Well I only know what he actually wrote, which seems to group all MacRumors forum members together.
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Time to kill the Air and drop the 12" Macbook to $999.
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Well I only know what he actually wrote, which seems to group all MacRumors forum members together.
Well, I am not him, so I cannot claim to speak for him, but while I accept that many on this thread (not least myself) have defended the MBA very strongly, the abiding memory I have of it, is the nasty and unyielding, contemptuous and intolerant stubbornness of the tone taken by those who do not merely dislike the MBA, but who choose to see its continued existence, and its enduing popularity, as a personal insult.
That is what I think he may have meant, because that is what I, too, have taken from the thread.
I have also defended it here. And yes, a few people have sounded a bit intolerant and stubborn. But geez... it's a forum, a place where people post their opinions. If we disagree, we can say so and make a case for what we believe (as you have done).
IMO, you're taking this too seriously and personally. I don't see any harm in having a discussion as to whether the MacBook Air deserves a place in Apple's current lineup. And I disagree with the notion "if I was a new member looking for advice or information, I wouldn't want to be here". Let people come here, read what is written and make their own decision.
IMO, you're taking this too seriously and personally. I don't see any harm in having a discussion as to whether the MacBook Air deserves a place in Apple's current lineup. And I disagree with the notion "if I was a new member looking for advice or information, I wouldn't want to be here". Let people come here, read what is written and make their own decision.
I don't think anybody would complain if Apple replaced the MBA with a worthy successor that was actually a clear improvement over the current model. That would mean a retina display, a more powerful processor, 256GB SSD as standard, the same or better connectivity (e.g. replace the MiniDP/TB2 with a USB-C/TB3 but keep the other connectors) and about the same price.
The rMB isn't a bad computer if it meets your needs. If you need something a better than an iPad, but with iPad-level portability so you can carry it around all day then go for it. It is just not a viable replacement for the full range of uses of the Air.
I'm not sure that it is even meant to be the new Air: The natural successor to the MBA is the non-Touchbar MacBook Pro (a system that sounds far, far more credible if you cross off the "Pro" and consider it as the new "Air"). Of course, it is considerably more expensive (but you get a retina display), only two ports is a bit limiting (but head and shoulders above what the rMB offers) and the keyboard... well, IMHO the Mk2 butterfly keyboard is more credible than the Mk1 in the rMB.
I think "Time to drop the Air and cut the MBP "Escape" to $999 (and stop pretending its a "Pro")" would be a better topic for debate - although I somehow doubt that they could get it to $999.
However, look at the current "premium" ranges from Dell etc. - the top, 4k models are creeping up to distinctly Apple-like pricetags, but they're filling the sub-$1000 slot with lower-res displays. So, howasabout a $999 version of the "Escape" with a 1680x1050 display, Apple?
Your analogy is wrong. The MacBook Air is the exact same computer as it was when released, it can still do everything today that it did back then. The "22 year old dog" is near death and can't do any of the things he did when he was younger.
So you would put a 7 year old dog to sleep because you want a cute new puppy, even though the old dog is still healthy and could live many more years.
Yes it's the same, but technology has moved on.
My commodore amiga is still the same computer it was when it came out too - but what does that say about it?
Based on "whos' opinion? Outside this tread you'd be hard push to find anyone who would agree with that, esp the "best ever designed" part. I travel every week as part of my work and the MBA is certainly as far from perfect as you can get for me.
But yours and other tones is even more denigrating when presented with reasons as to why the MBA should be killed as well as intemperate to any counter around how the rMB performs better, has a better screen, is more portable and is future focused.
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That's what I think too. And it's telling that Apple released a 128GB model at rMB prices. There was a lot of overlap in ability between the 13" Air and Pro, neither was the clearly better machine. Now we have two "pro" systems that reflect that similarity, and with the same price gradient.
I'm considering buying a MacBook and have decided on the MBA (13", i7, 512GB). Future focused sounds like an apt description for the rMB and MBP. I need something that works for the present, though, and that present includes a bunch of legacy USB-A devices. I'm glad to still have the MBA available as an option.
Thank you for the kind words
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Our friend here's either flat-out trolling or he's bought the emperor's new clothes and won't feel happy about his purchase unless we all fall into line.
Reasonable adults buy the devices that suit their needs. I, and many others on this thread (and elsewhere), have justified why the MacBook Air is the right machine for us. Our choice, does not invalidate yours just as I respect your right to choose the device that you feel is right for you.
