Time to kill the Air and drop the 12" Macbook to $999.

[Falhófnir]

I just wish they had done this in some steps.

Add a couple USB-C ports to the existing mix of other very useful ports and get the best of both worlds.

All USB-C was too much too soon.

I mean, even if they’d gone 4 USB C, SD card and single USB A it would have been something. Made clear that the future is type C while offering an option for ‘legacy’ peripherals without a dongle via the type A port. The SD is different enough that imo it warrants continued inclusion anyway. Ultimately you’ll replace your cables and peripherals to ones using a type C connector, but cameras will likely continue to use SD and you’ll never be able to plug one of those into a type C port!

 

[Macintoshrumors]

Ive been looking at Airs on the local online classified site. Resale for 2016 model is around $650. I might just wait till best buy had a big sale on the Airs.

There is no way I'm spending $1000 on an air today. Nor will I slender $1450 on a 15w macbook pro with one extra port in the wrong standard. Want to update my iPad air 1 and refuse to pay over $1000 for 10.5 (conver, fast charging accessories including) and when I think about $430 on lesser iPad... I find myself willing to deal with my slow iPad one year longer.

Apples pricing used to be ridiculous. Now they have become insulting.

Give me a break. You can leave now. Sounds like you dont need to be on this forum or own any apple products. Bye Felicia.

 

[Osty]

I don't see why the Air "needs" retina. If a person needs a retina screen, Apple offers quite a few notebook options for them. If one needs a retina screen AND additional ports, there is the Macbook Pro. Why can't Apple offer a wider variety of options?

I agree. I write novels on my MacBook Air. I stare at that screen for hours a day, switching between Scrivener's project view and compose mode. As an aside, I wrote my first long-form stories and did my entire bachelor degree at 800x600. Resolution alone does not impede or improve my ability to write. I adapt.

What I love about the Air is its unmatched versatility, battery and portability at a cost that's not exorbitant. The keyboard is comfortable and durable. The IO is much more practical and will remain so for years while USB-C and TB3 languishes in their infancy.

 

[ZapNZs]

...but that's the whole problem. I'd still want TB3/USB-C ports on any new computer (just not the hobbled 5Gbps max port on the 12" rMB) - just not to the exclusion of everything else.

While we are at this, could you clarify some things regarding USB 3.2...

I've read from that it will increase the 5 Gbps standard to 10 Gbps, and 10 Gbps to 20 Gbps through changes to the signaling/lane usage WITHOUT the need for cable changes (provided they are presumably within IF compliance) but WITH new hardware (so my IF-Certified 3.1 gen 2 charge cable will support the 20 Gbps protocol, even though my MacBook is limited to the 5 Gbps standard and it will always be limited to 5 Gbps.)

Earlier, you noted that 3.2 improvements would NOT apply if carrying DisplayPort over USB-C.

To my understanding, the reason that DP over USB-C causes data transfer speeds to fall to the USB 2.0 standard is because at 4k 60 hz, the DP stream is occupying all of the SuperSpeed pairs, forcing data to run through the remaining HighSpeed pair - correct?

The DP Group notes the similarities in USB-C data to the DP stream.

If this is so, when 3.2 is released, will there be any changes to the signaling of the DP stream where it allows 4k60hz to NOT occupy all of the SuperSpeed lanes (and enabling more than 2.0 data speeds with 4k/60)?

Finally, DisplayPort advertises up to 8k @ 60hz over USB-C - this confuses me somewhat. With the Dell 8k monitor, this requires two DP 1.2 connections - is the DP group simply not mentioning that it would require two separate physical wires?

 

[theluggage]

Earlier, you noted that 3.2 improvements would NOT apply if carrying DisplayPort over USB-C.

Yes - USB 3.2 doesn't increase the speed per lane, its 10Gbps and 20Gbps modes work by using all 4 high-speed data pairs in a USB-C cable (giving 2 5Gbps g1 or 10Gbps g2 lanes), whereas USB3.1 only ever uses 2 pairs. All 4 pairs for USB = 0 pairs for DisplayPort. 3.2 will fall back to 3.1 speeds if only 2 pairs are available, or USB 2.0 speed if there are none (USB-C has separate wires for USB2.0 fallback) ...

If this is so, when 3.2 is released, will there be any changes to the signaling of the DP stream where it allows 4k60hz to NOT occupy all of the SuperSpeed lanes (and enabling more than 2.0 data speeds with 4k/60)?

No, the new 3.2 speeds will always need all 4 high-speed pairs (doubtless 3.2 will be followed by a shiny new version that gets more data per lane).

What will improve things is actual support for DisplayPort 1.3/1.4 which ups the DisplayPort data rate, so you could have a 4k60Hz display using just two pairs, allowing USB3.1 speeds, and 5k with all 4 pairs (rather than needing Thunderbolt). The USB-C/DisplayPort alt mode standard allows for DP 1.3/1.4 but as far as I know no current computer actually implements 1.4-over-USB-C (and Intel only support 1.2 in their CPUs and controllers), and DP1.4 monitors are fairly rare.

However, that's still going to take at least half of USB-Cs high-speed data pairs, so while it might make USB-C docks more useful, it won't help USB 3.2.

