TSMC Begins Trial Manufacturing of Apple A6 Processors

[pacmacman]

Except that he's right. It has nothing to do with spending more money on something you like, it has everything to do with the attitude that Apple can do no wrong and every decision they make is the best decision for everyone involved. I've spent the same amount of money on some of the same Apple products as many other people have but I don't swear a blind allegiance to Apple.

He's not right. I don't see any "blind allegiance" anymore than I see blind allegiance on an Android board. People who post here prefer Apple products, most of them prefer them because they're well made, satisfying devices that they feel meet their needs better than competitors. The blind allegiance you're referring to is called "preference." There's a big difference.

I remember when Apple haters (not suggesting you're necessarily one) used to insist people that used Macs were blinded by the logo and "wanting to be cool." Now that a huge swath of PC owners use and enjoy iPhones, they're still making that same argument. At some point you'd think they'd realize gee, maybe Apple just makes some really fantastic products that are enjoyable to use? Naaaaah. It's the Apple logo. That's the only reason anyone buys this stuff.

 

[gnasher729]

Has anyone paused to consider that Apple might be planning on using both TSMC and Samsung, because they need so many chips, and to diversify risk?

I think in the end Apple and Samsung are in a patent dispute, and Apple will try to demonstrate to Samsung that this dispute will cost Samsung money. I suspect that we will hear that the TSMC trial was very successful. (Like Apple saying to TSMC: How much does it cost to get a report of a very successful trial? )

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

apple never makes a huge move like this, too much risk. just look at the aluminum body thing.

When I started at Apple in 2004 the old saying was if ain't broke don't fix it. When I left Apple in 2009 the new motto was, whatever brings in the customers.

I think in the end Apple and Samsung are in a patent dispute, and Apple will try to demonstrate to Samsung that this dispute will cost Samsung money. I suspect that we will hear that the TSMC trial was very successful. (Like Apple saying to TSMC: How much does it cost to get a report of a very successful trial? )

Pretty much spot on with my analysis. This happens in the business world all the time. We did it recently. We have been a client of Vendor A for almost 15 years but they weren't budging on prices so we held a POC for 3 more vendors. We spent 3 months testing a lot of equipment only to find out the new contract was award back to Vendor A but with huge cost reductions on our part. Sometimes as a client you need to remind the vendor that they need you. Great tactic and I hope it works out for the best for Apple and us the clients.

 

[2IS]

He's not right. I don't see any "blind allegiance" anymore than I see blind allegiance on an Android board. People who post here prefer Apple products, most of them prefer them because they're well made, satisfying devices that they feel meet their needs better than competitors. The blind allegiance you're referring to is called "preference." There's a big difference.

lol, just because you see the same thing on andriod forums doesn't mean it doesn't exist here. Thank you for not only proving his point but now mine as well. Two groups of people acting stupid proves your case how exactly?

 

[maclaptop]

This "move" is a bigger headache for Apple than Samsung, that much I can assure you. Apple is a Samsung customer and is reliant upon them. Samsung never has and never will be reliant on Apple. Their silicon goes into a LOT of products that don't have tattooed on them.

Very true.

While Apple buys a huge amount of product from Samsung, what many do not realize is the age (founded in 1935) and the massive overall size of Samsung.

Dominate for decades in many worldwide industries, Samsung can weather the storm between themselves and Apple quite easily. Besides despite how it's being portrayed in the US tech sector, this "war" between Samsung and Apple is but a tiny blip on Samsung's radar.

Samsung has, and will prevail in every important area of commerce they are involved in. Taken as a whole, they have never been larger, stronger, more fiercely competitive and less dependent on any of the vast number of their contractual agreements with other companies.

 

[crazy dave]

Really, I believe it was SJ who walked out of IBM meeting after telling them that it would be great when they would be done with them.
I believe Apple also screwed over motorala when jumping over to IBM then screwed IBM when jumping over to Intel and I would not put it pass Apple to screw intel and going somewhere else.

