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Well if tipping will send your budget into a tail spin. Then what the heck are you doing eating out? Go to the store and buy some Ramen Noodles and scrape by. Trust me, I have been there...

its not that. as i said i tip generously if they put a good effort. i just cant justify giving someone money if the service is poor when they are just doing their job. i have much more useful things to put my money towards than some waiter i dont know who isn't good.

what comes to mind...tuition,loans,car,living,phone, and yea some budget for some fun things every now and then.

i am not going to eat ramen noodles day in and day out either. why dont the restaurants include service tips in the cost of the food they put on the menu and then i wont feel obligated to pay above the ADVERTISED price of the meal
 
I think I prefer the situation in France, where I vacationned once, instead of Canada, where I live. Over there everything was just built-in to the bill, whereas here you have to do calculations and heuristics to figure out what's right.

Now, for those of you who don't tip at least 10%, you should realise that (in North America at least) those tips DO NOT all go to the server. Typically, the server has to give a fixed percentage of sales to: the house, the kitchen staff, door men, etc. This is not a percentage of tips, but of the actual sales, which means that if you don't tip a certain percentage, you're costing them money! So, if you're feeling all self-righteous, then it's probably better for you to stay at home, and spend your evening rubbing your pennies together...


Unless he's physically wiping my ass, I'd never tip a bathroom attendant. I'm sorry, but having one just isn't necessary. He wouldn't get a tip for passing me a paper towel, which is all most of them do for me.

I think that their purpose is more for security than for actual attending.


Bartenders: $3 on the first drink, $1 every one after

That's pretty smart, you get to make the good first impression, without having to keep it up all night. I think I'm going to do that from now on :)
 
...which means that if you don't tip a certain percentage, you're costing them money!...

I hate this argument; I go into a restaurant and expect to pay for some food that will be brought to my table by a waiter, that seems simple enough.

Why don't restaurants just work out how much this service will cost and make that the price charged rather than work out the cost less service then expect me to figure out the service cost. Does it cost more to carry a truffle from kitchen to table than a burger? No, so if you apply a strict percentage your either overpaying the truffle waiter or screwing the burger waiter. Should the waiter at Jo's diner get paid that much less than the guy at the Four Seasons?

Relying on or expecting tips is ludicrous, stupid even. Why take a job that pays less than minimum wage, I don't get it?
 
I hate this argument; I go into a restaurant and expect to pay for some food that will be brought to my table by a waiter, that seems simple enough.

Why don't restaurants just work out how much this service will cost and make that the price charged rather than work out the cost less service then expect me to figure out the service cost. Does it cost more to carry a truffle from kitchen to table than a burger? No, so if you apply a strict percentage your either overpaying the truffle waiter or screwing the burger waiter. Should the waiter at Jo's diner get paid that much less than the guy at the Four Seasons?

Relying on or expecting tips is ludicrous, stupid even. Why take a job that pays less than minimum wage, I don't get it?

Basically, tipping is a mechanism for allocating a set amount of money, to be directly paid to the people who actually do the labour. It's not going to pay the electricity bill, or be taxed to the government, or go to the owner's son's college fund. Sure, it puts some responsibility in the client's hands, but that's what's necessary, legally, for this end-run to work.

Now, I'm sure you'll all say "why not just charge more for the food, and then pay them more?" Well, there's a couple reasons why. Most labour payment is by the hour, whereas tips are essentially a commission fee. Restaurants operate over a whole day, but tend to get most of their business during peak meal times. So it would actually be harder for a business to do hourly pay calculations than the inherently accurate tip commission. "Ok, so why don't they just raise prices, and pay the 'commission'?" Haha, well, there are several other factors. One being that it's a hidden rider cost, which means that psychologically people see a lower price, so they do business with you, and then pay the actual higher price. If they saw the higher price, they'd be more psychologically averse to entering into the transaction. Even though they're not being tricked, they know a tip is expected.

Also, a fixed commission doesn't really make sense. The reality is that people vary drastically in the amount they are willing to tip. Setting a fixed commission means that some will find it too high, and some would have gladly spent more. Why would a business choose to receive less money than they could? And why would they want to lose a complete transaction from someone who was willing to pay, just only a bit less? In this regard, it's not really the fault of the business that you're subjected to the tipping situation, it's your fellow consumers who create that market situation.

Also, certain waitresses/waiters create value, in the dining experience, themselves. A lot of men will specifically choose a restaurant because of the beauty of the waitresses. Or, people will come back, because a certain server treated them in a certain way. It doesn't really make sense to reward all serving employees, who create different levels of value for the customers and business, equally, when some are clearly doing a better job. Who should decide who gets what commission? In the end, the only fair arbiter would be the customer. Which is how tipping works now.

