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Time to kill the Air and drop the 12" Macbook to $999.
- Thread starter deepen03
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Exactly. I didn't pay anywhere near RRP (MSRP) on my 2015 Air or my wife's 11 version.
I could make the same (straw man) argument for the rMacBook. Hardware wise it's got the same guts as any one of a dozen core-M based PC ultrabooks on the market and you can have them for half the price.
All the fancy, expensive-to-manufacture design features it has, have just made a rod for Apple's back.
Drop the Air? But that's the only laptop with a decent keyboardI'm tired of stuck keys.
Amen, brother. A laptop is its keyboard to me. I write for a living.
Yeah, I'm done too.
My 12" 2016 rMB is dead everyday by lunch time.
That's exactly half the battery life of my 2013 13" Air.
I'd say I could use my 13" Air with 1643 battery cycles and 66% battery capacity, and it would still last more than my brand new rMB.
I'm not selling it only because I have to get graduated and don't have time to move my data and shop around for a new notebook.
I'm so bittered by this experience, I might even turn to the dark side of PCs.
By the way, I've been using the rMB since February, and yes, the keyboard still feels like crap.
There's no need to kill the Air, they've already killed the whole Macbook lineup.
That's exactly half the battery life of my 2013 13" Air.
I'd say I could use my 13" Air with 1643 battery cycles and 66% battery capacity, and it would still last more than my brand new rMB.
I'm not selling it only because I have to get graduated and don't have time to move my data and shop around for a new notebook.
I'm so bittered by this experience, I might even turn to the dark side of PCs.
By the way, I've been using the rMB since February, and yes, the keyboard still feels like crap.
There's no need to kill the Air, they've already killed the whole Macbook lineup.
I read through this long thread with great interest. We're in the market for a new Mac to replace an ancient, decrepit MBA and were looking for information to help us decide which notebook to get.
Setting aside all the technical debate over external monitors, driving dual 4K displays, Thunderbolt USB-C meaning as to hosting, etc., I found myself agreeing -- and disagreeing -- with both "sides". Maybe our thoughts on this will help others in the same boat!
OLD TECH
The MacBook Air is old tech, dated, and aesthetically unappealing, especially with its large bezels and non-Retina screen. After getting used to retina displays on our iPads and iPhones, it is HARD reading on the MBA's screen. Well, let me be more precise, it is hard scrolling through text -- the screen shimmers, flickers, and does not remain smooth. That's true on brand new MBA display models, too. It's visually distracting and tiring. The retina Macs are qualitatively so much better and so much better to view and work with text on.
LEGACY PORTS AND BATTER LIFE ARE USEFUL
OTOH, the MBA's suite of built-in ports, familiar keyboard (which still isn't that good compared to older ones with greater travel), and long battery life are valuable, incredible advantages over the new Macs. (Yet, 8-10 hours of the new Macs is more than enough for our needs.)
KEYBOARD AND PALM REST
We never really liked the MBA's keyboard -- the keycaps wore off, it had too little travel (like typing on a brick), etc. The 2nd gen butterfly keyboard on the 2017 MBP seems pretty decent, although we are worried about reliability -- far too many reports of malfunctioning or misfiring keys with the butterfly keyboards. Their travel is even less than that on the MBA. So, that's a huge minus as to the new Macs.
But an even bigger issue is the palm rest. It is far too small on the MacBook, passably OK on the new MBP, and just right on the MacBook Airs.
DONGLEGATE
True enough, we have a couples of dongles for our old MBA -- ethernet and display port -- so, at one level, needing dongles for the new Macs is an overblown concern. OTOH, popping out a camera card and putting it into the MBA or attaching an external USB hard drive to it is simplicity itself. No hunting around for a dongle, adapter, or cable. Just plug in the card or the device. A big plus for the MacBook Air.
COST
We know we need 512gb in our new Mac. So, we're looking at $1,250 for an MBA; $1,550 for the MB; and $1,650 for the MBP. (Education pricing.). However, we have to add in up to $100 for adapters and hub (let's say, $70 total); and, because it's a worthwhile option, $180 for 16gb of RAM for the MB and MBPs.
So, then, we're comparing $1,250 for a new MacBook Air with its less than stellar screen but other advantages vs. $1,800 for the MB, which is too small vs. $1,900 for a new MacBook Pro. With tax and the differences in Apple Care price, we'd have to spend $700 extra to buy the MacBoo Pro!
Yet, there's the screen issue...
IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE SCREEN, WE'D BUY A NEW MACBOOK AIR IN AN INSTANT!
