see
1) Poor battery life when used as a tablet
2) To get a discrete GPU you must use the dock, otherwise you live with so-so graphics in the integrated unit and even the discrete unit is nothing to write home about
3) It's thick and heavy
4)It's expensive if yo want a reasonably powerful one

It's a neat device, and not bad for a gen 1 device; but it illustrates the trade offs needed to build a combo unit an that the product is not there yet.

 

[spinedoc77]

The scenario you are envisaging is just not real world use. You're trying to put two distinct products and the scenarios they would have, together. If you're holding a laptop in one hand, you're not really trying to "work" using the other free hand. If you are, you're going to interact with the keyboard - for a couple of reasons. First, you have to assume you're holding the laptop by the base, not the screen, correct? Because if you agree that is how you're holding it, using your free hand to push on the screen would be changing the balance of the laptop, either forcing you to try to hold on more tightly, or to change your grip to somehow hold the screen and base at the fulcrum. If you're holding it as most people do, and type or use the trackpad, you're interaction is simply pushing against your holding hand which is what you expect to happen, so there is no shift in balance or weight distribution.

And in the case of a laptop being used...on your lap, the motion of moving your hands from the flat horizontal plane in front of you to the vertical plane, takes both muscle and coordination - and in the case of trying to do touch input on a screen while riding a bus or subway, adds a level of difficulty due to the motion of the train. So it becomes a really bad way to interact. Doing so while on your smart phone, or tablet is different where you are both holding and typing or tapping on screen at the same time.

Are you saying people don't use their laptops on their laps? Of course it is real world use. I don't get the rest of your points, they don't make sense to me. I'm holding the laptop with one hand, either on the base or on the screen itself, it doesn't matter. My other hand is using the touchscreen to interact. The way you describe it, I'm holding the laptop up in the air, but THAT is not real world use. In reality the laptop's weight is rested on top of my lap/thighs, with the much heavier portion on a laptop traditionally being the bottom. Just to clarify I'm not punching the touchscreen, I'm "touching" it, that's not going to cause a balance issue unless you suddenly have a stroke and spastically stab the screen with your finger. Even if I were to accept your points, which I don't, those points apply just as much to using a trackpad, if anything they apply MORE to using a trackpad in such a scenario.

 

[jlc1978]

These are all engineering issues to solve and they can be solved. All you need is a company with the pockets and drive to do it.

you also need technology that supports a great, rater than merely, a solution; plus an assurance you can actually make the device at a price point that will sell enough to warrant the investment. the technology is not there yet and so to try to introduce one now would lead to a disappointing product.

It's sorta like the Newton. great idea, very interesting but not a viable product do to technology limitations. Once those got solved the iPad came into being.

 

[niun]

Lets see
1) Poor battery life when used as a tablet
2) To get a discrete GPU you must use the dock, otherwise you live with so-so graphics in the integrated unit and even the discrete unit is nothing to write home about
3) It's thick and heavy

It's a neat device, and not bad for a gen 1 device; but it illustrates the trades needed to build a combo unit an that the product is not there yet.

Yeah, that's why I said it had pretty much all that covered in a first gen device.
You're telling me that Apple couldn't work out the kinks? Maybe not today's Apple but still..
MS will have all of those fixed in the SurfaceBook 2. Going by the removable keyboard you might even be able to upgrade that part alone to get the next gen of discreet GPU.

 

[bnmcj1]

My answer to that is: in the future no one wants a device that is not converged. Even the iPhone is a converged device.

Get a grip. Nobody wants to buy both a tablet and a computer just two years from now. Students are already having surface. Before everyone had MacBooks.

It is not even a hybrid device. It is an entirely new thing replacing both and making both better. A laptop with a kickstand is much better than one with just folding mechanism. A tablet with a kickstand and pen input is much better than just a tablet.

Weight? Well, after holding iPad "pro" which took me straight to 2010 with its weight and big toy icons, bad keyboard and so on, that argument can't hold up anymore. Surface pro 4 is thin.

 

[dk001]

Interesting take on things. Perhaps we should shut down the 332 iPads that are being used in our business today, and replace them with Surface Pros (which currently number 5 in our environment). Of course, we could only replace the iPads with about a third as many SPs, since they cost three times as much by the time they're configured to be usable.
...
!

Shut down? Why?
There are businesses that can utilize them as is. These (excluding BYOD) are a minority though. Seen so many try it and find they are less than envisioned and/or more expensive. Been on teams trying to build apps for enterprise use.
To actively replace desktops/laptops in an enterprise is at best a stretch. They can be a supplemental device (see BYOD usage drivers).