I hope at least we can agree on that and stop the silly sniping over whose slice of aluminium and silicone is the best.
Good sh** I hope they don't kill the Air. It's miles better than the dumb little piece of bling rMB that everyone calls a "work machine." The rMB is a fine machine, but it's overpriced and underpowered for what it is. If I needed a pretty little laptop to send email and create a few spreadsheets, and that's all I did, I'm sure it would be admirably up to the task. Open iTunes, CS6, Xcode, and power it to a 22" HD monitor without a stutter or hiccup? No can do.
- Air: An excellent machine or people who want mobility and power.
- rMB: A fine machine for people who want mobility...and don't need power.
Toggling from Preview to iTunes and then sending an email "OMG I totally just changed the white balance on this pic of my nephew lol!" doesn't qualify as work.
Sorry for the minor rant, but the Air gets a horrible bad rap from people who have never used it and largely have no clue what an actual workload is. They're both good computers; one is just overpriced is all.
- Air: An excellent machine or people who want mobility and power.
- rMB: A fine machine for people who want mobility...and don't need power.
Toggling from Preview to iTunes and then sending an email "OMG I totally just changed the white balance on this pic of my nephew lol!" doesn't qualify as work.
Sorry for the minor rant, but the Air gets a horrible bad rap from people who have never used it and largely have no clue what an actual workload is. They're both good computers; one is just overpriced is all.
Thank you for the kind words
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Our friend here's either flat-out trolling or he's bought the emperor's new clothes and won't feel happy about his purchase unless we all fall into line.
Reasonable adults buy the devices that suit their needs. I, and many others on this thread (and elsewhere), have justified why the MacBook Air is the right machine for us. Our choice, does not invalidate yours just as I respect your right to choose the device that you feel is right for you.
I hope at least we can agree on that and stop the silly sniping over whose slice of aluminium and silicone is the best.
Excellent post, and very well said.
If you have decided that a machine is right for you, then, it is right for you as it meets your perceived needs.
That does not invalidate anyone else's choice, but neither should yours be belittled by others.
Agreed.
I have written that the rMB reminds me of nothing as much as the original incarnation of the MBA, which was gorgeous (that form factor) but over-priced and under-powered for what it offered at the time.
The MBA didn't become the machine it had always held the promise of becoming until the vast improvement in the duration of the battery charge in 2013. That was when it becomes a stunning and reliable computer.
For me, the processor jump (Haswell, or the one before? I don't remember) was when it began to come into it's own. It took a while to get there, I agree, but it's a reliable little workhorse as it is now. I don't hate the rMB, it's just not what the price leads you to believe it is...and the users of the thing don't seem to comprehend that.
Personally, I think the rMB trades on trying to be something that it isn't. When the Air came out, you paid the premium for the size. The rMB, on the other hand, is in the same line as other microthin laptops, and priced as it is it's trying to shoot above it's station. I think Apple portrays it as more than it cracks up to be - which is not a statement in itself you could say for the original Air.
Thank you for the kind words
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Our friend here's either flat-out trolling or he's bought the emperor's new clothes and won't feel happy about his purchase unless we all fall into line.
Reasonable adults buy the devices that suit their needs. I, and many others on this thread (and elsewhere), have justified why the MacBook Air is the right machine for us. Our choice, does not invalidate yours just as I respect your right to choose the device that you feel is right for you.
I hope at least we can agree on that and stop the silly sniping over whose slice of aluminium and silicone is the best.
I'm trolling because i fundamentally don't agree with yours and a few others opinion around the MBA?
My only new apple purchases are both the G2 iPad pros but I'm not advocating those as laptop or MBA replacements so unfortunately it's not a case of new clothes - Sorry.
Clear you DON'T respect my or anyone else's choice/opinion as you mocked it and then you defaulted to sniping with a very snide "either flat-out trolling or he's bought the emperor's new clothes and won't feel happy about his purchase unless we all fall into line."
The silicon is measurable and beyond debate if performance or energy efficiency is the measure - that's the newer Ms.
Do people need that level of performance? That depends on individual workflows, just like having 4 or 5 things stuck out of the side of a device.
Apple called out the rMB during the results... "The updated 12-inch MacBook helped expand MacBook shipments by 17.1 percent from the first quarter to 3.98 million units." and "double-digit sequential growth for third-quarter MacBook shipments as Apple will focus on the MacBook Pro series during the year’s second half." No love for the MBA or comments on sales contribution.
