Time to kill the Air and drop the 12" Macbook to $999.

[sracer]

That's where you lost me.
If they do anything to the Air in the future, they need to give it a Retina screen.
It's just time for that. That's the one feature that has made a few of my Air friends leave it.
It becomes difficult if they have a 4k external, retina iPads, retina iPhones, 4k HDR TV's... The Air screen just starts to become hard not to notice (in a bad way).

2-3 years ago I would agree with you - But in 2018+, all their laptops need to be Retina (IMO)

I don't see why the Air "needs" retina. If a person needs a retina screen, Apple offers quite a few notebook options for them. If one needs a retina screen AND additional ports, there is the Macbook Pro. Why can't Apple offer a wider variety of options?

I really like what Apple did with the iPhone SE. It is my favorite phone to-date. They can go hog-wild with their flagship phones (which I would never buy). But just because I won't buy one doesn't mean I want them to stop making them.

Same with the Macbook Air. I own a variety of macOS devices, but the Macbook Air is my favorite. Apple can go hog-wild with their fancy retina Macbooks, Macbook Pros, etc. (which I would never buy again) but that doesn't mean I want them to stop producing them.

My 2014 4/128 11" MBA is over 3 years old, still running great. But when I need to replace it, I'll be looking for another Macbook Air. (even if only the 13" remains)

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I don't see why the Air "needs" retina. If a person needs a retina screen, Apple offers quite a few notebook options for them. If one needs a retina screen AND additional ports, there is the Macbook Pro. Why can't Apple offer a wider variety of options?

I really like what Apple did with the iPhone SE. It is my favorite phone to-date. They can go hog-wild with their flagship phones (which I would never buy). But just because I won't buy one doesn't mean I want them to stop making them.

Same with the Macbook Air. I own a variety of macOS devices, but the Macbook Air is my favorite. Apple can go hog-wild with their fancy retina Macbooks, Macbook Pros, etc. (which I would never buy again) but that doesn't mean I want them to stop producing them.

My 2014 4/128 11" MBA is over 3 years old, still running great. But when I need to replace it, I'll be looking for another Macbook Air. (even if only the 13" remains)

Great post.

And not only because I agree with every word.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If one needs a retina screen AND additional ports, there is the Macbook Pro.

Umm - You sure about that?
Additional ports on the Pro?

I don't see why the Air "needs" retina.

Kidding aside...Nobody actually "needs" retina, you are right.

I just think that Retina is table stakes at this point. Beyond even the resolution, the color gamuts and brightness are both expanding and really it's just past time for Retina across the line.

Even your iPhone SE example - It's Retina too of course.

Honestly this debate doesn't matter anyway...
Apple doesn't care.
They will never update the Air like we are discussing I don't think.

 

[sevvere]

Ive been looking at Airs on the local online classified site. Resale for 2016 model is around $650. I might just wait till best buy had a big sale on the Airs.

There is no way I'm spending $1000 on an air today. Nor will I slender $1450 on a 15w macbook pro with one extra port in the wrong standard. Want to update my iPad air 1 and refuse to pay over $1000 for 10.5 (conver, fast charging accessories including) and when I think about $430 on lesser iPad... I find myself willing to deal with my slow iPad one year longer.

Apples pricing used to be ridiculous. Now they have become insulting.

 

[theluggage]

I just think that Retina is table stakes at this point. Beyond even the resolution, the color gamuts and brightness are both expanding and really it's just past time for Retina across the line.

...if it can be delivered in a sub-$1000 laptop. Most of Apple's competitors are still relying on 1080p displays for their sub-$1000 machines, so a "retina" MacBook Air at a sub-$1000 price would be a bit of an un-Apple-like bargain.

Maybe they could keep the Air non-retina but still improve the display? 1680x1050 would be an improvement, and give the same text/icon size as the default "looks like" resolution Apple uses on 13" retina displays. Trouble is, one of the charms of the Air is the 16x10 display - so Apple lose the economy of being able to use the common-as-muck 1080p 16:9 panels.