Areas I have seen them fail to fulfill the expectation:

• Pharma
• Medical Practice
• Education
• Analytical Labs
• Manufacturing
• R&D
• Distribution Centers
• Industrial Engineering

etc....

It is a bridge mobile device. If that can fulfill your needs - great!
With some changes it can do so much more.

 

[rdlink]

• Are the all running the latest iOS? No slowdown? No Bugs?

  
  They are all running OS and software that is within our guidelines. And running it fine.
  
  

  What do you do in your buisness

  
  Legal
  
  

  Shut down? Why?
  There are businesses that can utilize them as is. These (excluding BYOD) are a minority though. Seen so many try it and find they are less than envisioned and/or more expensive. Been on teams trying to build apps for enterprise use.
  To actively replace desktops/laptops in an enterprise is at best a stretch. They can be a supplemental device (see BYOD usage drivers).
  
  Areas I have seen them fail to fulfill the expectation:
  

  • Pharma
  • Medical Practice
  • Education
  • Analytical Labs
  • Manufacturing
  • R&D
  • Distribution Centers
  • Industrial Engineering

  etc....
  
  It is a bridge mobile device. If that can fulfill your needs - great!
  With some changes it can do so much more.

I was being sarcastic about shutting them down. I was trying to illustrate that they are quite useful for business as is.

But I agree with you that they could be so much more. Where we disagree is that the limitations for their use is software, rather than hardware.

 

[jmgregory1]

Are you saying people don't use their laptops on their laps? Of course it is real world use. I don't get the rest of your points, they don't make sense to me. I'm holding the laptop with one hand, either on the base or on the screen itself, it doesn't matter. My other hand is using the touchscreen to interact. The way you describe it, I'm holding the laptop up in the air, but THAT is not real world use. In reality the laptop's weight is rested on top of my lap/thighs, with the much heavier portion on a laptop traditionally being the bottom. Just to clarify I'm not punching the touchscreen, I'm "touching" it, that's not going to cause a balance issue unless you suddenly have a stroke and spastically stab the screen with your finger. Even if I were to accept your points, which I don't, those points apply just as much to using a trackpad, if anything they apply MORE to using a trackpad in such a scenario.

My comment about holding a laptop in the air, one handed, and "working", is the first point. And as far as using it in your lap, as a laptop was so conveniently named after, was moving from typing to touch is NOT something that is natural to do. And "touching" the screen in the case of either being stationary or while on public transport does cause issues, as I can attest to when using my iPad with bt keyboard. You can end up having to take both hands off the keyboard, one to hold the screen steady and the other to interact on-screen just slows down the whole input piece. When I'm using my rMBP, there is no issues with touching the screen, trying to get the right thing touched or activated. You can just do that all on the trackpad.

And no, the issues with holding your hand steady, in the air, unsupported, while trying to interact with a touchscreen, are specific to what you experience with a convertible laptop / tablet. When using a trackpad, your lap is supporting the trackpad, which is inherently more stable than touch input on a screen.

 

[Keirasplace]

They will make one. No way they will continue to let Microsoft get all the money. Surface is killing it. They would LOVE to have an Apple product on the tables during NFL games.

What all money, they've lost money, still sell a lot less than the Ipad and even Mac. Don't know what your saying!
If anyone is "making all the money" it's Apple. The Ipad pro 128GB is sold out and probably will be into the new year.

 

[Keirasplace]

Again, market is growing because demand is increasing for products. Here is the math for you. Surface went from 0 and losing money to $3.5bil market in 3 years. That's the definition of a growing market. But sales are down compared to previous quarters because people were waiting for Surface Pro 4 and nobody wants to buy old products. This affects EVERY SINGLE company, even Apple. Sales will shoot up once again once this quarter is over and dip again 2 months before Surface Pro 5 release. This is how sales work.

Apple will sell more Ipad pro in one quarter than that and yes, Apple is undoubtably "doomed".
Sales and profits is not the same; losing money means it's not a "business" yet.
When MS is making good money from this thing; they can start talking.

 

[jlc1978]

My answer to that is: in the future no one wants a device that is not converged. Even the iPhone is a converged device.