And that thing about the person carrying out a more expensive thing versus a less expensive thing, and the labour being equal, for a different economic return. Your looking at it from your perspective, as a single transaction. From their perspective, they have hundreds of transactions per day, and those kinds of labour/return differences all average out in the end. So, it might be relevant to you, but the $1 difference to them probably doesn't matter, compared to the $200 total sum.

And I hate to mention this, but I've noticed that a lot of people in the service industry get screwed by their employers for their fixed wages. A lot of places are mom & pop places which will probably go out of business in less than 2 years. Or even in larger places, the manager is probably an alcoholic, or is trying to take as much from the employees, for themselves, as possible. So, the competence and motives of management are questionable. Because of this, it's best for the staff to receive as much of their pay directly from the customer as possible. Tipping is the simplest means of accomplishing this. It's one thing to ask someone to change their method of business, but it's a whole new level of impossibility to ask a restaurant manager to acheive a new level of competence or fairness.
 
If you haven't worked in a service industry job, especially in foodservice, I think that it is hard to appreciate the value of tips.

It's most important for waiters getting ~$2-3 per hour to serve your food. If they do their job as it is supposed to be done, no extra effort, no bad service, and nobody tips them because they 'don't believe in tipping', then all a waiter might walk away with as little as $15 for a night of work, after tax/withholdings.

I look at it this way, there are two costs to getting a meal, paying for the food, the people who cooked it and the building you eat it in, and paying for the person to bring it to you and hop to attention at your every call. If you're too cheap to pay the person who brings you your food, checks on you, fills your drinks, and clears your table, then you should go to a buffet or fast food place.

Tips make up a bit less than half of my pay. Working as a barista a café I get $8/hour from my employer and anywhere from $2-6/hour from tips. I think it's justified for me to accept tips. Much of the time I feel like tips are warranted more by the customer's attitude than mine. If I'm going to keep smiling and accommodating your ridiculous needs all the while you're giving me serious bitchy 'tude, I want some incentive to not give you a blank stare and a monotone. :p
 
i'd tend to agree. why so much for bad service? i can understand rewarding really good service, but IMO bad service deserves a bad tip.

just wondering what the reason is, that's all. :)

Because people have to make a living too and you never know whats going on that caused the bad service. I'm not saying its an excuse, but there have been days at work (salaried job) that i've had off days and my productivity has suffered. I just feel for the person, if everyone leaves him a penny, like an earlier poster said, and he's making $2/hr, its going to make for an even worse day.
 
The best tip, for when servers just suck, is to write "Don't eat the yellow snow" on the credit card slip.

I hate tipping, though. I love going places where gratuity isn't expected. Conversely, I hate having gratuity included on my bill, especially when it's not advertised ahead of time. I've been tempted to write in a negative number on the tip line of places that do that, calculate the total, sign it and dispute the charge with my CC company if they don't bill me the correct amount.

I'd be HAPPY to pay more for my meal if the waitstaff was paid a decent hourly wage, and got tips if they were really good at their job. Also, just to continue out that "people at McDonalds do the same job as a waiter but you don't tip them" argument, now that McDonalds sells those froofy coffee drinks, can we FINALLY stop with those stupid tip jars at coffee shops?

YOU POOR COFFEE *******. You can call yourself a "barista" all you want, and the janitor can call himself a maintenance engineer, too, but that doesn't give him an engineering degree.

I think that Mr. Pink was right when he said (I'm paraphrasing here) "if they don't like making $2 an hour they should learn to ****ing type".

Dwight Schrute also had a good rule of thumb: don't tip people for doing jobs I'm capable of doing myself.
 
Basically, tipping is a mechanism for allocating a set amount of money, to be directly paid to the people who actually do the labour. It's not going to pay the electricity bill, or be taxed to the government, or go to the owner's son's college fund. Sure, it puts some responsibility in the client's hands, but that's what's necessary, legally, for this end-run to work.
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Tips are taxed. All tips left on credit cards are reported to the IRS and people are obligated to report cash tips or they are breaking the law. Tips are legally classified as wage/compensation, just like any other pay. Your argument makes no sense. Pay a waiter $8 an hour and charge me an extra buck fifty for my steak, the end result is the same.
 
Tips are taxed. All tips left on credit cards are reported to the IRS and people are obligated to report cash tips or they are breaking the law. Tips are legally classified as wage/compensation, just like any other pay. Your argument makes no sense. Pay a waiter $8 an hour and charge me an extra buck fifty for my steak, the end result is the same.

Yes, tips that are written down are taxed, but most people don't write that down... And a lot of servers work completely under the table, even for their hourly wage. Which might sound wrong, but they're probably not making much more than the Canadian tax basic personal amount anyways, so it's kinda moot anyhow.

Did you even read the several paragraphs about the commission explanation? What makes no sense is talking about $8/hr and $50 more for steak. No idea what you're trying to argue.
 
