Toshiba Prototypes 120 GB 1.8

[gnasher729]

I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music, and i simply do not believe that many people legitimately own that much music.

People having 2000 CDs will often use whatever cheap sources they can find. If you have that amount, you don't have to buy every CD at full price when it comes out, you can buy it at half price a year later or a fourth of the price three years later in a used shop. 2000 CDs likely only cost $10000 or a bit more.

But even $40,000 is just the difference between a top-of-the-range Mercedes and a not-quite-top-of-the-range one.

 

[nemaslov]

People having 2000 CDs will often use whatever cheap sources they can find. If you have that amount, you don't have to buy every CD at full price when it comes out, you can buy it at half price a year later or a fourth of the price three years later in a used shop. 2000 CDs likely only cost $10000 or a bit more.

But even $40,000 is just the difference between a top-of-the-range Mercedes and a not-quite-top-of-the-range one.

OK I have spent 3K to 5K a year on physical music (CD, LPs etc.) for at least the past 15 to 20 years. Some new, some used, I still get some promos. I know this since I write it all off, but that is another story. Nd I seem to be addicted to wonderful box stes. LOVE the packagaing. That is something I will miss big time and digital only sales expand. I love alternate takes, out takes, demos and so on.

 

[majordude]

People having 2000 CDs will often use whatever cheap sources they can find.

A confession! It's the rack for you!

- The RIAA Inquisition

 

[mihiruthere93]

A confession! It's the rack for you!

- The RIAA Inquisition

HA HA so true... it's so funny how they crack down on the down-loaders and not the seeds... go limewire, I guess.

 

[Homerun7dh]

A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

considering how bad iPods sound from an Audiophile standpoint, iPods definitely have room for improvement. songs are going to get bigger and sound better. can't wait for the day....

probably 15% of my music library is full quality wav files.

so eventually we'll need a 240GB iPod to hold a normal library.

 

[Eduardo1971]

OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS..... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

AMEN my brother!!!

I'm pushing 100 GB JUST OF MUSIC on my Macbook (yes all legal)! The scary thing is this just part of my music collection. I have upwards of 1500 CD's and 600+ vinyl albums; I need all the (portable) storage I can get to carry my music with me.

 

[majordude]

...considering how bad iPods sound from an Audiophile standpoint...

If you swap out the crappy earphones Apple provides, iPods sound plenty good to me.

 

[Squonk]

If you swap out the crappy earphones Apple provides, iPods sound plenty good to me.

Yes, good headphones go a long way to improve the sound. But it does now bring the iPod to the level of say a Mark Levinson CD & DAC combination, nor should it for $300. The key word being audiophile...

On a side note for the audiophiles out there, is there such a thing as a dock with optical or coax digital out so you can take your iPod as an input for a DAC? I do this now with my Airport Express, but I'd like to just dock the pod on the rack of equipment. Thx.

 

[Fluffymuff]

Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using.

Actually, magnetic drives have been found in the wreckages of ships dating back to the 1700s. Interesting stuff. Sadly, the platters are too rusted over to retrieve any data, but the technology is almost identical to much of what is used today, just with smaller capacity and more primative OS.

There are even references to magnetic drives in ancient Grecian texts, although that is somewhat controversial since no extant examples have yet been found.

HMMMMMMMMM, somebody somewhere must have done a study, varing for IQ, what's the human brain rated at GB wise?

Brain CPU: Estimates of around 10^14 (100 trillion) to 10^16 instructions per second for an average brain, achievable and affordable around 2030.

Brain Memory: 10^13 to 10^18 (a billion billion) bits. Current trajectories estimate that will be achievable by 2020 for $1000 USD.

By 2050, $1000 will buy more processing power than all brains on Earth combined.

 

[majordude]

...nor should it for $300.

Well, to that we all agree!

 

[winterspan]

Flash has moved QUICK!

Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using. Why is it taking soo long for flash to catch up would be a better question. Toshiba offers a laptop with dual drives, but they max out at 160GB a piece, I'm not sure if anyone makes a 500GB laptop drive to swap in, seagate maxes out at 160, western digital at 250...

"taking so long for flash to catch up" ? Seriously? Flash is moving FAST. Look at flash storage densities over the past 6-7 years, it has truly been astounding. I will find a chart if I can, but I remember when 256MB was an expensive "premium" in an mp3 player. This had to be around 1998. Now days you can pickup an 4,000MB (4GB) card for 1/3 of the price. If you want to pay the price of an early 256MB ($150-$200) you can even pickup a 16,000MB (16GB) card. Thats 62.5X the amount of storage for the same price in less than 10 years. And soon 32GB cards will be out. I don't know if harddisks have moved a whole lot faster than that, but its pretty significant.

 

[winterspan]

Never say "too much"

I'm sorry but its getting to the point that these media devices have more space than our computers. I have a macbook which I upgraded with a 250gig hard drive (The largest currently available). Of which I have about 150gigs of media that could be put onto an iPod. As a mobile computer user I love having everything with me where ever I am. But to fill that I would need an external HD!?!?! It Kind of seems like they should focus more on getting Flash memory into the 30-80gb range for the iPod touch/iPhone before progressing into the 240gb range in the iPod classic.