There is no way I'm spending $1000 on an air today. Nor will I slender $1450 on a 15w macbook pro with one extra port in the wrong standard.

...at least you've narrowed it down to the two relevant choices instead of the red herring that is the 12" rMB.

One uncomfortable truth is that the price of laptops is going up generally - looking at competing premium laptops such as the Dell XPS13 range, I'm seeing $1680 for the cheapest InifinityEdge (i.e. retina) display and $800-$1250 for their non-retina options.

...but, unlike Apple, Dell, Lenovo, HP et. al. have cheaper laptop ranges starting from $200. The problem with Apple's upwards price creep is that they're starting from $1000 so as they price people out of the market, they'll also price them off the platform.

And, yeah, the non-TB MBP's connectivity is good on paper - in terms of raw bandwidth - but highly impractical (c.f. the Dell XPS, which has TB3/USB-C and USB-A and SD-Card and a regular charging socket (so a single-wire TB3 dock is an optional luxury not an expensive necessity).

 

[Falhófnir]

...if it can be delivered in a sub-$1000 laptop. Most of Apple's competitors are still relying on 1080p displays for their sub-$1000 machines, so a "retina" MacBook Air at a sub-$1000 price would be a bit of an un-Apple-like bargain.

Maybe they could keep the Air non-retina but still improve the display? 1680x1050 would be an improvement, and give the same text/icon size as the default "looks like" resolution Apple uses on 13" retina displays. Trouble is, one of the charms of the Air is the 16x10 display - so Apple lose the economy of being able to use the common-as-muck 1080p 16:9 panels.



...at least you've narrowed it down to the two relevant choices instead of the red herring that is the 12" rMB.

One uncomfortable truth is that the price of laptops is going up generally - looking at competing premium laptops such as the Dell XPS13 range, I'm seeing $1680 for the cheapest InifinityEdge (i.e. retina) display and $800-$1250 for their non-retina options.

...but, unlike Apple, Dell, Lenovo, HP et. al. have cheaper laptop ranges starting from $200. The problem with Apple's upwards price creep is that they're starting from $1000 so as they price people out of the market, they'll also price them off the platform.

And, yeah, the non-TB MBP's connectivity is good on paper - in terms of raw bandwidth - but highly impractical (c.f. the Dell XPS, which has TB3/USB-C and USB-A and SD-Card and a regular charging socket (so a single-wire TB3 dock is an optional luxury not an expensive necessity).

The 1680x1050 is only the default for the 15” (and then it’s not actually the native retina resolution which is 1440x900, same as the air but @2x) - think it’d look pretty tiny on a 13” screen. 1920x1200 panels can’t be that unusual, all they have to do is cut them to a different size/ aspect. Really I think they just want to keep the screen as a real downside to the machine to upsell people to the more expensive machines.

I agree on the pricing, probably for most people the base model is already towards the top end of what they want to be paying for an ultrabook, and getting (for example) a bare minimum 256gb storage on an air takes you up to a price where that screen is a real issue for the sort of money you’re paying.

 

[theluggage]

The 1680x1050 is only the default for the 15”

Sorry - my mistake. I knew they were shipping in "scaled mode" rather than native pixel-doubled mode. Forgot that the Air already had a higher-res display than the old non-retina 13" MBP.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Really I think they just want to keep the screen as a real downside to the machine to upsell people to the more expensive machines.

We have a winner!

 

[cincygolfgrrl]

I'll never understand why some think Apple should only sell products they, themselves, would want. Apple sells what makes money for them. If you want Apple to act differently, get elected to the board of directors and plead your case.

Those of us who continue to use our MacBook Airs to do actual work are aware of retina screens. We willingly acknowledge they look fabulous. But for what we do with our computers, fabulosity isn't a consideration. So please, go hang out in your retinafied forums.

 

[turbineseaplane]

We willingly acknowledge they look fabulous.

So you'd buy the MBA if it had a retina screen.
That's the point. There is no actual downside to retina at this point.

