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So if its not considered "server grade", why do they use it in their servers? :confused:
What does that have to do with anything? It's just a regular hard drive. It's not some 'special' Enterprise drive or anything like that. Why push that it's 'server grade' at all?

If Apple used a Core 2 Duo in its servers instead of a Xeon then the Core 2 Duo would not be 'server grade'.

I appreciate that this is not a 'problem', the Time Capsule is a good buy as far as I'm concerned. But I believe that the way Apple are promoting the HDD is misleading and completely unnecessary.
 
But Apple never explained what they meant when they said server grade. They are probably perfectly entitled to say that a drive they use in their server range is considered, by them, to be server grade. Or did people complain about Apple using those drivers in the Xserve when that was announced?

People just made their own assumptions and as others have said, the term itself isn't exactly set in stone as anyone who has worked in a server environment will know.

I'm just confused as to what people thought Apple were going to put in there tbh.
 
If a consumer is comparing Time Capsule to other options, "server grade" is clearly misleading. Other USB hard drives (ie. My Book, LaCie Porsche, etc) don't stipulate "server-grade"; and if someone was to actually research hard drives, they'll clearly see that there are two classes of hard drives, the normal kind (ie. Deskstar) and the enterprise server kind (ie. Ultrastar).

At that point, the consumer, trying to figure out which is the best deal, would reasonably assume that "server-grade" meant Apple was using the "better" kind of hard drive and not just a normal one, since they're going to the trouble of specifying it... at which point Time Capsule looks like a better deal. The 1TB Ultrastar costs $350 vs. the Deskstar's $270 (at Newegg.com) making Time Capsule look like it's getting $80 of additional value, which could sway someone that was considering going the cheap route of a standalone USB drive.

I don't see how anyone (except sycophants still wrapped in the RDF) could not see that that's misleading at the very least. Whether or not the higher-grade drive is worth the extra 80 bucks is irrelevant, the point is it looks that there's additional value that you're actually not receiving. Is it worth all the whining? Maybe, maybe not, but certainly when a company that people admire engages in petty deception and then engages in word parsing, it becomes less admirable. Which explains why there's so much complaining from those that are disappointed from their "hero", and so much rabid defense from those that don't want to admit their "hero" is imperfect.

In this case, Apple's "Server-grade" seems in the spirit of Microsoft's "Vista-capable". Perhaps technically accurate, but misleading if you look at it with a common sense point of view.

In related news, Ford fans have threatened lawsuits against General Motors because they advertised the Corvette as having a high performance engine - but the engine is clearly not suitable for racing in LeMans. False advertising!!! Criminal!! Sue!!! Sue!!! Sue!!!
 
I'm just confused as to what people thought Apple were going to put in there tbh.
I had certainly hoped for something like the Seagate ES series (which seems to be in the 500GB TC), Hitachi Ultrastar or even better the WD GP-RE2 with very low noise and power consumption. Here in Denmark the latter is actually quite a bit cheaper than the Hitachi Deskstar...
Drives with higher MTBF than 'usual'.
But I agree the TC pricing seems competitive nevertheless and the whining might be slightly excessive.
 
Is Apple the only one using them in a server? Apple uses Deskstar HDDs in the XServes, so Apple can now say they're server grade? That's not really proof. It's a total conflict of interest for Apple to say they're used in servers just because THEY use them in servers. I want to see another company who uses them in their servers before I call these drives "server grade".

To use the words "server grade" means these drives are more reliable than the ones you'd see in a typical desktop. If these are drives that are typically used in desktops, not servers, then I think Apple should edit their website. If these drives were "server grade", then it implies higher reliability and standards, like Thingy said (quite well). That's not what you're getting, whether Apple also puts them into Xserves or not.


I don't know about this specific drive, but I've seen Deskstar drives in Dell servers, as well.

As for 'server grade', you're making up definitions and Apple isn't bound by your fantasies. By definition, 'server grade' means 'good enough to be used in a server'. Since Hitachi says it's server grade and Apple uses it in servers, it is BY DEFINITION server grade.
 
The distinction to remember here:

• Server-grade in marketing speak = unverifiable waffle that sounds good to the average consumer
• Server-grade to engineers and geeks = something else entirely

That way, you can be both wrong and right.

As in all things: caveat emptor.
 
Look, for all you counter-whiners out there...

They promised a V8, they shipped a V6.

