Tim Cook: 'We Don't Buy' the Need to Give Up Privacy for AI

[H2SO4]

Does anyone seriously believe that Apple doesn't collect data on users?

I believe Tim is telling the truth here. Sort of. My thoughts are that;

1. They wil actively collect data from their customers but not share it.
2. They will buy data from others and rely on analytics that would otherwise breach their privacy code. (Data that is probably collected on some of those same customers that were mentioned in point 1.

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Tim is full of it. Apple has no problem selling their users privacy to Google for $1B/year so I don't see how they draw a line for their own AI development. Sounds more like an excuse for not having the technology developed yet.

I had an ever so slightly different take on it.

 

[wpmason]

LOL. Sure Tim! Siri is trash!

By the way, I would just like to point out how people get uptight about privacy, but then 5 minutes later post their entire life to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Foursquare, etc.

It's a lot like sex. You don't demonize people who don't want to get raped just because have consensual sex.

There's a big difference in consenting to share aspects of ones life publicly for any reason, compared to being tracked and profiled without discretion by big corporations that are liable to be infiltrated by ne'er-do-wells.

And the ones that flat out sell you as the product are even worse.

 

[simonmet]

You've been duped. Google and Amazon tell you that they need to invade your privacy to deliver better results (though they say it in a nicer way!) because their business model is 100% based on selling your personal data to advertisers, which they can't do otherwise. This is not the case for Apple, and it is their absolute competitive advantage that Google, Amazon, Facebook and Twitter etc have no way of competing with. It is entirely to Apple's advantage to protect your privacy, for real, in everything they do. It may mean that it makes Apple's job harder, but correspondingly, it's not something they can afford to undermine either.

I sincerely hope this is the case.

 

[dotnet]

With they way Apple and IBM are becoming best mates lately I wouldn't be surprised if Siri became Watson powered in the not too far future

 

[lincolntran]

Does anyone seriously believe that Apple doesn't collect data on users?

Collect but not selling while google will sell everything they collected from you.

LOL. Sure Tim! Siri is trash!

By the way, I would just like to point out how people get uptight about privacy, but then 5 minutes later post their entire life to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Foursquare, etc.

You're mistaken that they're the same people.

They don't want to give up your privacy yet THEY receive 2 billion Siri requests every week!!

Nope, the only way for his statement to be true is for Apple to not receive a damn thing from you. And Siri will always be poorer too then it's competition. I would appreciate it relinquishing privacy for better services and more accuracy.

At this point Apples stupid comments about 'privacy' are nothing more then advertising soundbite gimmicks.

See above

 

[H2SO4]

Collect but not selling while google will sell everything they collected from you.




You're mistaken that they're the same people.




See above

If they buy that same kind of data from others they are pretty much as bad. We both know that they do. Also please give me a real example of what Google buy and sell. (Sources not anecdotes).
Can’t prove that they are of course but how on earth do you know they’re not the same people?

 

[TwoBytes]

Privacy or not, it won't matter if apple can't catch up with the usability and power of competitors. MacRumors posted video link comparing Siri on the new Google assistant and googles assistant was way better than Siri

 

[MH01]

Tim, you collect and store all our voice requests from Siri . Our voices are on these files , it's effectively a voice recorder and apples stores and mines this data for 2 years, stop hiding behind privacy as the catch all, why apple is penny pinching and not taking some innovative risks and pushing thier products.

So of the people here saying this is fantastic, how many here knew apple was storing your voices for 2 years, did you consent to that? I know....it's apple so it's fine, but if google or Microsoft were to do it, it's a violation of our privacy.
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If they buy that same kind of data from others they are pretty much as bad. We both know that they do. Also please give me a real example of what Google buy and sell. (Sources not anecdotes).
Can’t prove that they are of course but how on earth do you know they’re not the same people?

Spot on.

People dont understand the difference between demographic sample data v personal data. In relation to Siri, apple is capturing personal data, disassociating it from the unique Apple ID, getting a random one , just what google does . Actually worse in many cases, cause for many people google never knows who you were before it was scrambled.

 

[timeconsumer]

With Google you know your data is being sent to Google and you use their products knowing that.

With Apple, we don't really know what data is being sent to them or how they are using that data.

I don't know what's worse.

 

[Applebot1]

Reality is Apple has let slip an advantage over the competition in terms of digital assistants. I like the concept a voice interface and hoping Apple will drastically improve Siri.

 

[sir1963nz]

More mullarkey from Tim. Apple's privacy stance is precisely what's been holding Siri back from being useful in any meaningful way. I get far more accurate results with Google Now/Assistant & Amazon's Alexa than I ever have using Siri. At this point Siri is more of a hindrance than a useful tool.

Google has already removed the barrier between the data they collect and adsense. Now adsence is able to personally identify you across web pages. Google has already sold you out in the name of seeking a little more profit.