Neither cost nor battery life is an issue in 2017 and beyond.
Apple is simply withholding it to drive upsells.

It's a gouge move, nothing else.

It's really frustrating for those that love everything about the MBA save for the very old screen tech. If they popped a retina screen in the existing MBA it would instantly be their most popular machine.

 

[Pugly]

One uncomfortable truth is that the price of laptops is going up generally - looking at competing premium laptops such as the Dell XPS13 range, I'm seeing $1680 for the cheapest InifinityEdge (i.e. retina) display and $800-$1250 for their non-retina options.

...but, unlike Apple, Dell, Lenovo, HP et. al. have cheaper laptop ranges starting from $200. The problem with Apple's upwards price creep is that they're starting from $1000 so as they price people out of the market, they'll also price them off the platform.

That seems to be the trend. I don't think Apple's mainstream entry laptop has ever been this neglected. The white polycarbonate's were great computers for the time and frequently updated. They even got a unibody design around 2010, when the Air's started to get mainstream. And the Air redesign even had a $999 model, it needed some sacrifices to get there... but it started at a great price.

I'm happy I was able to sneak in and buy the 11" about 6 months before they were discontinued. Hopefully Apple doesn't stop giving this Mac OS updates for no particular reason...

 

[pika2000]

Apple is keeping the Macbook Air because we are still transitioning to USB-C. Apple doesn't want to put money into redesigning a new product with legacy ports, so they just keep the Air in the lineup. Once USB-C become more common place, I'm sure the Air will be gone.

Or, Apple is waiting for the right time to have an Ax powered Macbook as baseline. So right now, they just put the Air as a placeholder.

 

[Falhófnir]

Apple is keeping the Macbook Air because we are still transitioning to USB-C. Apple doesn't want to put money into redesigning a new product with legacy ports, so they just keep the Air in the lineup. Once USB-C become more common place, I'm sure the Air will be gone.

Or, Apple is waiting for the right time to have an Ax powered Macbook as baseline. So right now, they just put the Air as a placeholder.

Think if that was the case they’d have replaced the TB2 port on the Air with a TB3 to encourage even more accessory change over... really I thinkit’s as simple as they just can’t yet get the margins they want selling any other of their laptops at $999

 

[pika2000]

Think if that was the case they’d have replaced the TB2 port on the Air with a TB3 to encourage even more accessory change over... really I thinkit’s as simple as they just can’t yet get the margins they want selling any other of their laptops at $999

That could be it as well. Apple is quite strict in their supply chain, so it could be the volume of the retina MacBook and/or its components are not sufficient yet to lower its price.

 

[theluggage]

Apple doesn't want to put money into redesigning a new product with legacy ports

USB-A is only a "legacy port" in Apple's "thinner is better"-obsessed imagination. It isn't going away any time soon.

I've bought 3-4 new bits of USB-A equipment this year - and I also presume that all the companies who have spent the last year or two desperately grinding out docks and adapters have done their market research. Note the rarity of any USB-C/TB3 hubs/docks with extra USB-C ports - even if I replaced all my USB-A peripherals (or their cables) with USB-C ones I would be hard-pressed to provide enough USB-C ports to connect them... j

Maybe Apple has got the message given that the iMac (and the forthcoming iMac Pro) have kept their USB-A ports and just swapped the Thunderbolt 2/miniDP with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C. That could easily be done with the Air or an Air-like design.

No, the Air situation just represents Apple's new policy of only designing new models for new, higher price-points, and letting old models take care of the entry level - just like they're doing with the iPhone.

 

[Falhófnir]

USB-A is only a "legacy port" in Apple's "thinner is better"-obsessed imagination. It isn't going away any time soon.