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Sorry, no disrespect meant but you did let yourself into it with this unhelpful comment:
Also, you advocate killing off a product I own; a product that's the cornerstone of my professional and creative life for no other reason that you regard it as obsolete or undesirable. That's unreasonable, selfish and inflammatory. That's why I accused you of trolling.
I'm not for a minute saying your product choice should be killed off - at least afford me and others the same courtesy.
Apple will kill the MBA - you will get your wish - in time. However as someone who loves this class of device it will leave me evaluating my future as an Apple customer when I upgrade. My job requires that I connect to legacy equipment throughout Australia and New Zealand and that's not likely to change in the next 10 years thanks to inertia in enterprises.
My preference as a writer (professional and creative) is to use a keyboard that doesn't feel like I'm typing on wood or one that isn't prone to high failure rates. I cannot afford to go through the Marco Arment dance of buying multiple machines and multiple visits to the Genius bar. I use a keyboard like a long-distance truck driver uses wheels.
I need reliability, a quality which the MBA has in spades.
Apple's MacBook and MacBook Pro product line up has nothing for me. Apple is asking me to pay more for features I don't need (retina, touchbar, coloured aluminium chassis) while taking away those I do (SD cards, USB A ports, MagSafe, separate TB port). It has compromised the keyboard to a point where I loath the most basic and fundamental interaction with the device.
I don't care if on paper these janky 5-watt SOCs can win out over 15-watt Broadwell SOCs in certain benchmarks. I care about battery life, connectivity. My workflows demand a processor that doesn't throttle when under thermal load.
Apple can call out anything they like in the investor calls: they know the world is listening and they craft their message accordingly to fit their marketing vision. If they really wanted to be honest they'd give us a detailed breakdown and not just blow smoke.
Well said. Thank you for that!
And buying a laptop in 2017 which doesn't have USB-A ports is also silly. Once again Apple are pushing too fast but this time they're trying to ask people to either buy hubs and/or dongles to continue using devices made in the last two decades and they're also asking people to use dongles with a laptop that's sold as being thin and lightweight. Well, that argument goes down the drain when you need to carry multiple dongles and a hub in order to connect more than one device and charge your laptop at the same time.
What Apple should have done is add USB-C ports and keep at least two USB-A ports at the same time to let the industry and users adapt the new standard, replace their old USB-A devices with new USB-C devices. When Apple killed the floppy, it was different: USB was better because flash drives were faster and higher capacity than floppies. And a floppy drive required a lot of space and power, removing it made their laptops smaller, lighter and with better battery life. But there's no good reason to remove all USB-A ports in 2017.
I own a Mac mini with the wired Apple aluminium keyboard. I have to admit, I only tried both types of MacBook keyboards at Staples a few months ago. But after trying both for a few minutes at the store, I really couldn't stand the new keyboards and would buy an older MacBook Pro or a MacBook Air just to have a decent keyboard - along with USB-A ports.
And you do realize that the MacBook that the CPUs in the MacBook are limited by heat because there's no fan to cool them down, right? On paper they look good but in real life they cannot sustain their "boost speed" for very long. We don't all work in air conditioned environments. And there's plenty of threads about people not liking the new butterfly keyboards (both v1 and v2) and it's a subjective topic - there's no right or wrong here, only Apple forcing things on us because they're still fixated on making ever-thinner laptops at the cost of usability and battery life.
Enjoy your MacBook and stop telling people that their preferred Mac is no good and Apple should stop making it. We're all aware that both the Mac mini and MacBook Air are in upgrade limbo so I'm guessing you'll get your wish sooner or later. However, some of us are ready to either buy older hardware or jump ship if/when that happens.
And why should it? Apple belongs to the stockholders who want dvidends. That said, if the business model warrrents this to happen, it will happen. However, the MBA is more useful IMO due to the extra ports (2 USB) and the video output port.
I have the 2014 MBA, and it is a terrific machine. I hope Apple keeps selling an entry level workhouse MacBook for under $1,000. I am not sure the rMB is that device.
When I think of the prototypical customer, I think of a college student that wants a reliable sturdy laptop with some ports and long battery life at a great price. It needs to be portable but not necessarily ultra light, since it should have sufficient screen real estate to easily manipulate multiple files.
Anyway, I would like to see Apple update the MBA with a nice consumer/educational laptop for under $1,000. Of course, if they dropped the price of the none touch bar MBP to $1,000, that would work too. But, I think that's a few years away.....if ever.