If data is not collected it can't be abused, sold, stolen, requested by an over zealous government.

 

[macUser2007]

Google has already removed the barrier between the data they collect and adsense. Now adsence is able to personally identify you across web pages. Google has already sold you out in the name of seeking a little more profit....

Hm, do you care to elaborate? My impression is that AdSense keeps and shares only enough personal information to get you paid.
As to Siri and OK Google, here is an interesting article about third-parties accessing your commands:

https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/security-awareness/siri-privacy/
(not sure how accurate this is, of course)

 

[pier]

I think something people like you - no insult intended - miss is that people like me find that really creepy. I don't want Google to have this whole profile of where I'm going, what I'm doing, who I'm going with, when I'm arriving, what transit I'm taking, what roads I'm traveling, where I'm staying, etc. That bothers me. I am willing to sacrifice all of that stuff to keep some semblance of anonymity.

So to you that illusion of anonymity and that creepy feeling is more important than being notified if there's an accident ahead of you, if the plane of someone you are waiting for is delayed, or (in a couple of years) being automatically notified if someone you care about has had an accident and could need your help.

I'm guessing when there is one of those tubes in the road that is getting stats on how many cars are passing you must make a U turn and change your route so that your metrics can't be accounted for. And all those cameras in ATMs, malls, and basically everywhere must make you feel really uncomfortable. /s

I get that we all have priorities and preferences, but like I said AIs can't work without data. To me the benefits are self evident.
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Last time I checked Siri supported more regions and languages for all services than Google Now or Cortana. Unless you care to share reliable stats.

When was the last time you checked? 2010?

Google Now supports many more countries and languages / regional varieties than Siri.

For example Siri only supports Spanish from Spain, Mexico, and Chile.

Google Now supports Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Puerto Rico, Spain, US, Uruguay, Venezuela.

It doesn't stop here. Apple only supports a handful of cities with transit and satellite, while Google Maps / Earth supports all the planet.

Apple is really good at certain things, but as far as big data analysis goes today it simply can't compete with Google.

 

[smacrumon]

Love this comment - "It's sort of like the age old argument between privacy and security. You should have both. You shouldn't have to make a choice."

 

[gnasher729]

Does anyone seriously believe that Apple doesn't collect data on users?

There is some information that must be collected - for example, I can re-download anything I bought on the App Store, so clearly Apple must remember this.

If you ask: Does anyone seriously believe Apple doesn't collect data on users except for data that is essential for running their business? Then yes, most people seriously believe that. Because for Apple, users are customers. For Google, users are the product. Apple and Google both try hard to give their customers what they want. Apple's customers want privacy. Google's customers want information about Google's users.

 

[recoil80]

Offline Siri for iOS 11 would be a gift from heavens.

Indeed. Siri ought to work offline for simple tasks like reminder, calendar, timer and even making phone calls since data connection may be really slow but you could still be able to make a call.
For more complicated commands going online is acceptable, and most of the time the answer needs fetching data from the internet so it wouldn't work offline even if Siri was able to recognise the meaning of a request.

 

[H2SO4]

There is some information that must be collected - for example, I can re-download anything I bought on the App Store, so clearly Apple must remember this.

If you ask: Does anyone seriously believe Apple doesn't collect data on users except for data that is essential for running their business? Then yes, most people seriously believe that. Because for Apple, users are customers. For Google, users are the product. Apple and Google both try hard to give their customers what they want. Apple's customers want privacy. Google's customers want information about Google's users.

You’ve bought into the hype? Both companies use methods that aren’t a million miles apart to do things that are a million miles apart.

Because for Apple, users are customers. For Google, users are the product. So they have no customers? Yes they do and a lot of those ‘products' are also customers. Apple and Google both try hard to give their customers what they want. Apple's customers want privacy. They also knowingly use Google products as do Apple, what a bunch of hypocrites, don't tell me they switch it off as they use it when it suits - have the courage of your convictions and don't use it at all. Google’s customers want information about Google's users.

Privacy is similar to fame. You can't choose when and where you have it.

 

[MH01]

There is some information that must be collected - for example, I can re-download anything I bought on the App Store, so clearly Apple must remember this.

If you ask: Does anyone seriously believe Apple doesn't collect data on users except for data that is essential for running their business? Then yes, most people seriously believe that. Because for Apple, users are customers. For Google, users are the product. Apple and Google both try hard to give their customers what they want. Apple's customers want privacy. Google's customers want information about Google's users.

I think people need to read the privacy policy.

Here is just an extract of non-personal data, aka , they remove the Apple ID.

Google only collects a subset of this . In most cases google only gets as far as the first bullet point.

I love the last bullet point....