Saying the words "too much space" is getting into dangerous territory.. lol
About the Ipod/media devices, you have to remember that the 1.8" drives are the same technology as in your laptop, only the drive is a bit bigger at 2.5".
So besides some technical differences accounting for maybe 5-10%, you can usually just determine the ratio of the surface area of a 1.8" HDD to a 2.5" HDD and that will always tell you how much your Ipod will hold vs your laptop.

I actually like that they are somewhat close in that I keep most of my video/music "archived" on my HDD iPod so I don't have to fill up my laptop HDD.

 

[winterspan]

hahah - I know, people don't even look a foot in front of them

i kinda can't wait until HDs are big enough (like 1TB) for no one to really care about it's size, or even comment about it, as it will just hold everything...

Seriously, all the people on here saying 'thats so much music dude.. how could you listen to it all.. who needs a 200GB ipod???' are missing a few points here.

1) People who have decent stereos DON'T RIP CD'S @ 128kbps MP3 for god sakes. Apple Lossless or FLAC or even PCM takes up *WAY* more space than a 164 or 192 kbps MP3/AAC. Even you kids out there that just use headphones all the time should start thinking about this. Otherwise in 3-5 years you are going to have to rerip all your music when you get a nice system in an apartment/house in college.

2) Have you even seen the file sizes for lossless 5.1 surround sound music? (Live concerts, etc)

3) Video? hello? Even storing DVD quality video for plugging into TV's on an Ipod takes 700MB-1GB for each movie. Imagine a couple of seasons of ONE TV show, 30-45 mins x 50-60 episodes... See where Im going?

3) HD Video! Already alot of broadcast TV shows are 720P. A season of just ONE show can easily take up 8-10GB+. I have about 8 shows that I rip from OTA broadcast, and it already takes a big chunk of my external 300GB.
And just wait until everybody's movies are H264/DivX-HD 1080P with Lossless 7.1 surround. 15-30GB/movie will fill up a 200GB drive quick.

4-5+ years from now, we'll see ALL theater movies being made in 4K digital cinema which is 4X the size of 1080P and I'll bet soon after that we'll start to see 4K HDTV's and 4K "Ultraviolet-RAY" players with discs (and their stored movies) at least 1/2 terabyte or more.

People, you need to learn from the past. Moore's law is going NOWHERE. I bet things only continue to accelerate.

 

[winterspan]

Well back to my original post, having just got my new 160GB Classic, there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Almost 12GB of "software?"

software, format/filesystem overhead, Gigabytes vs Gibibytes aka 1000^3 vs 1024^3

 

[winterspan]

Hitachi and other HDD companies work on HDDs

Not gonna lie, I see absolutely no need for a drive that large in a device such as the iPod, but fantastic for all of those that would want this.

I'd rather see more focus put on NAND and get those up to in size.

about "no need" for such a drive, see my other post about lossless music,
lossless 5.1 surround concerts, DVD quality video storage, and most importantly, HD 720P/1080P 5.1 lossless surround movies/television shows? It only takes a little bit of each to fill a 160GB ipod, TRUST ME. Maybe you don't buy/record television shows or movies, but I would assume most people do. And many don't like storing hundreds of CD's and DVDs in your living room (or in your pocket).

 

[winterspan]

Free market economics...

Why are we still focusing on improving this technology? I mean, yes it's useful now, if they mass produced the second they got it out, but shouldn't technology that focuses on mobile devices concentrate more on enlarging more long lasting technology like flash, compact flash, and solid state? Laptops are going thin and iPods/other mp3 devices are everywhere; since people want lighter, quicker, and more space, wouldn't it make more sense to invest the R&D money into technologies that will be replacing this sort of thing?
- Kira

You act as if all the companies doing technology research are in collaboration with each other with a central committee making all the decisions.
The HardDisk manufacturers who do alot of the HDD R&D are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the companies who do most of the Flash memory R&D / manufacturing. The HDD companies are working as fast as possible to keep their devices' storage density/capacities up and costs down, and the flash manufacturers are trying to do the same to catch up and replace most of the HDD industry.
Just like with nearly all industries, it's basic FREE MARKET supply and demand that controls what technology gets made and how much R&D dollars go where. For now, the benefits of Flash memory (higher speed, solid state nature, etc) don't come near the much lower cost and higher storage capacities of hard disk drives. At some point in the future, if flash prices per MB come alot closer to that of HDDs, then the demand of the market will drive their sales and the doom of HDDs, unless HDD manufacturers have a large capacity advantage. I'm rambling now, but I hope you are getting my point.
There is no "technology research" supreme council that decides where the R&D money goes or what products are produced.

 

[winterspan]

considering how bad iPods sound from an Audiophile standpoint, iPods definitely have room for improvement. songs are going to get bigger and sound better. can't wait for the day....

probably 15% of my music library is full quality wav files.

so eventually we'll need a 240GB iPod to hold a normal library.

You should go Apple Lossless or even better go with the "free" FLAC format, it'll cut down your WAV's quite a bit.