They did no such thing.

If you want to use a car analogy, Apple's claim of 'server grade' drives in Time Capsule is the same as GM claiming 'high performance' engines in the Corvette.

In both cases, the term is not defined by the industry but is easily supported by facts. In both cases, there are better engines/drives out there, but the one provided meets the definition they're claiming.

So why aren't you threatening to sue GM for claiming that the Corvette has a high performance engine - when it is clearly not up to snuff as a Lemans racing engine?
 
Hmmn, bought a 3.5" hitachi Deskstar drive for my G4, and that lasted 6 months before it failed, and recently bought a 2.5" Hitachi to replace the 80GB dive in my Macbook, and that lasted 9 months before it failed.

Could just be bad luck, but I for one won't be buying any more Hitachi drives.

Replaced the failed Hitachi Macbook drive with a Seagate Momentus, BTW.

Here's hoping THAT will last a bit longer!

There were problems with Deskstar drives at one time, but they appear to have been resolved.
 
What does that have to do with anything? It's just a regular hard drive. It's not some 'special' Enterprise drive or anything like that. Why push that it's 'server grade' at all?
To differentiate its 50,000 start/stop MTBF from the 30,000 start/stop cycles of an economy drive. It would be a legitimate gripe if it weren't covered in so much crap. The "premium" upsell is the oldest trick in the advertising book. It would appear that 1TB drives from all three manufacturers at the moment are "server-grade". Redundant it may be, but outrageous it's not.

It's not like Apple invented the term to describe the Deskstars--Hitachi was already using it, rightly so. The Hitachi drive selector recommends the Ultrastar line for enterprise use and the Deskstar line for all other uses (entry level, mid-range, workstation, desktop).
If Apple used a Core 2 Duo in its servers instead of a Xeon then the Core 2 Duo would not be 'server grade'.
No, because Intel markets its Xeons for workstations and higher, not its Core line. Let's say you had a server using the E7520 chipset, and another using the enterprise E8501 chipset. They're both server chipsets (as opposed to the desktop chipsets, e.g. G35), but they're not both enterprise chipsets.
 
Hmmn, bought a 3.5" hitachi Deskstar drive for my G4, and that lasted 6 months before it failed, and recently bought a 2.5" Hitachi to replace the 80GB dive in my Macbook, and that lasted 9 months before it failed.

Could just be bad luck, but I for one won't be buying any more Hitachi drives.

Replaced the failed Hitachi Macbook drive with a Seagate Momentus, BTW.

Here's hoping THAT will last a bit longer!

Hmmm... Had a 500MB HD come stock in my Mac Pro. Still working over a year later. Tossed in a 750MB Hitachi Drive - still working fine after almost a year. Two 1TB drives? Been running over 6 months so far. No problems.

Bad luck - or you should stop dropping your MacBook all the time.
 
oh my god ...........

i think apple mojo's sig hits it on the head here

mac rumours has turned into a bitch about apple site

the cry babys on here seem to hate apple so why bother coming on here.

we know full well Steves RDF sucks us in all the time so why get pissy about it when it does.

Apple are a great company head and sholders above these churn out loads of Products that are alright companys.

if your not happy don't poison other people that hang on your every word with woffle and mis information.

if the head drive is in apples servers then it is Server grade.

it's plain and simple. :D
 
Oh! I see. Well, at least they have removed it from the "front pictures". It used to be there. So perhaps they'll get to that small one soon.

Still at http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/specs.html:

Storage
500GB or 1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA server-grade hard disk drive 3

It's also still in the section "Room for it all" at the bottom of the main frame at http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/backup.html

By the way, if Apple were to remove "server grade" from their website - wouldn't that be tantamount to an admission of false advertising? The class action lawyers would love that!
 

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Nope, they have removed it. Meaning, people "whining" about this being false advertising actually had a point, and that all the ones trying to come up with all sorts of excuses why Apple was entitled to claim one thing, and why they should be allowed to, yet deliver something are proven wrong.

By Apple themselves, nonetheless.

Not if you check the UK apple site

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=7E4EB91E&nplm=MB276#overview

Still quotes "Server Grade Storage"

Not for long I suspect:eek:
 
Still at http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/specs.html:



It's also still in the section "Room for it all" at the bottom of the main frame at http://www.apple.com/timecapsule/backup.html

By the way, if Apple were to remove "server grade" from their website - wouldn't that be tantamount to an admission of false advertising?