YES, KILL THE AIR AND LOWER THE MACBOOK'S PRICE
So, after all that, we'd agree with the original post. If Apple dropped the MBA and the MB's price -- and, smartly, bundled the MacBook with a recommended hub -- it would replace the Air. We'd be willing to accept a somewhat smaller screen and palm rest -- and even a dongle or hub.
We'll predict that next year will be the MBA's last, with both it and the MacBooks getting major price drops. We'll also predict that our prediction will be wrong!
Setting aside all the technical debate over external monitors, driving dual 4K displays, Thunderbolt USB-C meaning as to hosting, etc., I found myself agreeing -- and disagreeing -- with both "sides". Maybe our thoughts on this will help others in the same boat!
OLD TECH
The MacBook Air is old tech, dated, and aesthetically unappealing, especially with its large bezels and non-Retina screen. After getting used to retina displays on our iPads and iPhones, it is HARD reading on the MBA's screen. Well, let me be more precise, it is hard scrolling through text -- the screen shimmers, flickers, and does not remain smooth. That's true on brand new MBA display models, too. It's visually distracting and tiring. The retina Macs are qualitatively so much better and so much better to view and work with text on.
LEGACY PORTS AND BATTER LIFE ARE USEFUL
OTOH, the MBA's suite of built-in ports, familiar keyboard (which still isn't that good compared to older ones with greater travel), and long battery life are valuable, incredible advantages over the new Macs. (Yet, 8-10 hours of the new Macs is more than enough for our needs.)
KEYBOARD AND PALM REST
We never really liked the MBA's keyboard -- the keycaps wore off, it had too little travel (like typing on a brick), etc. The 2nd gen butterfly keyboard on the 2017 MBP seems pretty decent, although we are worried about reliability -- far too many reports of malfunctioning or misfiring keys with the butterfly keyboards. Their travel is even less than that on the MBA. So, that's a huge minus as to the new Macs.
But an even bigger issue is the palm rest. It is far too small on the MacBook, passably OK on the new MBP, and just right on the MacBook Airs.
DONGLEGATE
True enough, we have a couples of dongles for our old MBA -- ethernet and display port -- so, at one level, needing dongles for the new Macs is an overblown concern. OTOH, popping out a camera card and putting it into the MBA or attaching an external USB hard drive to it is simplicity itself. No hunting around for a dongle, adapter, or cable. Just plug in the card or the device. A big plus for the MacBook Air.
COST
We know we need 512gb in our new Mac. So, we're looking at $1,250 for an MBA; $1,550 for the MB; and $1,650 for the MBP. (Education pricing.). However, we have to add in up to $100 for adapters and hub (let's say, $70 total); and, because it's a worthwhile option, $180 for 16gb of RAM for the MB and MBPs.
So, then, we're comparing $1,250 for a new MacBook Air with its less than stellar screen but other advantages vs. $1,800 for the MB, which is too small vs. $1,900 for a new MacBook Pro. With tax and the differences in Apple Care price, we'd have to spend $700 extra to buy the MacBoo Pro!
Yet, there's the screen issue...
IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE SCREEN, WE'D BUY A NEW MACBOOK AIR IN AN INSTANT!
YES, KILL THE AIR AND LOWER THE MACBOOK'S PRICE
So, after all that, we'd agree with the original post. If Apple dropped the MBA and the MB's price -- and, smartly, bundled the MacBook with a recommended hub -- it would replace the Air. We'd be willing to accept a somewhat smaller screen and palm rest -- and even a dongle or hub.
We'll predict that next year will be the MBA's last, with both it and the MacBooks getting major price drops. We'll also predict that our prediction will be wrong!
Nice, thoughtful post @Saturn007 . But I'm curious just how old your "ancient" MacBook Air is, because a few of your comments don't match my experience with a 2013 model (screen flickering and worn keycaps for example).
If you want 16gb of RAM then all the rest is irrelevant, since it's not available on the MBA. But I do take issue with the statement "KILL THE AIR" which you SHOUTED to us in bright blue boldfaced capital letters. Seriously, why do you care if they keep selling it?
I completely agree with the idea of lowering the price of the MacBook but that is a separate issue. What rubs a number of people in this thread the wrong way is (what I perceive to be) the arrogant attitude that nobody should be able to buy a MacBook Air, just because you don't like it.
As I said before, even though I'm completely happy with my 2013 MBA and plan to continue using it, I wouldn't buy another one today. And I also agree its days are numbered, that writing has been on the wall for quite some time. But geez, just "live and let live". If people want to buy a new MBA, why do you want to prevent them?