When I think of the prototypical customer, I think of a college student that wants a reliable sturdy laptop with some ports and long battery life at a great price. It needs to be portable but not necessarily ultra light, since it should have sufficient screen real estate to easily manipulate multiple files.
Anyway, I would like to see Apple update the MBA with a nice consumer/educational laptop for under $1,000. Of course, if they dropped the price of the none touch bar MBP to $1,000, that would work too. But, I think that's a few years away.....if ever.
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Are you just trolling?
You say you don't care about performance? it's not on paper it's a benchmark, real world and the numbers are better - that's a given. Maybe those that want the Air killed care about USB-C or a much better screens in addition to a smaller lighter form factor or perhaps they don't care about SDcards, legacy USB-A - are they wrong? Can you charge your MBA from a power bank? can you run TB3? can you... the list goes on.
Any of the new apple devices would work as a corner stone for pretty much most task users do even on the "pro" devices (i use that term as a marketing name only). You talk about a compromised keyboard, but according to the owners (of which I'm not one) most think it's great after a period of adjustment. So you are doing those things you keep calling out, calling them undesirable or compromised. I believe as do many other the MBA screen is undesirable, the performance is compromised and it's just had it's day now.
As for the message, marketing is part of it, but it's a public statement about the companies financials. The content has to be truthful and representative in order to give investors a true reflection as to the state of the business.
So two side to a coin?
The MBA already has an unacceptable display, so that parts complete.
Are you just trolling?
Not intentionally no, just presenting my case.
Benchmarks tell me more about benchmarking software than they do about real-world usage, but I am prepared to be swayed if I read a compelling review and analysis. Having just heard Myke Hurley say the Retina Macbook can't even edit audio adequately in Logic, I'd say that those thermal limits present real-world problems for sustained loads. I'm not denying Intel's done a good job (not as good as ARM it turns out), but I wouldn't rely on them to do much more than basic productivity and media consumption
I accept the reasons that some users want the MacBook for the reasons you cite and they are not wrong to prefer what they prefer. I just don't think they're a valid reason to kill it off for everyone else -- that's wrong. That's like saying because I don't like Brussel Sprouts they should not be grown or sold to anyone else.
No, I can't do those things with my MacBook Air - I accept that and am happy with Magsafe
The realities of my life make the legacy features of the MacBook Air much more useful to me in a world where USB-C and TB3 has not yet gained traction. Incidentally the retina MacBook can't run TB3 either or even TB2 for that matter so that's a moot argument.The MacBook Pro Escape would be suitable but I'm yet to be convinced about the MacBook for reasons I noted above. As for the keyboard I tried, honestly I did. Hated it, returned it and got a refund and told the smug Apple store employee that I should not have to 'get used' (his words) to something that cost me nearly $2500 Australian dollars.
The lack of connectivity on the rMB is sort of like the mortar that holds all it's other absurd little bricks of mediocrity together. ONE FLIPPING USB PORT? Let's forget the utter lack of ubiquity of it's generation; Not one single person I know - tech savvy or not - has ever seen (let alone personally used) a USB-C item (myself included)... let's just revel in the fact that you pay a premium for what internet trolls tout as a capable premium product ends up being nothing more than an overpriced Facebook device. Real people who get suckered into buying the rMB will have to double down and get a laptop dock of sorts just to have any resemblance of useful, practical connectivity.
Laptop dock? Hey, retro internet dudes, I can dig out my flip phone again! I knew I hung onto my MotoRAZR for a reason!
okay now I'm really done...
Laptop dock? Hey, retro internet dudes, I can dig out my flip phone again! I knew I hung onto my MotoRAZR for a reason!
okay now I'm really done...
The lack of connectivity on the rMB is sort of like the mortar that holds all it's other absurd little bricks of mediocrity together. ONE FLIPPING USB PORT? Let's forget the utter lack of ubiquity of it's generation; Not one single person I know - tech savvy or not - has ever seen (let alone personally used) a USB-C item (myself included)... let's just revel in the fact that you pay a premium for what internet trolls tout as a capable premium product ends up being nothing more than an overpriced Facebook device. Real people who get suckered into buying the rMB will have to double down and get a laptop dock of sorts just to have any resemblance of useful, practical connectivity.
Laptop dock? Hey, retro internet dudes, I can dig out my flip phone again! I knew I hung onto my MotoRAZR for a reason!
okay now I'm really done...