No way I tip anyone at the moment. :p I need my money!

So do the servers. So I hope you're eating at fast food places and making KD.

I went through my starving student days, but I still did what I could. There were a few times I failed to give tips on haircuts, because I just didn't know. That story about the big tip in the fancy seafood place happened while I was a student.

You seem to have enough money to contribute to Macrumors, and presumably to buy Apple products, so you can't be that poor. :)
 
So do the servers. So I hope you're eating at fast food places and making KD.

I went through my starving student days, but I still did what I could. There were a few times I failed to give tips on haircuts, because I just didn't know. That story about the big tip in the fancy seafood place happened while I was a student.

You seem to have enough money to contribute to Macrumors, and presumably to buy Apple products, so you can't be that poor. :)

I'm not saying I'm poor by any means. I just believe that these people have applied for the job knowing what the wage is, and that is what they can expect to receive. If they don't feel its enough, get another job. I hated how pretty much everywhere in America I went people expected a tip - it is a very different culture in England I think. You tip if you feel the waiter or whoever it is has been exceptionally good - not just to everyone.
 
I hated how pretty much everywhere in America I went people expected a tip - it is a very different culture in England I think. You tip if you feel the waiter or whoever it is has been exceptionally good - not just to everyone.

Ah, ok. I didn't check where you were from, I assumed you were in North America. Yes, I agree with you in concept, but unfortunately it's part of the culture here that tipping is expected.
 
How much would you tip a waiter/waitress who served you a 75 dollar meal?
I always round up to the nearest whole number (I think that's the right term....it's been a while since I've taken math) then tip 20%. Using my formula I would leave a $16 tip.
 
This applies only to those living in countries (such as the USA) where tipping is the social convention.

I love the excuses people come up with to justify them being cheap.

This idea that waiters should just get a different job instead of taking one where less than minimum wage is paid, is illogical. Waiters take the job because they do expect tips. This is because the majority of people tip and most tip the expected amount. Someone being a stingy ******* is NOT going to change this system.

If you think that tipping is a scam, then buy yourself a TV dinner, stay home and watch wrestling. And don't expect me to feel sorry for you if you say you can't afford to tip. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. It's very simple.

To be up front, I am a bartender so I do work for tips. Tipping is how I make my living. Some people tip between 30 and 50 percent. Most people fall somewhere in the 20 percent range. At any rate, bartenders know who tips well and who doesn't. If you can hear your tip hit the bar, chances are that you're being too cheap. As a general rule, don't mess with the person who signs your paycheck, cuts your hair, or mixes your drinks. The results are guaranteed to be anything but pleasant.
 
Here in the US it is the way it is. They get paid less than minimum wage because of the tip system. To say "if you don't like it get another job" is just a bit harsh, and if that's your only justification for being stingy then that is sad indeed. It's not that simple for some people. Not everyone has the broad range of choices that it seems a lot of people contributing to this thread have. No, it's not your fault they have this job, no it's not your fault the system is the way it is. But when I enter a restaurant I know I will have to pay for the meal and a fee (or "tip) for getting my ass kissed (having food brought to me, my drinks re-filled, the table cleared, etc.). In my opinion, if you feel entitled to get your ass kissed then the people kissing your ass are entitled to a tip, provided they did a good job tending to your needs as a paying customer. For the record I do disagree with the way it is done...I would much prefer a system where they are paid a decent wage and the tipping system can be done away with. However it is not done that way and I will not punish the poor waiter/waitress for a system I disagree with. If you hate this system so much don't go out to eat. It's that simple.

That being said I tip 15-20% at a restaurant and usually $3-$5 for pizza deliveries (on orders up to $20)

I also guarantee if you had the opportunity to work in this industry you would change your tune skippy-quick.
Walking one mile in another mans shoes is so very enlightening.
 
I also guarantee if you had the opportunity to work in this industry you would change your tune skippy-quick.
Walking one mile in another mans shoes is so very enlightening.

I have never worked as a waiter but I have worked retail, in the Hardware department of a major Canadian retailer that sells Tires, among other things. Despite the long hours, low pay, and hard work, I actually found the experience quite enlightening, even enjoyable.

I worked there for a couple of months one summer because I needed a part time job to help make ends meet while finishing my Master's degree in Electrical Engineering. I think they hired me on that basis alone, as my interview pretty much went like this: "A master's, eh? Smart man. So, how would you feel about working in Hardware?"

I mention that only because I find that people treat you two ways, simultaneously. They expect you to be an expert in your sales area (which is reasonable) and they treat you with ridiculous disdain when they realize you don't have instant answers to everything. (While some of the workers really are handymen and experts, the rest of us rely on our own real-world knowledge, only slightly augmented by "training" they provide. But think about it -- if you were a knowledgeable handyman/contractor, why wouldn't you be out there plying your trade instead of working minimum wage?) In a store of tens of thousands of products including all manner of nuts and bolts, I hated that look of disgust when I couldn't immediately find the right gewgaw, or dig up the last one the computer says we have, assuming it wasn't stolen, that's buried in the back of the warehouse without making them wait more than a whole three minutes.