If you want 16gb of RAM then all the rest is irrelevant, since it's not available on the MBA. But I do take issue with the statement "KILL THE AIR" which you SHOUTED to us in bright blue boldfaced capital letters. Seriously, why do you care if they keep selling it?
I completely agree with the idea of lowering the price of the MacBook but that is a separate issue. What rubs a number of people in this thread the wrong way is (what I perceive to be) the arrogant attitude that nobody should be able to buy a MacBook Air, just because you don't like it.
As I said before, even though I'm completely happy with my 2013 MBA and plan to continue using it, I wouldn't buy another one today. And I also agree its days are numbered, that writing has been on the wall for quite some time. But geez, just "live and let live". If people want to buy a new MBA, why do you want to prevent them?
"We????" Well, we (me and my bunny) will respond.
My MBA is a 2011, and not even a "powerful" one, and my screen never flickers, shimmers, fires lasers, or anything it shouldn't do. As to having trouble reading the screen, my over-60 diabetic eyes have no trouble reading it. Actually, I have no complaints about the screen. While your mileage may indeed vary, I also have no issues with the appearance of the machine.
I'll believe the MB will get a price drop when it happens. After the obscene MBP price hikes this year, I don't expect anything positive to happen with pricing.
The MB keyboard is the pits 2.0 (1.0 was the original and REALLY sucked.) That alone makes the Air the better device.
My MBA is a 2011, and not even a "powerful" one, and my screen never flickers, shimmers, fires lasers, or anything it shouldn't do. As to having trouble reading the screen, my over-60 diabetic eyes have no trouble reading it. Actually, I have no complaints about the screen. While your mileage may indeed vary, I also have no issues with the appearance of the machine.
I'll believe the MB will get a price drop when it happens. After the obscene MBP price hikes this year, I don't expect anything positive to happen with pricing.
The MB keyboard is the pits 2.0 (1.0 was the original and REALLY sucked.) That alone makes the Air the better device.
I own both the Air and the new 2017 rMB. I'm very happy with both - I enjoy their strengths and I understand (and accept) their limitations. To me, they are such radically different computers (that prioritize different characteristics that owners may desire) that I think it would make sense for Apple to continue to sell both concurrently. To me, it's kind of like if you have steak and chicken on your menu, then this should not preclude you from offering fish.
It would not be hard for Apple to modernize the Air with a IPS display and perhaps an updated CPU/iGPU. And I do not believe this would hurt MacBook sales.
It would not be hard for Apple to modernize the Air with a IPS display and perhaps an updated CPU/iGPU. And I do not believe this would hurt MacBook sales.
ALL of my new MacBook Pro (15 and 13") are being returned. Keyboard failures are not only common, they are just about a guarantee. I know this from Board of Ed in NY buying 100's of these machines and having a 3rd with repeating and stuck keys.
The issues are now well known in the Hollywood film and commercial community that I work in.
Until Apple sorts out the butterfly keyboard, the MBA remains their best laptop. I have the i7 and will pick up another one. For heavy lifting, it's the new 5K i7 27" iMac. Sadly the new Touchbar machines were ruined by keyboard failures.
I use these machines for work. I don't worry about specs and value nonsense. They can either do the work and hold up or out they go. At the moment the MBA is the only workhorse laptop sold by Apple.
R.
Working in the east coast commercial film community, I agree 100% that the MBA is the go to work horse for on location shoots, as failures of any laptops on the set would be catastrophic to the business. I also am opting for a second MBA i7.
Appreciate the compliment!
My "shouting" "Yes, Kill the Air" was an answer to the OP's original statement/question! (Perhaps, partly, it was tongue-in-cheek or a bit glib given all the reasons I gave for how good the Air is!)
However, if it's a question of Apple continuing to sell the MacBook Air AND leaving the MacBook entry price at $1,250, then, yes, I'd advocate they kill the Air and reduce the MB price! Elsewhere, I predicted another year of MBA at a lower price and a price reduction for the MB! And, bundling with a transition hub!
So, I have no issue with their selling it... as my post explains ,there are decidedly good things about the Air. OTOH, the screen is now second-rate when compared to the Retina Display.
If people aren't seeing shimmering and flickering on their Air's screens, it's either because they are insensitive to such issues (which may well be the case), haven't looked for it by scrolling through, say, a New York Times article in Safari especially at lower brightness levels, or haven't had much experience with -- or made side-by-side comparison with -- a Retina Display.