I've bought 3-4 new bits of USB-A equipment this year - and I also presume that all the companies who have spent the last year or two desperately grinding out docks and adapters have done their market research. Note the rarity of any USB-C/TB3 hubs/docks with extra USB-C ports - even if I replaced all my USB-A peripherals (or their cables) with USB-C ones I would be hard-pressed to provide enough USB-C ports to connect them... j

Maybe Apple has got the message given that the iMac (and the forthcoming iMac Pro) have kept their USB-A ports and just swapped the Thunderbolt 2/miniDP with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C. That could easily be done with the Air or an Air-like design.

No, the Air situation just represents Apple's new policy of only designing new models for new, higher price-points, and letting old models take care of the entry level - just like they're doing with the iPhone.

I agree re USB A, Apple are kidding themselves if they think the Mac has enough industry influence to push things over to a new standard unilaterally - Windows world is the driving force behind standards, and so far they’ve made only token moves towards USB C (most devices still only have one) while retaining 2-3 USB A ports. By the time this whole MacBook Pro design cycle is over in 2-3 years, and Apple have a new design out, at best we’ll probably only just be at the point of parity between the two connectors. What they perhaps have done is provide a line of computers that manufacturers can start making USB C accessories for, but that could have been the case even retaining a single USB A port on the new design for ‘legacy’ compatibility. From a premium company whose motto is meant to be ‘it just works’ it’s not particularly good consideration of user experience.

 

[cincygolfgrrl]

So you'd buy the MBA if it had a retina screen.

That's not at all what I said. I have a 2011 11" 4/128 MBA. It does everything I ask of it. It's received every new OS within a week of release since the day I bought it. It is the perfect computer FOR ME. I don't presume to define the perfect computer for you or anyone else.

If Apple dropped a retina screen in an MBA they'd put one of those silly keyboards in it too. People would buy it, but they'd gripe about it. And keys would fail. And it would be less than what currently exists all for the love of a screen, which we've already said we don't need.

Apple will discontinue the MBA soon enough. Chill. Go fire up your PT-6.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If Apple dropped a retina screen in an MBA they'd put one of those silly keyboards in it too.

Obviously if they started going and doing stuff like that it's killing the idea, no question.

I think those of us hoping for a MacBook Air SE type of thing would hope it would follow in the vain of the SE itself and not change much beyond spec bumps (screen being one of them).

To your point (and mine earlier) - The MBA is DOA anyways, so it's all just forum fodder.

Have a good Sunday
[doublepost=1508683727][/doublepost]

start making USB C accessories

That's my huge frustration with the all USB-C move.
Apple didn't support the change with enough first party accessories and support.

Hell, they even tried to push off the monitor duties to LG with that garbage they ended up putting out (and now Apple will make a monitor again). Big mistakes.

 

[ZapNZs]

I agree re USB A, Apple are kidding themselves if they think the Mac has enough industry influence to push things over to a new standard unilaterally - Windows world is the driving force behind standards, and so far they’ve made only token moves towards USB C (most devices still only have one) while retaining 2-3 USB A ports. By the time this whole MacBook Pro design cycle is over in 2-3 years, and Apple have a new design out, at best we’ll probably only just be at the point of parity between the two connectors. What they perhaps have done is provide a line of computers that manufacturers can start making USB C accessories for, but that could have been the case even retaining a single USB A port on the new design for ‘legacy’ compatibility. From a premium company whose motto is meant to be ‘it just works’ it’s not particularly good consideration of user experience.

I think Apple pictured a smoother transition than has actually been occurring. USB-C is better in every way than USB-A - and, in many cases, dramatically better - with one exception: current convenience.

Some new USB devices are still USB-A & USB 2.0 - a standard that was replaced nearly a decade ago with the 3.0 (now 3.1 gen 1) standard, and did not require a change in physical connectors, and yet USB 2.0 has endured (partly because USB 2.0 does not cause WiFi interference with 2.4 GHz signals like 3.1 does -- even the MacBook/MBP charge cable still uses the 2.0 standard!) Many larger companies still have huge stock of USB-A/2.0 devices/cables and are not going to update them in most cases given a huge investment cost - heck, many of these companies are still using machines with 2nd/3rd gen Core CPUs, Windows 7, and ones that may not even support the 3.0/3.1 gen 1 standard.