Some treat you with this disdain automatically, figuring that they must be smarter or better than anyone who works a minimum wage job. I remember one guy that came in wearing a jacket from the high-tech company I used to work at before getting my Master's. His body language absolutely radiated "I'm better than you" -- I guess we'd never passed each other in the halls at the other company.

One lady seemed to come straight out of the Hollywood School of Snobbery -- without so much as a gesture of friendly acknowledgement, she walked up to me, pointed at a display pile of plastic drawer cabinets, and demanded, "Get me a cart, and put two of those in it. I'll be in the other aisle looking at <whatever>".

I helped another lady do her entire shopping trip, even helping her roll the cart to the parking lot and load up her car. And she was snarling and complaining the entire time! The next day I saw her walking up, and I suddenly decided it was time to inventory the paint cans and let someone else help her.

Now that I have been there, done that, I am a little more forgiving when the salesperson doesn't have an immediate answer or makes me wait for a widget. I even find myself straightening up displays sometimes. I take pride in a job well done -- even if it wasn't my job to do :)
 
To be up front, I am a bartender so I do work for tips. Tipping is how I make my living. Some people tip between 30 and 50 percent. Most people fall somewhere in the 20 percent range. At any rate, bartenders know who tips well and who doesn't.

The only folk who tip UK barmen are the American tourists ;)

Having said that, if I'm in a bar where I expect to spend a fair amount of time and it's reasonably busy, I'll make sure that I give a good tip to the barman with the first round - on the grounds that it tends to get you quicker service for the rest of the evening.
 
Dwight Schrute also had a good rule of thumb: don't tip people for doing jobs I'm capable of doing myself.

The average person is a joke at making coffee drinks. Honestly...I train the new people at work in how to use the machine and make the different drinks. It's not like we're just playing around with fancy jets of steam and stuff back there. If someone comes in my shop and orders a drink that they can make themselves, I don't expect a tip. Fine. If they want to take the time to learn how to properly work the machine, prepare the milk and coffee and make a drink, then they don't have to tip me, but 99% of people coming through the front door have no idea where to start making the drinks that they order, and really don't care to learn.
 
This applies only to those living in countries (such as the USA) where tipping is the social convention.

I love the excuses people come up with to justify them being cheap.

This idea that waiters should just get a different job instead of taking one where less than minimum wage is paid, is illogical. Waiters take the job because they do expect tips. This is because the majority of people tip and most tip the expected amount. Someone being a stingy ******* is NOT going to change this system.

It seems "illogical" for you the serviceperson to expect tips -especially enough tips to live on - when tipping is based on both very subjective determinations of "good" service and differing views on when/if a tip should be left.


To be up front, I am a bartender so I do work for tips. Tipping is how I make my living. Some people tip between 30 and 50 percent. Most people fall somewhere in the 20 percent range. At any rate, bartenders know who tips well and who doesn't. If you can hear your tip hit the bar, chances are that you're being too cheap. As a general rule, don't mess with the person who signs your paycheck, cuts your hair, or mixes your drinks. The results are guaranteed to be anything but pleasant.

This is the whole attitude that bothers me about tipping: you're NOT automatically entitled to a 20% tip. You have to actually earn it. If you provide decent service (or better) you'll make at least your 15-20% tip off me. But if all you can manage is to show up and do the absolute bare minimum, my tip (or lack thereof) will reflect that.

[And if you really believe that a waiter/bartender/et al is entitled to a tip, regardless of service provided, then we obviously disagree on what a tip is.]
 
I went to a chinese restaurant the other day (not a buffet those are nasty) anyways they are closed between 3-5pm but they recognized my friend from telling the chef that the meal was excellent from last time and the opened up the restaurant just for us so I tipped them a little over 50% and the service and food was excellent.
 
The average person is a joke at making coffee drinks. Honestly...I train the new people at work in how to use the machine and make the different drinks. It's not like we're just playing around with fancy jets of steam and stuff back there. If someone comes in my shop and orders a drink that they can make themselves, I don't expect a tip. Fine. If they want to take the time to learn how to properly work the machine, prepare the milk and coffee and make a drink, then they don't have to tip me, but 99% of people coming through the front door have no idea where to start making the drinks that they order, and really don't care to learn.

Come on - how long does it take to train a person to make a cup of coffee?! Are you really going to tell me that making my girlfriend's overpriced strawberry iced mochichina or steamed whatever takes anything more then 15 minutes of training and using a blender?
 
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