Time to kill the Air and drop the 12" Macbook to $999.

[turbineseaplane]

There's no reason to pour all those updates into a machine with I/O that's going away. I know its painful - but we need to move forward. Like I said before - its not going to be too long before USB-A goes the way of the CD drive.

Just pop a retina screen in there - do nothing else. That would require exceptionally little on Apple's part. They aren't doing it on purpose to force the "better" (their view, not mine) new designs.

For many it would instantly become the best.

I actually am about to put a family member into a new MBA.
The value and performance and reliability that's offered are unmatched.

 

[theluggage]

There's no reason to pour all those updates into a machine with I/O that's going away.

I agree - in a few years time, everybody will be using 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3, 10Gbps USB3.1gen2, maybe even USB 3.2 and the Retina Macbook - with its single USB-C port that doesn't support anything better than a single 5Gbps 3.1gen1 channel (and that not at the same time as a 4k@60Hz display) - will be completely left behind.

Oh, sorry, you were talking about the Air, not the rMB? That's odd, because with two 5Gbps A-type USB 3 ports, the Air will support two of any USB-C device that the rMB will ever be able to drive, the 20Gbps TB2 port supports 4x the bandwidth of anything the rMB has (and, while there's no guarantee, at least an adapter for 3.1g2 or 3.2 devices is a theoretical possibility).... and you only need to buy the necessary adapters in the future, as and when you get USB-C devices, not today when every single device you have (even stuff you've just bought) has USB-A.

Or maybe everything will have gone wireless - in fact, you better hope so, because the rMB can't run a 4k@60Hz display and 1GB ethernet at the same time.

Anyhow, if Apple did want to update the Air, they could go the iMac route and just swap the existing TB2/MiniDP port for a TB3/USB-C and leave the existing ports - just causing the relatively minor annoyance of forcing people to update their VGA dongles.

its not going to be too long before USB-A goes the way of the CD drive.

That's what they said when Firewire came out. I wouldn't bet my shirt on USB-C taking over beyond the one area where cramming everything into one plug really does have an advantage - phones and tablets. OTOH, phones and tablets are likely to be the first thing to go 100% wireless and eliminate all connectors.

Even Apple is still selling systems with USB-A. Microsoft is actively shunning USB-C. Most PC laptops that do have USB-C/TB3 squeeze in a few USB-As as well. I've bought expensive devices in the last 6 months that have USB-A (and no USB-C alternative). Every USB-C drive I've looked at has included a USB-C-to-A cable.

USB-A isn't going to go the way of the CD, its going to go the way of VGA: i.e. in 17 years time our cyborg cockroach overlords will still force their human slaves to carry their USB-A adapters just in case.

Worst case with an Air: in 3 years time, the donglegate boot is going to be on the other foot (except you'll have accumulated your adapter collection gradually over the years).

I'm not even sure the CD went the way of the CD - the iTunes store opened in 2003, Apple dropped CD/DVD distribution of MacOS in 2011, released MBPs with no optical drive in 2012 but also updated the classic MBP to the latest processor at the same time and finally dropped the 13" Classic in, what 2016? Last I looked, Apple were still selling Superdrives. That's 12 years from the writing going on the wall to not-quite-extinct.

 

[Melrose]

So I'm fully willing to admit that my personal opinions on the Air don't jive with what EVERYONE thinks about the device....

But you're going fully the other direction with this tripe. My sister took a rMB to college with her - loves it. Has had no issues with it. For web, office, photos, media consumption - it all works for her.


....ad infinitum....

It's not tripe. Labelling it as such reveals more about your approach to the subject than mine. My singular point is the rMB isn't a work machine - it's overpriced for the power, connectivity, and usability it provides. Nothing you've said in your specious verbiage contradicts anything I've said. And then you yourself just admitted your sister bought a dock out of lack of connectivity on her rMB...my point exactly! Your sister loves it and doesn't mind buying unnecessary and yet oddly required accoutreménts in order to increase it's usefulness - and that's perfectly fine because it's her money and her opinion . Whether she uses it regularly or not doesn't disown the fact she felt compelled to buy one in the first place due to lack of connective options. A college student's use does not typify the computing requirements of someone who has a job that requires them.

I'm confused as to where you imagine the spoliation of agreement lies... in the meantime, I congratulate you on having such a modern and forward-leaning perception, but it's hardly a realistic one in the current era, and utterly irrelevant for the people in this thread who have proffered their opinions in favor of the Air.