The retina MacBook is working great for me as a replacement to my older Air. However, my workstation is a 2014 MBPr 15, being used with 15+ wired devices, and I am still using the older USB-A @ 2.0 speed, Thunderbolt 2, and eSATA connections extensively. Especially if a system is going to be one's only computer, I can absolutely see why the MBA is a better match than both the retina MacBook and non-touchbar MacBook Pro for many Users.
[doublepost=1508690149][/doublepost]

That's my huge frustration with the all USB-C move.
Apple didn't support the change with enough first party accessories and support.

Hell, they even tried to push off the monitor duties to LG with that garbage they ended up putting out (and now Apple will make a monitor again). Big mistakes.

I find this somewhat frustrating as well, and a bit perplexing as to why this wasn't done in the first place.

IMO Apple should have offered USB IF-Certified docks and hubs that supply charging power, and ones that include multiple USB-C ports on the dock as well (rather than one USB-C port and a bunch of USB-A ports.) This would address the numerous concerns I have about using third party USB-C docks with passthrough charging/charge cables that are NOT IF-Certified (considering how we have seen that many USB-C charging-related items can ruin a device if improperly designed given the amount of power USB-C can now support), and offer easy accessibility for those transitioning (I would pay a premium price for an Apple-branded product like this.)

Further, Apple could have also released a reliable wireless SD card reader - again addressing User need (much like introducing the awesome AirPods when removing the headphone jack from the iPhone 7, and ultimately giving owners such an awesome alternative that all was well.)

 

[theluggage]

USB-C is better in every way than USB-A

The problem is, that's simply not true, at best there are a lot of swings and roundabouts - especially when you start fitting it to full-featured laptops and desktops, and when you remember that, on Apple laptops, it is not just replacing USB-A but a whole host of other connectors.

Yes, physically, reversible USB-C connectors are nicer to use than either USB-A, and are certainly a vast improvement c.f. MicroUSB.

In terms of driving USB peripherals, though, its important to realise that a USB-C connector simply carries the same old, 1 x USB 3.1 + 1 x USB 2 signal as the USB-A (and, yes, you can run USB 10Gbps 3.1gen2 over USB-A - several PC motherboards have USB 3.1g2 ports). The vast majority of single disc drives, flash sticks, mice, printers, MIDI devices etc. gain no advantage from USB-C apart from the reversible connector.

Now, USB 3.2 is coming, and that will allow USB-C cables to carry 2 sets of USB 3.1, but not with existing computers or peripherals - and, of course, not in combination with DisplayPort or HDMI.

So, how about combining all of those functions - USB3.1, DisplayPort, charging, Thunderbolt, Audio... - onto one port? Well, that's great on a phone or tablet, where there may only be space for a single connector - but that's the one place Apple aren't using USB-C, and mobiles/tablets will probably be the first devices to go fully wireless and hermetically sealed. On full-featured computers, which have space for a few ports, it's mainly a needless complication - The old 13" rMBP could simultaneously connect to two USB devices (each with 5Gbps bandwidth), a mini DisplayPort display, a Thunderbolt device (or a HDMI display and two Thunderbolt devices), a charger and have a SD card plugged in. The new non-touch rMBP may have, on paper, more bandwidth thanks to TB3, but in practice you can only connect two devices to it at a time without adding multiport adapters or docks - and to see anything like that theoretical bandwidth those will have to be expensive TB3 adapters/docks - not glorified USB hubs.

...and with the growing popularity of 4k/5k displays, USB-C (as opposed to TB3) falls flat as a single-cable docking solution as long as it is hobbled by the controller only supporting DisplayPort 1.2, making it incapable of supporting 4k@60Hz and USB 3.1 at the same time.