So I'm fully willing to admit that my personal opinions on the Air don't jive with what EVERYONE thinks about the device....
But you're going fully the other direction with this tripe. My sister took a rMB to college with her - loves it. Has had no issues with it. For web, office, photos, media consumption - it all works for her. She has the multiport adapter but has told me she doesn't really ever use it. She also carries and iPhone and has an iPad so most transfers of things like photos and media happen wirelessly (which is most certainly the way the future will go).
My wife also has a 1st gen rMB that she uses for interior design side projects she works on in her spare time. She has the multiport adapter as well that stays on her desk with an external hard drive, a monitor and a charger plugged in. She can use the rMB in bed or take it wherever and it works just fine for everything she does on it (a lot of presentation based stuff). When she wants to sit down and work, she plugs one thing in and has charging, more storage and a 27" display ready to go.
I personally have a 15" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and I use a USB-C/A flash drive constantly (because some stuff is still stuck in the past). But in general, I also do things wirelessly (Handoff, Continuity, iCloud, AirDrop etc).
The idea that USB-C is some hardly used standard is ridiculous. There are a number of Windows machines that have switched over as well. There are a multitude of displays, hard drives, flash drives, power adapters, SD Card readers, and other accessories available that connect via USB-C AND offer the enhanced capability USB-C/TB3 offers.
99% of what I've read on this thread, I also heard ad naseum about the CD drive on the 2012 MacBook Pro. And one day it ceased to matter. That day is coming soon for USB-A.
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And then you have bigger, bulkier products simply because people can't get over their 7 year old external hard drive. I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for having to refresh various peripherals and external connections extra few decades in the name of technological advancement. Bite the bullet and buy a new TB3 (or just regular USB-C) hard drive and enjoy the increased performance in a much smaller package new Macs have to offer.
I get this is subjective, but too many people don't give the keyboard enough time. I saw someone further down be super proud of telling off a "smug Apple employee" about this, but there are objective reasons the butterfly keyboards are better. Main two being more durable mechanism and larger keys. They have a shallower keypress but the key doesn't wobble the same way older keyboard with he scissor mechanism did and that makes the keys feel some much more precise.
I'm not talking about boost speed - I'm talking about benchmarks. The MacBook has more performance than the aging MacBook Air. Plain and simple. Again, I understand the subjectivity but some of these are objective fact.
I have enjoyed my newer Macs immensely as have all the people in my sphere of influence whom I've convinced to give them a try. I'll let you in on where my vitriol for the MBA comes from - I'm in the business and deal with customers/clients looking at new machines on a daily basis. And in my experience - a VAST majority of the people who buy the MBA do so because its the cheapest model available (and they normally buy them when they're on sale). My job is to try and match the machine to the customer but folks rarely listen or will change their use case to fit their purchase of the Air. If that's where it ended, then fine - why should I care if they decide to pick a machine that they know won't work for their needs. But it doesn't - inevitably they come back complaining about performance or screen quality or some other thing I told them would be an issue before they made the purchase.
I experienced the same things when Apple kept the 2012 MacBook Pro around for far too long just to have a machine with a CD drive still in the lineup at a lower price point. I just hope it doesn't take as long to kill the MBA as it did the non retina MBP.
If Apple would simply put a Retina screen and a spec bump into the Air's existing offering, it would instantly become the #1 seller.
I know so so many people that even today are still using Air's (some have gone back to one from tb MBP's).
They are super mature, reliable, powerful, versatile and....did I mention reliable (especially the KB)?
One thing I did notice reading the chat here is most all arguing for the 12" rMB to be the new Air have skipped over the screen size difference. It's a huge difference in an area of the size range that matters a lot to people. 13"-ish is a really really popular size for a reason. Great sweet spot of screen size and portability. The rMB (which I've owned two of - both gone) is just a touch too small for many folks.
I know so so many people that even today are still using Air's (some have gone back to one from tb MBP's).
They are super mature, reliable, powerful, versatile and....did I mention reliable (especially the KB)?
One thing I did notice reading the chat here is most all arguing for the 12" rMB to be the new Air have skipped over the screen size difference. It's a huge difference in an area of the size range that matters a lot to people. 13"-ish is a really really popular size for a reason. Great sweet spot of screen size and portability. The rMB (which I've owned two of - both gone) is just a touch too small for many folks.
There's no reason to pour all those updates into a machine with I/O that's going away. I know its painful - but we need to move forward. Like I said before - its not going to be too long before USB-A goes the way of the CD drive.