I quickly get eye strain with the the Air's screen when reading websites, news sites, comments on MacRumors, etc. Does not happen with any Apple device with a retina screen. The shimmering is OBVIOUS, even on brand new 2017 MacBook Airs at high brightness! (Several family members and customers confirmed it, too!) There is virtually none with a MacBook or MacBook Pro.
Of course, given the emerging stories of screen issues with the MBPs and the debacles with the butterfly keyboards, the MBA still has a place -- if one can put up with its screen and its keyboard!
My "shouting" "Yes, Kill the Air" was an answer to the OP's original statement/question! (Perhaps, partly, it was tongue-in-cheek or a bit glib given all the reasons I gave for how good the Air is!)
However, if it's a question of Apple continuing to sell the MacBook Air AND leaving the MacBook entry price at $1,250, then, yes, I'd advocate they kill the Air and reduce the MB price! Elsewhere, I predicted another year of MBA at a lower price and a price reduction for the MB! And, bundling with a transition hub!
So, I have no issue with their selling it... as my post explains ,there are decidedly good things about the Air. OTOH, the screen is now second-rate when compared to the Retina Display.
If people aren't seeing shimmering and flickering on their Air's screens, it's either because they are insensitive to such issues (which may well be the case), haven't looked for it by scrolling through, say, a New York Times article in Safari especially at lower brightness levels, or haven't had much experience with -- or made side-by-side comparison with -- a Retina Display.
I quickly get eye strain with the the Air's screen when reading websites, news sites, comments on MacRumors, etc. Does not happen with any Apple device with a retina screen. The shimmering is OBVIOUS, even on brand new 2017 MacBook Airs at high brightness! (Several family members and customers confirmed it, too!) There is virtually none with a MacBook or MacBook Pro.
Of course, given the emerging stories of screen issues with the MBPs and the debacles with the butterfly keyboards, the MBA still has a place -- if one can put up with its screen and its keyboard!
Why does this need to be a binary choice? Also, many (maybe "most") people don't pay Apple's list price, especially for the entry level MBA. These can be found on sale for $800, maybe less at major retailers. That makes the gap with the rMB even greater and is probably very important for some people on limited budgets.
*looks at my 2011 MBA*
Putting up with the screen I can see your point.
Putting up with the keyboard? You mean putting up with a better keyboard would be difficult?
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So from a CEOs perspective, if they're still selling a ton of MBs at its current price there's no incentive for them to reduce it's price point to move down to a broader market - if that is the case then all they need to do is update the air to keep it competitive as the 'cheaper' model. A 1080p IPS screen, chip bump to Kaby Lake, and replace the TB2 with a TB3/ USB C and they've got something that's more than competitive with a dell XPS, HP envy etc. The fact they haven't done this and haven't yet budged on the MBs price point suggests to me that the MBA is going to be phased out but the MB will likely not be taking its place. They will just start the MacBooks at $1,299 and whatever that translates to around the world. If you don't want to pay it then the iPad Pro with keyboard is what they probably want you to buy. They're realistically probably not going to shave $300 off the asking price of the MB in one go, and the air is fast approaching the point where it's continuing sale isn't going to be feasible (intel probably want to stop producing the chips soon, etc) anyone else feel like the days of the sub-$1,000 MacBook are over?
That could very well happen, but they will take some heat for not having a $1000 notebook. When they killed the 11" MBA there was criticism that Apple was pulling away from the entry level market at places like the Wall St. Journal. Maybe they don't care, but Tim Cook seems pretty sensitive about the company's image and probably wouldn't like digs about Macs only being for rich people.
What Apple is doing is basically this...
Want a 13" Mac notebook? We've got MBA...oh, that is outdated? Well, we have 13" MBP at $1,300. Pick your poison.
The fact that they haven't come out with a 13" MacBook is a disgrace. They don't have to offer what consumers want unless they have to.
Want a 13" Mac notebook? We've got MBA...oh, that is outdated? Well, we have 13" MBP at $1,300. Pick your poison.
The fact that they haven't come out with a 13" MacBook is a disgrace. They don't have to offer what consumers want unless they have to.
My mba experience is a complete 180 from what you described. My screen did not flicker. My eyes are fine adjusting to the mba screen after looking at iphone/ipad screens. The keyboard is definitely one of a kind. I guess others just have different experiences.
I'm writing this on the best computer I have ever had, my 2014 11" MBA (512 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, Core i7); even now, I will easily get the best part of eight hours a day from the battery - for power, portability, reliability, ease of use - I have never had a better computer.