TB3/USB-C is a reasonable replacement for the old TB2/miniDP connector (minus: needs new DisplayPort cables, plus: TB3, and if you don't use it for TB3 or DP its an extra USB port) - and its nice to have the option of charging from a standard USB-C charger or dock (but not having it forced on you by removing the alternative) but that's about it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@theluggage

Superb post.
One of the best I've seen around here in a long time.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

@theluggage

Superb post.
One of the best I've seen around here in a long time.

+1.
Very informative. I enjoyed every word.

 

[ZapNZs]

The problem is, that's simply not true, at best there are a lot of swings and roundabouts - especially when you start fitting it to full-featured laptops and desktops, and when you remember that, on Apple laptops, it is not just replacing USB-A but a whole host of other connectors.

Yes, physically, reversible USB-C connectors are nicer to use than either USB-A, and are certainly a vast improvement c.f. MicroUSB.

In terms of driving USB peripherals, though, its important to realise that a USB-C connector simply carries the same old, 1 x USB 3.1 + 1 x USB 2 signal as the USB-A (and, yes, you can run USB 10Gbps 3.1gen2 over USB-A - several PC motherboards have USB 3.1g2 ports). The vast majority of single disc drives, flash sticks, mice, printers, MIDI devices etc. gain no advantage from USB-C apart from the reversible connector.

Now, USB 3.2 is coming, and that will allow USB-C cables to carry 2 sets of USB 3.1, but not with existing computers or peripherals - and, of course, not in combination with DisplayPort or HDMI.

So, how about combining all of those functions - USB3.1, DisplayPort, charging, Thunderbolt, Audio... - onto one port? Well, that's great on a phone or tablet, where there may only be space for a single connector - but that's the one place Apple aren't using USB-C, and mobiles/tablets will probably be the first devices to go fully wireless and hermetically sealed. On full-featured computers, which have space for a few ports, it's mainly a needless complication - The old 13" rMBP could simultaneously connect to two USB devices (each with 5Gbps bandwidth), a mini DisplayPort display, a Thunderbolt device (or a HDMI display and two Thunderbolt devices), a charger and have a SD card plugged in. The new non-touch rMBP may have, on paper, more bandwidth thanks to TB3, but in practice you can only connect two devices to it at a time without adding multiport adapters or docks - and to see anything like that theoretical bandwidth those will have to be expensive TB3 adapters/docks - not glorified USB hubs.

...and with the growing popularity of 4k/5k displays, USB-C (as opposed to TB3) falls flat as a single-cable docking solution as long as it is hobbled by the controller only supporting DisplayPort 1.2, making it incapable of supporting 4k@60Hz and USB 3.1 at the same time.

TB3/USB-C is a reasonable replacement for the old TB2/miniDP connector (minus: needs new DisplayPort cables, plus: TB3, and if you don't use it for TB3 or DP its an extra USB port) - and its nice to have the option of charging from a standard USB-C charger or dock (but not having it forced on you by removing the alternative) but that's about it.

I clearly did not consider all the factors when I made that statement - thank you for correcting me.

Do you consider the higher plug-unplug cycle rating, the more durable connectors, or the higher power it can carry, benefits compared to USB-A and its derivatives? (independent of Apple's choice to eliminate other non-USB ports in favor of all-C)

 

[theluggage]

Do you consider the higher plug-unplug cycle rating, the more durable connectors, or the higher power it can carry, benefits compared to USB-A and its derivatives?

Sure - All other things being equal. Especially the durability compared to microUSB (which Apple never used).

...but although the power delivery may be an advantage, you've got to ask whether that justifies the abandoning of MagSafe, and the shortage of third-party USB-C docks/chargers that supply enough power for the more powerful MBP models (plus the need for special USB-C/Thunderbolt cables for higher power modes).

(independent of Apple's choice to eliminate other non-USB ports in favor of all-C)

...but that's the whole problem. I'd still want TB3/USB-C ports on any new computer (just not the hobbled 5Gbps max port on the 12" rMB) - just not to the exclusion of everything else.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I just wish they had done this in some steps.

Add a couple USB-C ports to the existing mix of other very useful ports and get the best of both worlds.

All USB-C was too much too soon.