• We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising.
• We may collect information regarding customer activities on our website, iCloud services, our iTunes Store, App Store, Mac App Store, App Store for Apple TV and iBooks Stores and from our other products and services. This information is aggregated and used to help us provide more useful information to our customers and to understand which parts of our website, products, and services are of most interest. Aggregated data is considered non‑personal information for the purposes of this Privacy Policy.
• We may collect and store details of how you use our services, including search queries. This information may be used to improve the relevancy of results provided by our services. Except in limited instances to ensure quality of our services over the Internet, such information will not be associated with your IP address.
• With your explicit consent, we may collect data about how you use your device and applications in order to help app developers improve their apps.

 

[pika2000]

I have opted in to Google Now since day 1, letting Google full access to my Gmail, etc.... and it's crap. Sure, it kinda knows if you travel (obviously based on location), but even its flight information is inaccurate (I got more up-to-date and accurate information from Kayak), and its traffic/places recommendation is close to useless. Google advertised it like it can remind you when to stop when you are on public transit. Nope. It cannot even remind me accurately on when I have to leave.
I mean seriously, considering I have allowed Google like full access to my privacy, all I get is just annoying notification about the weather, and how I "should" go to some random place that I happened to search in the past.

Amazon? I've been a prime member for years, and 99% of Amazon recommendations are basically useless. It's either simply an item that I just happened to stumble upon (but not need), or it's the item I already bought. So much for artificial intelligence.

So yeah, Siri is not perfect. However, considering that the sacrifice of privacy only gave me measly result, I rather keep my privacy.

 

[Marli]

Siri is useless. Its just a gimmick, and frustrates the crap out of anyone who tries to use it as a real feature.

 

[kis]

Dear Tim, as soon as you've actually delivered a decent AI assistant, I'll be interested in your statements. Until then: tada.

 

[7 others]

I started integrating Siri into my everyday's tasks like setting up alarm, timers, weather inquiries etc and I must say I am impressed not only at Siri being able to understand my english (non english speaker) but also my other language. I don't need to talk to Siri and I do not want to sacrifice my privacy for the sake of Siri being conversational.

Haters gonna hate, and I do not understand why people are still defending google's privacy policy. I use tonnes of google's products and I make sure I always read what their privacy policies are before agreeing to them. Siri is not perfect, but hey, it fits into my life perfectly.
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Siri is useless. Its just a gimmick, and frustrates the crap out of anyone who tries to use it as a real feature.

have you used it? Do you mind to share your experience with Google Assistant or Alexa?
[doublepost=1477474378][/doublepost]

I have opted in to Google Now since day 1, letting Google full access to my Gmail, etc.... and it's crap. Sure, it kinda knows if you travel (obviously based on location), but even its flight information is inaccurate (I got more up-to-date and accurate information from Kayak), and its traffic/places recommendation is close to useless. Google advertised it like it can remind you when to stop when you are on public transit. Nope. It cannot even remind me accurately on when I have to leave.
I mean seriously, considering I have allowed Google like full access to my privacy, all I get is just annoying notification about the weather, and how I "should" go to some random place that I happened to search in the past.

Amazon? I've been a prime member for years, and 99% of Amazon recommendations are basically useless. It's either simply an item that I just happened to stumble upon (but not need), or it's the item I already bought. So much for artificial intelligence.

So yeah, Siri is not perfect. However, considering that the sacrifice of privacy only gave me measly result, I rather keep my privacy.

I believe that every platforms has its strengths and weakness, don't take something for granted or hope it can be a jack-of-all-trades thingy. Google still excels in search engines and Prime is still good in terms of customer service and delivery guarantee. Siri is not perfect, but it fits into my life perfectly.

 

[Hanzu Lao]

Privacy or not, it won't matter if apple can't catch up with the usability and power of competitors. MacRumors posted video link comparing Siri on the new Google assistant and googles assistant was way better than Siri

Not everyone agrees.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

tl;dr Tim didn't improve Siri quick enough, now claims due to privacy. Maybe partly true, but under the bottom line they just underestimated their competition. A mistake that Apple is making quite often recently.

LOL. Sure Tim! Siri is trash!

By the way, I would just like to point out how people get uptight about privacy, but then 5 minutes later post their entire life to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Foursquare, etc.

"That people" isn't everyone. Not even remotely.

Privacy is one of the reasons i stick with apple.

This. Apple is selling ads as well, but far less intrusive as google or facebook does.

I give as little of my personal information to Google - aka the Digital Proctologist - the company that needs to be all up in people's rear ends to be a profitable business.

It's googles primary business. Collect and analyze to deliver "the perfect ad" to maximize ad revenue.

Indeed, and Google is one of the reasons I can never own an Android phone.

Well... you can get rid of google on an Android Device... there are enough paranoid Android (and similar) phones out there. But, yes, there are a lot other reasons pro/contra Android...

 

[maflynn]

Privacy in 2016 is an illusion, sadly, but Apple's stance on privacy while admirable has put them behind. The likes of Google (do no evil - ) and Amazon have no qualms and have rolled out superior products and in Amazon case, beat apple to the home.