Thunderbolt is different because it bundles everything, including DisplayPort data into a single thunderbolt signal that then uses the maximum available bandwidth - much more efficient than physically allocating protocols to wires. Downside - each peripheral needs a full-blown Thunderbolt controller to unbundle the signals. However, it still only supports DP1.2 - those 5k Thunderbolt displays work by bundling two DP1.2 streams into the thunderbolt signal and splitting them again in the display.

Honestly, though, with 5k and 8k displays sucking up huge amounts of bandwidth, I wonder what the point is of combining display interfaces with other I/O - and PC workstations/gaming rigs (as used by many people who want high-end monitors) still use PCIe graphics cards with hard-wired DisplayPort or HDMI sockets.

 

[Darryl.Jenks]

Kill the last remaining keyboard in Apple's laptop lineup? No thanks.

 

[Osty]

Kill the last remaining keyboard in Apple's laptop lineup? No thanks.

I just listened to the latest ATP - I do love Marco's rants about the new keyboard. He's made an unsurprising switch back to the 2015 MBP

 

[KhunJay]

Kill their sexiest looking staple workhorse?

doesn't sound like the apple i know....given their money grubbing instincts Im rather looking forward to a "macbook air pro" that costs 50% more.

soon.

 

[617660]

Kill their sexiest looking staple workhorse?

doesn't sound like the apple i know....given their money grubbing instincts Im rather looking forward to a "macbook air pro" that costs 50% more.

soon.

Cost 50% more? Shuuush...don't give them any idea...

 

[Darryl.Jenks]

I just listened to the latest ATP - I do love Marco's rants about the new keyboard. He's made an unsurprising switch back to the 2015 MBP

I did the same. I waited for the MBP to be in my local store and visited so I could try it out - hoping it was better than the MB. Yes, it is better, but after 10 minutes of typing I hated it. Went back to my office and ordered a refurb 2015 that very day. I hope Apple will have a new CEO by the time my 2015 dies.

 

[Osty]

I did the same. I waited for the MBP to be in my local store and visited so I could try it out - hoping it was better than the MB. Yes, it is better, but after 10 minutes of typing I hated it. Went back to my office and ordered a refurb 2015 that very day. I hope Apple will have a new CEO by the time my 2015 dies.

I'd say that was a good choice, mate.

I had a visceral dislike to the MacBook keyboard when I tired it in my local Apple store. Believe me, as a writer on the go and a former MBA 11inch user, I really wanted to like it but I couldn't. Douchbag in the Apple store said I'd get used to it. I replied, for $2500AUD I shouldn't have to.

Given Marco's complaints (and many, many others) about the feel and failure rate, I'm really, really glad I didn't fall in that trap and went with my gut.

I bought the 2015 13-inch MBA in Sept last year and couldn't be happier. Given my needs, I'm hoping to get another 5 years out of the thing and like you I'm hoping Apple will change direction by then.

 

[617660]

The keyboard on the new MacBook and MacBook Pro is one of the reasons makes me appreciate my 2011 MBA. Oh and the ports too

 

[Mainsail]

Well, it looks like the OP has almost gotten his wish with respect to pricing. Best Buy now selling MacBook 12” and NTB MacBook Pro for $1,049. Of course, the MBA is also on sale for $750!

 

[kissymac7]

Well, it looks like the OP has almost gotten his wish with respect to pricing. Best Buy now selling MacBook 12” and NTB MacBook Pro for $1,049. Of course, the MBA is also on sale for $750!

Hi even better best buy selling open box 12 inch 2016 model 512 ssd for 714.00
They even sold out the macbook 12 inch 2016 new for 1,099
With lower price points those 12 inchs WILL sell like the airs..
Airs are great for writers & students because retina is not needed in microsoft word but edit a photo on the air n u will cringe

 

[2984839]

Kill the last remaining keyboard in Apple's laptop lineup? No thanks.

Agreed. The Air's keyboard is surprisingly good for being a thin laptop. The new keyboard takes things way too far and is complete garbage IMO.

 

[Crosscreek]

I owned Mac Mini's for years but got frustrated with Apple in 2014 when the updated 2014 was butchered with soldered ram and accesses to drive bays were removed so in 2015 I built my Hackintosh with triple boot of OS X, Linux and Windows 10.
I love the versatility of my desktop and now I'm looking for a laptop to go with it. I would really like to get a Mac and preferably an updated Air.
I don't know what happened to Apple but they are really putting some crappy laptops out now. All I see is complaints about keyboards which use to be their hallmark along with touch bar hell and dongle jungle ports.
I'm waiting for the 2018's to surface but I won't buy Apple unless they come up with a decent laptop such as the Air.

 

[August West]

I just ordered a new base MBA today to replace my mid 2009 MBP which finally gave up the ghost on Friday night. Glad I got my order in before deepen03 killed off the MBA completely. I looked at the 13" non touch bar MBP and thought it was a better machine overall with a much nicer display but for what I use a laptop for the Air will be fine, is $300 cheaper, has great battery life, has USB A ports and I prefer the older keyboards. I hope to get the same service from it as it did from my 2009 MBP.