People want devices tag are well suited to the task at hand. An iPhone may be a converged phone / mp3 player but one could argue it isn't converged with a tablet. Why not converge them as well, other than it would be a poor solution.

right now, Apple doesn't think a converged device is the answer. That may change, and they may be exploring the options, but essentially they are saying " There are too many tradeoffs to building a converged device that we cannot currently build one that will do both things exceedingly well at a cost that is affordable and aren't going to release a so-so device just to say we have a converged device."

 

[spinedoc77]

My comment about holding a laptop in the air, one handed, and "working", is the first point. And as far as using it in your lap, as a laptop was so conveniently named after, was moving from typing to touch is NOT something that is natural to do. And "touching" the screen in the case of either being stationary or while on public transport does cause issues, as I can attest to when using my iPad with bt keyboard. You can end up having to take both hands off the keyboard, one to hold the screen steady and the other to interact on-screen just slows down the whole input piece. When I'm using my rMBP, there is no issues with touching the screen, trying to get the right thing touched or activated. You can just do that all on the trackpad.

And no, the issues with holding your hand steady, in the air, unsupported, while trying to interact with a touchscreen, are specific to what you experience with a convertible laptop / tablet. When using a trackpad, your lap is supporting the trackpad, which is inherently more stable than touch input on a screen.

I disagree, touching the screen when your hand is so close to it is much more natural than contorting your arm and hand to use the trackpad. I'm also not talking about using an ipad with a bt keyboard, man how much different can you get than using a traditional laptop?!?!? You have a top heavy ipad, with virtually no weight grounding it, although having said that I use my SP4 like that all the time and have zero issues with it tipping forward. Maybe it's time to get one of those gripmaster hand exercisers? =)

As for holding it in the air, I didn't mean that literally, I just wasn't sure if you did./ Obviously you're not going to hold a laptop in the air (or are you?), but you can hold a tablet in the air, although I never found the utility in this as the weight of my arm would tire me out pretty quickly. It does kind of lead back to touch tablets versus non touch laptops, which is going to work standing up? It might be kind of obvious, but I'd sure as hell hate to use my laptop standing up, would I balance it on one hand and use the trackpad in the other? FYI I have done this lol, before tablets were a thing, it's scary.

Please note I'm just giving you opinions and how I use my devices and the results I get from using them, I'm not trying to tell you how to use yours. Neither of our uses are universal, and that was my only point.

 

[ksuyen]

Why? If I had the ability / resources Apple / MS or others have I would be seriously looking at HOW to do this; who can I partner with to work towards this; what new tech is in the pipeline to allow this; etc... and maybe they are.

Not saying that they are not looking for it, and I am sure they actually could make one - but with a big sacrifice in other things: perhaps the battery will only last 5 hours while playing The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt for example in full FPS? Or it's too bulky since the tech is not there yet to make unified chip that can include dedicated AMD Radeon class graphic?

Apple is a perfectionist, such bulky, terribly battery life, heavy product is not feasible to be called "the best iPad ever, the best user experience ever, etc." As I said, the technology is still not there. I am guessing Apple is looking at Nanotech right now, but to be market for average people is out of question. Not at this time.

 

[sracer]

I disagree, touching the screen when your hand is so close to it is much more natural than contorting your arm and hand to use the trackpad. I'm also not talking about using an ipad with a bt keyboard, man how much different can you get than using a traditional laptop?!?!? You have a top heavy ipad, with virtually no weight grounding it, although having said that I use my SP4 like that all the time and have zero issues with it tipping forward. Maybe it's time to get one of those gripmaster hand exercisers? =)

Wow, you're making a case for the iPad Pro being closer to a notebook replacement than I could make (I don't think that the iPad Pro is any closer to that than the non-Pro iPad).

 

[OrangeInc]

Which is why there are millions of companies as successful as Apple.

I get it. You sold your soul to apple. They can do no wrong. You think there aren't smart high school aged people in the world or something? No man on earth but Apple inc. can modify a laptop into a hybrid laptop/tablet? Oh wait, it's already been done.

One could draw the same exact comparison to the iPhone 6. All other companies had big screens but Apple consumers somehow don't "need" it but once iPhone 6 comes out it's an innovation...The hybrid will come out don't worry. I think if Tim Cook told you the sky was falling you would believe him.

But being apple of course they will restrict it's functionality so it's not as powerful as a macbook pro but also not as efficient as an ipad. Hit that sweet spot where there are 3 products instead of 2.

 

[dk001]

Not saying that they are not looking for it, and I am sure they actually could make one - but with a big sacrifice in other things: perhaps the battery will only last 5 hours while playing The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt for example in full FPS? Or it's too bulky since the tech is not there yet to make unified chip that can include dedicated AMD Radeon class graphic?