 

[AFEPPL]

It's not tripe. Labelling it as such reveals more about your approach to the subject than mine. My singular point is the rMB isn't a work machine - it's overpriced for the power, connectivity, and usability it provides. Nothing you've said in your specious verbiage contradicts anything I've said. And then you yourself just admitted your sister bought a dock out of lack of connectivity on her rMB...my point exactly! Your sister loves it and doesn't mind buying unnecessary and yet oddly required accoutreménts in order to increase it's usefulness. Whether she uses it regularly or not doesn't disown the fact she felt compelled to buy one in the first place due to lack of connective options. A college student does not typify the computing requirements of someone who has a job that requires them.

I'm confused as to where you imagine the spoliation of agreement lies... in the meantime, I congratulate you on having such a modern and forward-leaning perception, but it's hardly a realistic one in the current era, and utterly irrelevant for the people in this thread who have proffered their opinions in favor of the Air.

But that's your opinion... The rMB has MORE power and is more portability than the MBA, we've covered this to death with benchmarks and it's beyond doubt or debate, so it's actually more a of a work machine for the majority of business users. Why do you and others believe a dock is bad, but forget you need a dongle for the MBA, whats the difference? Small, light and it's not like carrying a 4kg monitor with you. I bet many professionals carry a least one additional battery for their iPhones that simply don't have the capacity to get us though a day.

Universities/college is all about online and the future via cloud services - why would legacy be of interest? I'd wager students in the main buy (assuming they do) the MBA based on cost only not connectivity when they choice a laptop based device over a tablet. I don't hear the students who are going IPP (of which there are many) screaming about the lack of ports or not been able to complete their courses. Legacy devices/ports are just that, they are simply not needed in most cases.

I fully agree the rMB should be cheaper, (indeed id say every apple product is over priced) I also agree the TB has a limited use case right now (but it's not offered on the rMB anyway so is not really a point, not that you made that one above).

I work for a very large tech company and haven't used either a DVD or USB device for 2 years. In the last 5 years i'd be pushed to remember a time when i had more than a single port in use. Maybe i and my peers live in a utopia or are more adaptive to technology based on where we work.

Anyone remember or still use floppy drives?

 

[Boyd01]

Maybe i and my peers live in a utopia or are more adaptive to technology based on where we work.

Apparently you don't work with software like Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro where you need a bunch of USB peripherals. My little 11" MBA is not ideal for that kind of thing, but it works and the size/weight/battery life are a big plus when you're already lugging a pro video tripod and heavy camera with mattebox.

Sounds like you work at a great place, since you have so much free time to devote to complaining about a computer that you don't even own.

 

[Erdbeertorte]

If they keep selling it for the next maybe 3-5 years they should at least upgrade to recent chipsets and don't stay on Broadwell forever at the same price (or even raise it outside the USA) like they did with the Mid-2012 13-inch MBP what stayed on Ivy Bridge until it was discontinued by the end of October 2016 and only got a price drop in 2014 because the first Late 2012 13-inch Retinas were way overpriced and already got a price drop in February 2013.

Everything on the outer side could stay the same (USB-A ports also support 3.1 Gen. 2). It should be Kaby Lake already. So that clueless people won't buy way outdated hardware (mainly CPU/iGPU) for the same price they would have payed years ago.

An unnoticeable CPU frequency increase and doubled amount of old RAM what should be cost-wise the same or less for Apple is not enough and pure greed. I assume they also kept the much slower and now way cheaper flash storage in the 2016 and 2017 (Early 2015) "updates" although it is not even soldered to the board.

 

[Melrose]

Apparently you don't work with software like Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro where you need a bunch of USB peripherals. My little 11" MBA is not ideal for that kind of thing, but it works and the size/weight/battery life are a big plus when you're already lugging a pro video tripod and heavy camera with mattebox.

Sounds like you work at a great place, since you have so much free time to devote to complaining about a computer that you don't even own.

Well said.

...and as I've repeatedly attested, my typical workload on any odd day will include iTunes, Safari, Chrome, Firefox, Xcode, CS6 (Photoshop and sometimes Illustrator) where high resolution art is usually being prepared, Mail, and an assortment of other system processes that aid my workflow. This is all sent to an HD 22" monitor without a single glitch, hiccup, or stutter and it toggles easily and quickly from one app to the next without a pause.