And I'm typing this on my late 2012 mini which is still more than adequate for my needs. Glad to see they will be updating the mini so if/when this one dies or is no longer supported I can get a replacement. Not all of us need the latest, greatest high dollar tech to perform our basic day-to-day tasks.

 

[cincygolfgrrl]

Off Topic:
I think Apple is making a big mistake with keyboards. They're building the thinest laptop they can with the thinest keyboard they can fit into it. A good screen is nice, but work is accomplished with the keyboard and trackpad. Any keyboard they sell should be the absolute best keyboard ever. Full stop. The race isn't won by the prettiest computer, it's won by the best.

For the record, my college student granddaughter bought a first generation rMB, the slow one before the updated keyboard. It works perfectly for her and does everything she asks of it.

 

[Falhófnir]

Honestly, objectively looking at the current lineup I think the air still has a place at present, even without a screen update. It is the basic Mac notebook computer, you don’t get any of the bells and whistles like retina, force touch, Thunderbolt 3, but you do get a very competent and functional computer. The only thing is that Apple should either drop the price further to reflect it is getting longer in the tooth each passing week, or at the very least should have bumped it’s chip options to KBL back in June if they wanted to keep selling it this long. But then that’s the sort of decision you get when Wall Street is breathing down your neck to not just be the most profitable company in history, but be the most profitable company in history making ever increasing profits. That sort of pressure is what leads to these bad-for-consumer decisions by management, and I think this is what people are confusing when they say ‘Steve would never have allowed it’ - Steve ran the company primarily when ‘very profitable’ was plenty good enough. Tim has inherited the company carrying investors with unrealistic long term profit growth expectations and these are the decisions he’s having to make as CEO to do his duty to them. And yes he is correct to do the right thing for shareholders first and foremost, it’s just unfortunate that’s leading to the convoluted situations we’re seeing develop in Apple’s product lines. Hopefully sooner or later the next golden goose will come along and the profit wringers will move on to that.

 

[Yvan256]

I think Apple should update the CPU to Kaby Lake, give us an option for 16GB RAM and upgrade the display to 1080p. That would be more than enough to call it an upgrade without making the laptop more expensive. Keep the same ports, the same trackpad, the same keyboard.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think Apple should update the CPU to Kaby Lake, give us an option for 16GB RAM and upgrade the display to 1080p. That would be more than enough to call it an upgrade without making the laptop more expensive. Keep the same ports, the same trackpad, the same keyboard.

I'd actually be interested to know if it would be cheaper for Apple to increase their orders of the 13"MBP display panels to slot into a MBA than finding a bespoke 1200p IPS panel, economy of scale and all that... the only problem then is they'd cannibalise a huge chunk of MBP buyers and their profits with it. In fairness, a 1200p display would probably be close enough that it would result in significant cannibalisation too. Really that's why they haven't moved on it, it needs to be a significant reason not to buy to keep the more expensive 13" models moving off the shelves. It's just frustrating, as you say, that they've got a perfectly competitive form factor that with relatively minor bumps could be right back up there with the best ultrabooks again.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I built my Hackintosh with triple boot of OS X, Linux and Windows 10.
I love the versatility of my desktop

Totally with you - I went the Hackintosh desktop route all the way back in 2012-ish and have built 3 of them so far with the most recent one (built around a 4790k) just being bulletproof with 100% functionality (everything, iMessage, wifi/bt, all of the normal sticking points).

They lost me with only updating iMacs for a long time on the desktop side.
I would consider a Mac Mini in the future if they ever even gave a SNIFF of keeping it updated..

 

[ZapNZs]

I'd actually be interested to know if it would be cheaper for Apple to increase their orders of the 13"MBP display panels to slot into a MBA than finding a bespoke 1200p IPS panel, economy of scale and all that... the only problem then is they'd cannibalise a huge chunk of MBP buyers and their profits with it. In fairness, a 1200p display would probably be close enough that it would result in significant cannibalisation too. Really that's why they haven't moved on it, it needs to be a significant reason not to buy to keep the more expensive 13" models moving off the shelves. It's just frustrating, as you say, that they've got a perfectly competitive form factor that with relatively minor bumps could be right back up there with the best ultrabooks again.

Thumbs up for a solid point.

For all we know, the price difference between the MBA's TN and a mid-level (non-retina) FHD IPS could be ridiculously small - let's say $10 or $20. But, as you noted, that would give a ton of people who prefer the Air's form factor/features over the rMB and MBP reason to buy the Air over the newer Apple portables.

 

[turbineseaplane]

But, as you noted, that would give a ton of people who prefer the Air's form factor/features over the rMB and MBP reason to buy the Air over the newer Apple portables.

I wish they'd consider actually giving some of us what we want here instead of trying to force us up the line.

There used a be at time when they were happy to cannibalize their own products (iPod Mini - with all the colors). I miss that.

 

[mripadmini]

they need to allow people to get quad core processors on 13 or 15 macbook pros and macbook airs with all the same ports ect between the two and allow DGPU's between them both and stop with this must get the 15 inch 2,000+ dollar model in order to get both. will keep buying other brands of desktops and laptops until this changes.