The metrics, MTBF are confusing (look at what's happened here; few forum members even take the short google trip to find out what it means and fewer still even understand the concept), so Apple put out a description delineating the drive from consumer drives. Now its called "false advertising", even though the standards by which apple coined the term are consistent with industry use of the drives.

Apple pulls down the page to shut off the controversy, and miraculously, it will be okay to purchase the same device tomorrow because Apple has backed down.

The difference between the Ultrastar at 1.2Mhr MTBF and the stated MTBF of the Deskstar drive of 1.0Mhr MTBF is .7 units in 100 over a period of 5 years.

3.65 failures of the Ultrastar on average vs 4.35 failures on average over 5 years with the Deskstar.

Hardly seems like false advertising to me, but heck, I just used the math.

This is a made up controversy.
 
In related news, Ford fans have threatened lawsuits against General Motors because they advertised the Corvette as having a high performance engine - but the engine is clearly not suitable for racing in LeMans. False advertising!!! Criminal!! Sue!!! Sue!!! Sue!!!

Nice try... It doesn't work because a high performance engine is not a "racing engine", they have the same issue and that is why "race bred" is the term used by most vendors when trying to compare it to what is put on a race track.

From Hitachi's own docs regarding the MTBF of the Desk Start Drives:

Low duty cycle, non mission-critical applications in PC, nearline and consumer electronics customer environments
are different from application to application. An MTBF measurement is based on a sample population and is estimated
by statistical measurements and acceleration algorithms under nearline / low duty cycle workload. MTBF ratings are
not intended to predict an individual drive’s reliability. MTBF is not a warranty measurement.
 
I appreciate that this is not a 'problem', the Time Capsule is a good buy as far as I'm concerned. But I believe that the way Apple are promoting the HDD is misleading and completely unnecessary.

agreed. seems unnecessary. I can see Apples point if it's the same hard drive as they use in XServe and in their usual way of making bullet points they shortened it to Server Grade, but it does seem misleading and unnecessary.
 
Nice try... It doesn't work because a high performance engine is not a "racing engine", they have the same issue and that is why "race bred" is the term used by most vendors when trying to compare it to what is put on a race track.

Nice try, but it's a very, very close analogy. While a performance engine is not a 'racing engine', neither is a server grade drive an enterprise drive.

Geez, I thought the analogy was clear enough that even the Apple bashing dolts would get it. I guess I have to spell it out.

Hard drives:
There are consumer drives and enterprise drives. Some drives from both categories are used in servers, although there is no exact definition for 'server drive'. MOST enterprise drives can be called server drives. A server drive is any drive which can reasonably be used in servers - but with better performance than low end drives.

Engines:
There are consumer engines and racing engines. Some drives from both categories can be called high performance, although there is no exact definition for high performance. Most racing engines can be called high performance engines. A high performance engine is any engine which can reasonably be used in cars - but with better performance than low end engines.

It's a nearly exact analogy. So complaining about Apple calling the Deskstar a server grade drive is exactly the same as complaining about GM calling the Corvette's engine 'high performance'. Apple's drive is not an enterprise drive, just as Corvette's engine is not a racing engine. But Apple's drive easily meets the requirements of 'server grade' just as the Corvette engine meets the requirements of 'high performance'.
 
THe drive is salled a DESKstar for a reason. Notice the word "desk" in the name. It specifically refers to the drive as being suitable for a desktop computer.

This argument struck me as odd and I just figured out why.

By this logic, if you put the deskstar drive into a Dell computer and then put the computer under the desk rather than on top of it, Dell would be guilty of false advertising.

Obviously, Hitachi's description of the drive's uses (including servers) is much more important than the name they gave it.
 
What's about the warranty for the harddrives in TC? Only one year too?

I think that is annoying...

Yeah..... Since when does a "server-grade" hard drive only come with a one-year warranty??

Call me crazy, but I would never buy a terabyte hard drive, or any hard drive for that matter, that only has a one-year warranty.
 
Yeah..... Since when does a "server-grade" hard drive only come with a one-year warranty??

Call me crazy, but I would never buy a terabyte hard drive, or any hard drive for that matter, that only has a one-year warranty.

Then don't.

What does that have to do with anything? By that logic, Hyundai makes better cars than Lexus. Are you going to really try to argue that?
 
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