When I got through only the first few of this list to the Apple Store guy he told me to not even look at the Retina MacBook because I'd have grief. I've since learned from other people with similar workloads that the Retina MacBook regular hiccups on stuff like this...and that's without a peripheral monitor.

And some soi-disant "adapative utopia" internet user thinks I'm going to throw experience and industry recommendations aside just because he talks about his missing floppy drive and his sister's college student-level workload.

Oh if only we all could live in the 1st World Adaptive Utopia because it sounds like a nice place. Unfortunately everyone I've ever known lives in the real world.

But that's your opinion... The rMB has MORE power and is more portability than the MBA, we've covered this to death with benchmarks and it's beyond doubt or debate, so it's actually more a of a work machine for the majority of business users.

But I don't care what business users need, and that wasn't my point in the first place...or were you deliberately not paying attention? The rMB is a fine and dandy little computer. It really, genuinely is a solid little laptop. But it's not - not, by any logical standard - well suited to more than light workloads or exceedingly minor connectivity, and you've admitted this yourself with the Potemkin Village example of your sister. It's a laptop created purely for people who want a nice looking portable, that's not a tablet, that they can use at a coffee shop, tackle spreadsheets and business email with aplomb, and be future-proof (or we could use the words adaptive and utopian) for a 2 or 3 years to come.

- - -

The odd little tidbit here is that people take what the Air was intended to be - a premium ultraportable...hence it's continued and unjustified comparison to the rMB - and forget to factor in what it has become, by some possibly unplanned and awesome af transmogrification: A Macintosh notebook at an entry-level price point that can actually do some heavy lifting.

 

[AFEPPL]

Apparently you don't work with software like Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro where you need a bunch of USB peripherals. My little 11" MBA is not ideal for that kind of thing, but it works and the size/weight/battery life are a big plus when you're already lugging a pro video tripod and heavy camera with mattebox.

Sounds like you work at a great place, since you have so much free time to devote to complaining about a computer that you don't even own.

No i don't work with those apps, I work in technology, for a tech company as stated previously.
These guys do and are raving about it on the rMB.

I do/did own one, read back. it's in the back of the wardrobe.
I dont own a rMB however, if that makes any difference?

And the rMB is just as suited to a workload as an MBA is from a performance point of view - but you need a dock if you want legacy connections. Just buy a surface device.

 

[gobikerider]

Why? Why is it past time to kill off the MBA? Some say that but never explain why.

If you spend $1000 on a MacBook Air in 2017 your buying a computer from 2014 when you can go buy iPad Pro for less that'll run circles around it or even "gasp" a windows ultra book for less that will also would perform better and have a nicer screen as well. If you like Apple then finance a MBP or get a iPad Pro as they are becoming increasingly capable as well but don't go spend $1000 on a computer three years out of date... THAT is a waste of money.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If you spend $1000 on a MacBook Air in 2017 your buying a computer from 2014 when you can go buy iPad Pro for less that'll run circles around it or even "gasp" a windows ultra book for less that will also would perform better and have a nicer screen as well. If you like Apple then finance a MBP or get a iPad Pro as they are becoming increasingly capable as well but don't go spend $1000 on a computer three years out of date... THAT is a waste of money.

Perhaps "your" forgetting that the MBA does things no iPad can do.

 

[gobikerider]

I said finance the MBP, not the iPad Pro and that feature gap is only getting smaller between the iPad and Macs

 

[turbineseaplane]

I said finance the MBP, not the iPad Pro and that feature gap is only getting smaller between the iPad and Macs

My error, sorry - The point remains though.
Financing either of them is a horrible idea.

Also, I totally disagree about the features situation.
There's a whole realm of things you can do with Macs that will likely never be addressed by iOS devices. It's much more than any sort of features gap that's closing - it's different directions and capabilities entirely for many situations.

 

[Boyd01]

If you spend $1000 on a MacBook Air in 2017 your a idiot

Might be a good idea to do a spell/grammar check before calling someone else an idiot.

 

[sracer]

I said finance the MBP, not the iPad Pro and that feature gap is only getting smaller between the iPad and Macs

Financing a computer (as an individual person, not a company) is the most foolish financial advice one can give... one step below sending money to a Nigerian prince to help them release their inheritance.