Add the excellent battery life, and the solid keyboard, and I have an amazing computer. This computer has - quite literally - travelled the world with me, without complaint.
Sure, the screen could be better, but, if I could snap up another 11" MBA with those specs (brand new, or, rather refurb) I'd do so in a heartbeat.
Add the excellent battery life, and the solid keyboard, and I have an amazing computer. This computer has - quite literally - travelled the world with me, without complaint.
Sure, the screen could be better, but, if I could snap up another 11" MBA with those specs (brand new, or, rather refurb) I'd do so in a heartbeat.
This is how I feel about my 2015 13” MBP .. after a long road of issues with the 2016/2017 models. I do love the screen.
A 12” MB to replace the 11” air and a 14” MB to replace the 13” air would be ideal - the ntb pro seems to me more like they were afraid of jumping straight from 1299 to 1799 on the 13” pro pricing than a genuine effort to make something that would replace the air. It would also go some way towards plugging the gap of no larger-screened MacBook that isn’t a pro starting at two grand!
The MBA is the best Laptop Apple currently makes. The keyboard is reliable and the form factor is superb. I have two of them and they can handle pretty much everything.
Never ever have I seen or heard of a MBA screen flickering. If that happens, you have a damaged machine.
I just bought the MBA i7 512SSD to replace a failing 2016 MBP. The new keyboards are a disaster and can't handle any kind of dust or debris. This applies to the new MacBooks as well.
My primary machine is the new 5K 27" iMac i7 with SSD and 580 graphics, twin displays. The MBA is the go-to portable, rugged and proven. I'm hoping Apple refines the new keyboards so they can be trusted.
Here's a bonus item: Side-by-side with the i5 MacBook running photoshop, the i7 Air was the faster machine. Both output beautifully to a Dell 4K monitor.
R.
Never ever have I seen or heard of a MBA screen flickering. If that happens, you have a damaged machine.
I just bought the MBA i7 512SSD to replace a failing 2016 MBP. The new keyboards are a disaster and can't handle any kind of dust or debris. This applies to the new MacBooks as well.
My primary machine is the new 5K 27" iMac i7 with SSD and 580 graphics, twin displays. The MBA is the go-to portable, rugged and proven. I'm hoping Apple refines the new keyboards so they can be trusted.
Here's a bonus item: Side-by-side with the i5 MacBook running photoshop, the i7 Air was the faster machine. Both output beautifully to a Dell 4K monitor.
R.
I'm sure someone already said this, but I would rather they do a "Macbook Air SE" - new Macbook Air with new processor, retina screen, and a few USB C ports.
- The Air has a good keyboard while the MacBook has a stage prop.
- The Air has a replaceable (upgradeable) SSD while the MacBook's is soldered to the mobo so if it fails, you buy a new mobo.
- The Air has ports (plural) and an SD card slot and uses a standard MagSafe2 adapter while the MacBook is hobbled with one USB-C port (that can't be relied upon to work in a standard manner simply because it's from Apple) and, therefore, requires the use of a hub and/or port converter if you want to use anything USB or otherwise if the MacBook needs power.
- The Air has a nice screen that efficiently uses power while the MacBook uses a Retina screen that sucks power like a Hoover.
Shall I go on?
Apple should put a newer CPU in the Air, provide an option for more RAM, and continue to eschew the Retina display for it. Frankly, it continues to be a much better machine than the MacBook even equipped the way it is.
- The Air has a replaceable (upgradeable) SSD while the MacBook's is soldered to the mobo so if it fails, you buy a new mobo.
- The Air has ports (plural) and an SD card slot and uses a standard MagSafe2 adapter while the MacBook is hobbled with one USB-C port (that can't be relied upon to work in a standard manner simply because it's from Apple) and, therefore, requires the use of a hub and/or port converter if you want to use anything USB or otherwise if the MacBook needs power.
- The Air has a nice screen that efficiently uses power while the MacBook uses a Retina screen that sucks power like a Hoover.
Shall I go on?
Apple should put a newer CPU in the Air, provide an option for more RAM, and continue to eschew the Retina display for it. Frankly, it continues to be a much better machine than the MacBook even equipped the way it is.
That's where you lost me.
If they do anything to the Air in the future, they need to give it a Retina screen.
It's just time for that. That's the one feature that has made a few of my Air friends leave it.
It becomes difficult if they have a 4k external, retina iPads, retina iPhones, 4k HDR TV's... The Air screen just starts to become hard not to notice (in a bad way).
2-3 years ago I would agree with you - But in 2018+, all their laptops need to be Retina (IMO)