Apple is a perfectionist, such bulky, terribly battery life, heavy product is not feasible to be called "the best iPad ever, the best user experience ever, etc." As I said, the technology is still not there. I am guessing Apple is looking at Nanotech right now, but to be market for average people is out of question. Not at this time.

I hear what you are saying. Not sure I agree on the perfectionist part based on the last few iOS upgrades.
Still, if they are or have done so, why not come out and say it? This "nobody wants one" type of statement is a load. They are selling pretty well on the competitors side.

 

[ksuyen]

I hear what you are saying. Not sure I agree on the perfectionist part based on the last few iOS upgrades.
Still, if they are or have done so, why not come out and say it? This "nobody wants one" type of statement is a load. They are selling pretty well on the competitors side.

I agree with Cook that "such bulky, terribly battery life, heavy iPad" is really nobody wants one. He is not wrong. Besides, Apple never in a habit to disclose any of their internal projects, they even go for triple down for the new iPhone, so if they didn't say they do it, it's doesn't mean they don't have it. I hope I make sense

Also, I referred the perfectionist to their hardware design (as in the whole context of this post) rather than iOS which I kind of agreed with you.

 

[spinedoc77]

Wow, you're making a case for the iPad Pro being closer to a notebook replacement than I could make (I don't think that the iPad Pro is any closer to that than the non-Pro iPad).

Lol, not really. It doesn't have the OS to be a notebook replacement universally. Sure some can shoehorn it to their purposes, but I can't see it replacing notebooks en masse. I think you read my comments wrong somehow.

 

[Dmunjal]

Good unbiased comparison of SP4 and IPP.

 

[Precision Gem]

Well, you could reply to emails on a surface 3 just as well, maybe better if iOS hasn't resolved their issue with email attachments (I'm not sure if they have). What web applications do you need that you can't find on windows?

As far as replacing the 27" retina, I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you truly missed my point. Just connect an external monitor to the surface pro, as I mentioned I have 2 28" 4k monitors that completely blow that 27" away. It's kind of obvious I wouldn't compare a 12" screen to a 27" one, but rather having a desktop experience is what I was comparing.

I don't know much about your software, so you may be right. But either way you are still stuck with that laptop at work, so it's an irrelevant point even if you use an ipad.

At home, why not just connect a full size keyboard to your laptop or windows tablet? At least you have the luxury of also using a mouse, with the ipad you can't even use a mouse.

I don't mean to sound like I'm calling you out, I'm just genuinely curious. I respect your needs as only you know what works best for you. I like the ipad, I really do, it was the jesus pad for me when it first came out, a complete work of art. But once that first windows tablet came out there was NO looking back for me and now I can't handle an ipad without a feeling of deep inadequacy.

I build my websites with Rapidweaver, which only runs on Mac. I use Windows all day for work because I have to,but for my personal use and gemstone business prefer the Mac. I have never been a fan of hooking up keyboards, and monitors to a lap to to make desktop out of the. The iMac is a much cleaner look than wires all over. With the iMac I have just one power cable, and that's it. Using an iPhone, iPad and iMac along with an Apple Watch, everything words together very well, so there would be no point in inserting a Surface 4. When I travel for business, which is very often, I would still need to schlep that big Dell laptop, so I think the IPad pro is less bulk than the Surface.
For me, I am quit happy with all the devices, I love the watch.... Just wish Apple would ship me my Pencil and keyboard.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

A hypocrite? How so? I assume you own an iPad Pro in order to make the claims you have about it being limited. Right? How long have you been using yours? And you know how he uses his because you are friends or a close co-worker?

"opening his mouth saying the iPad Pro is going for replace a desktop/laptop"

Except he didn't say that. He said it could replace a laptop for many many people. Who is opening their mouth?

You assume I own an iPad Pro but I don't. READ what I said before. What are you, the " Ministry of Love "?

I don't need to know how he uses his computers because it should be dead obvious to anyone that he's a hypocrite.

And another thing, for him to say that the iPad Pro will replace a laptop or desktop is still the stupidest thing he's ever said. I'll tell you why. To rely on the iPad Pro, or any idevice, alone as a standalone replacement from the iMac or laptop, you would not be able to sync and back up the data that easily. Doing this via iTunes on the desktop is the fastest and safest method, especially if you do it locally than over the Cloud which takes forever.

Is Tim your " girlfriend "? Stop defending him.