 

[gobikerider]

Financing a computer (as an individual person, not a company) is the most foolish financial advice one can give... one step below sending money to a Nigerian prince to help them release their inheritance.

Not really for some people its the difference between buying one and not being able to. Especially with a Mac finacing it for a year isn't that big a deal considering you'll keep the thing for 6+ years

 

[sracer]

If you spend $1000 on a MacBook Air in 2017 your buying a computer from 2014 when you can go buy iPad Pro for less that'll run circles around it or even "gasp" a windows ultra book for less that will also would perform better and have a nicer screen as well. If you like Apple then finance a MBP or get a iPad Pro as they are becoming increasingly capable as well but don't go spend $1000 on a computer three years out of date... THAT is a waste of money.

This is a straw man argument. No one need pay $1000 for a brand new Macbook Air. Retail outlets regularly run sales on them. Just recently, Best Buy had a sale that was $250 off. Back when I purchased my 11" Macbook Air, it was on sale for $650 and after additional incentives, I walked out with it paying only $450 (tax included).

Not really for some people its the difference between buying one and not being able to. Especially with a Mac finacing it for a year isn't that big a deal considering you'll keep the thing for 6+ years

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I hope those tuning in to this thread take a more wise approach to their finances.

It is an easy thing to say, "don't buy a Macbook Air, buy a Macbook Pro instead". But that is not universally applicable advice. This forum is filled with people who are ditching their older Macbook Pros for iPads and iPad Pros. That indicates that (A) their needs changed since they first purchased their MBP, or (B) They "over-bought" for their computing needs.

One cannot always anticipate how or if their computing needs change, but over-buying is something that can be avoided. The typical response to the advice of avoid over-buying, is attempting to instill doubt and uncertainty like, "well, you never know what you're going to need, better to spend more and have it than not to." That "peace of mind" doesn't come free. As long as people are aware of these things, then they can make well-informed decisions.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Not really for some people its the difference between buying one and not being able to. Especially with a Mac finacing it for a year isn't that big a deal considering you'll keep the thing for 6+ years

I think such a person would be far better off buying a preowned Mac.

The initial depreciation hit on Macs has become almost like new cars. They hold value very well over the long run, but that first major drop-off in value is usually large, especially if an updates comes out, and that's precisely what a person financing new would be exposed to. It's even worse for iPads.

Over the last several years just watching my local CL, it's shocking how many amazing pre-owned deals are out there for really nice Macs. It's a much much smarter decision to save a touch and buy a great deal on a Mac you'll own and has already depreciated out the big hit.

 

[gobikerider]

The

I think such a person would be far better off buying a preowned Mac.

The initial depreciation hit on Macs has become almost like new cars. They hold value very well over the long run, but that first major drop-off in value is usually large, especially if an updates comes out, and that's precisely what a person financing new would be exposed to. It's even worse for iPads.

Over the last several years just watching my local CL, it's shocking how many amazing pre-owned deals are out there for really nice Macs. It's a much much smarter decision to save a touch and buy a great deal on a Mac you'll own and has already depreciated out the big hit.

Good point I didn't think of the certified used ones.
[doublepost=1503088970][/doublepost]

This is a straw man argument. No one need pay $1000 for a brand new Macbook Air. Retail outlets regularly run sales on them. Just recently, Best Buy had a sale that was $250 off. Back when I purchased my 11" Macbook Air, it was on sale for $650 and after additional incentives, I walked out with it paying only $450 (tax included).




You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I hope those tuning in to this thread take a more wise approach to their finances.

It is an easy thing to say, "don't buy a Macbook Air, buy a Macbook Pro instead". But that is not universally applicable advice. This forum is filled with people who are ditching their older Macbook Pros for iPads and iPad Pros. That indicates that (A) their needs changed since they first purchased their MBP, or (B) They "over-bought" for their computing needs.

One cannot always anticipate how or if their computing needs change, but over-buying is something that can be avoided. The typical response to the advice of avoid over-buying, is attempting to instill doubt and uncertainty like, "well, you never know what you're going to need, better to spend more and have it than not to." That "peace of mind" doesn't come free. As long as people are aware of these things, then they can make well-informed decisions.

You got a good deal on that Air, I would not pay more then $500 for the air today anyways, its total entirely overpriced at $999. The new iPad Pro's I would argue for basic computing needs is a far superior value compared to the MBA.

 

[Mainsail]

Financing a computer (as an individual person, not a company) is the most foolish financial advice one can give... one step below sending money to a Nigerian prince to help them release their inheritance.

So true. In general, never finance a rapidly depreciating asset, and consumer electronics are the poster child for rapid depreciation due to obsolescence.

 

[gobikerider]

So true. In general, never finance a rapidly depreciating asset, and consumer electronics are the poster child for rapid depreciation due to obsolescence.

I mean cars do the same thing though tbh. We still finance those.

 

[Mainsail]

I mean cars do the same thing though tbh. We still finance those.

Your right. Many people finance their cars. Of course, it depends on the interest rate, but if you are getting a real low rate, they might be hammering you on the price. Always negotiate a cash price first, then discuss terms. I always paid cash for my cars, but I drive older cars.....and when I buy new, I keep the car for at least a decade.

Anyway, when I was just starting out (almost 40 years ago), I was taught to avoid consumer debt. On the other hand, I was also taught that a home mortgage (not speculation) can be productive debt if you buy in a good area with a history of long term appreciation. Financing = Leverage. Leverage is great if an asset appreciates, and it sucks if the asset depreciates.

 

[johannnn]

Drop the Air? But that's the only laptop with a decent keyboard I'm tired of stuck keys.

 

[tentales]

Time to kill this thread already. The list of armchair CEOs wanting to tell Apple what they should do and others what they should buy is growing long and getting old.

IMHO the MBA is one of the best sweet-spot laptops on the market, especially with the lower sale prices these days in comparison to all the newer MBPs/rMBs .

It's not an embarrassment for Apple, but rather for the marketing-beaten suckers to always value new over old and to diss others not agreeing with their opinions, while so willing to dish out bigger bucks for shinier niftier gadgets.

The MBA has a lot of followers still, including MR dedicating a comments sections on their front page for it.
For myself and a lot of others, the somewhat lacking screen is more than made up for by it's quality keyboard, port selection, battery life, mag-safe tripping saver, sd card slot, swappable flash drive and easily upgradeable, non-glued internal battery and many other "little things".

My needs are perfectly met and I don't need to trash anyone else's choice to feel good about my own.
So please, retire this debate instead of the Air..

 

[Melrose]

Time to kill this thread already. The list of armchair CEOs wanting to tell Apple what they should do and others what they should buy is growing long and getting old.

IMHO the MBA is one of the best sweet-spot laptops on the market, especially with the lower sale prices these days in comparison to all the newer MBPs/rMBs .

It's not an embarrassment for Apple, but rather for the marketing-beaten suckers to always value new over old and to diss others not agreeing with their opinions, while so willing to dish out bigger bucks for shinier niftier gadgets.

The MBA has a lot of followers still, including MR dedicating a comments sections on their front page for it.
For myself and a lot of others, the somewhat lacking screen is more than made up for by it's quality keyboard, port selection, battery life, mag-safe tripping saver, sd card slot, swappable flash drive and easily upgradeable, non-glued internal battery and many other "little things".

My needs are perfectly met and I don't need to trash anyone else's choice to feel good about my own.
So please, retire this debate instead of the Air..

I agree. I'm done.

I'm all for posting in these threads when they're from someone who's genuinely interested in how the Air compares or performs. Then you get condescending people who use fallacious arguments and can't let opinions rest. And as happens so often on the internet, the ignorance delivers a very high signal-to-noise ratio by page 2 or 3.

 

[michaelsviews]

So, there was an underwhelming upgrade to the Macbook Air at this year's WWDC. I see no reason for Apple to keep on selling it. Why do they insist on milking customers for their money?

The 12" Macbook uses a Core M chip. There are similarly spec'd Windows PCs at under $800 (ex:/ Yoga 710).

Ideal lineup:

Macbook - $999
Macbook Pro 13 - starting at $1199
Macbook Pro 13 w/ Touch Bar - starting at $1499
Macbook Pro 15 - Starting at $1799

They would still make profit, as many customers would opt for the $1199 Pro.

The entry level 12" Macbook can still sell the same volume as the Air did.

Time to kill your account for this post. This subject has been beaten to death.

Buy what works for you. Financing a computer maybe the only choice for some people off to university or just getting starting in another field that requires a laptop.