Or you have the reports of the past of Apple getting companies to commit to making a huge amount of nand memory to help flood the market with those just to get them at a lower price.

Apple has a reputation of being a hard customer to deal with and chewing up and spitting out suppliers. When you are top dog and when times are bad yeah you can get away with it but when times are good you get bumped down the list and other times they raise the price on you so yeah if they are going to commit to it it is going to cost Apple.
Remember there are other customers other than Apple who are trying to buy parts so they just go to them and leave Apple behind.

As I recall there was a lot of mutual screwing in the Apple-Motorola-IBM relationship. Apple's reputation as a tough customer stems from its insistence on secrecy and custom parts and its otherwise high demands. That means its partners have to blindly trust that Apple knows what it is doing while delivering to Apple non-standard versions of their products. Companies didn't appreciate this behavior when Apple was a relatively small customer. That's what has earned Apple its reputation. Leaving one source for another source happens all the time and is only rarely considered "screwing".

Apple-Intel seem to be much cozier & amicable than the old Apple-Motorola-IBM alliance was - at least publicly. It won't last forever, no business alliance does, but it seems fairly stable for the moment.

Apple represents a sizable fraction of Samsung's chip fabrication business. While I have no doubt that Samsung could replace Apple's business, to suggest that it would be immediate and painless, which you seem to be doing, is a little silly. It would indeed impact Samsung. That said, opening a new product line with TSMC would be expensive/potentially buggy in its opening and I believe others here are correct when they point out that Apple sunk $1 billion dollars into Samsung fabrication infrastructure including sourcing LCDs from them. It seems more likely to me that Apple may be testing out a new product line with TSMC (like, for the sake of the argument, one source manufacturing the iphone chip and one source manufacturing the ipad chip) rather than transferring its entire product line to TSMC. Of course with Apple's secrecy, hence the existence of sites like Macrumors, who knows? Well maybe Apple. However, tech companies being "frenemies" and suing each other while working together seems par for the course and if it always resulted in bad blood and non-cooperation, nobody in the tech world would be able to create anything.

 

[pacmacman]

lol, just because you see the same thing on andriod forums doesn't mean it doesn't exist here. Thank you for not only proving his point but now mine as well. Two groups of people acting stupid proves your case how exactly?

I didn't suggest anyone was acting stupid, either here or Android forums. I stated that people post to these forums because they prefer the devices in question, that goes for Android folks as well. Your point was that Apple people are obsessively loyal sheep who don't question or care about anything other than insisting Apple is right. My post stated that was an overreach, people just happen to like the products they spend their money on.

And you're welcome all the same despite not really understanding what I wrote. I believe in courtesy above all else.

 

[shompa]

I really think that most here are computer Agnostic. We will use what works best for us. All mac users have used Windows. Most windows users won't touch a mac. Usually they say stuff like: You are stupid, you can get a Dell for 30% less.

Same goes with Android. You are stupid. You can get a dual core Android.

They don't understand or respect that I don't care about a list of spec. I care about how the things work.
--
Samsung Vs Apple.

Apple does not want to hurt/or believe they will hurt Samsung by moving SoC production from Samsung.

Apple feels that Samsung uses Apple. Apple orders screens, flash memory, memory and SoC from Samsung. Somehow these parts ends up in Samsung products six month after Apples products.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Except that he's right. It has nothing to do with spending more money on something you like, it has everything to do with the attitude that Apple can do no wrong and every decision they make is the best decision for everyone involved. I've spent the same amount of money on some of the same Apple products as many other people have but I don't swear a blind allegiance to Apple.

Thanks, you understand where I was coming from. It has nothing to do with spending money on something you like, it's the holier than thou attitude that seems to be so prevalent on most Apple forums.

Really, I believe it was SJ who walked out of IBM meeting after telling them that it would be great when they would be done with them.
I believe Apple also screwed over motorala when jumping over to IBM then screwed IBM when jumping over to Intel and I would not put it pass Apple to screw intel and going somewhere else.

Or you have the reports of the past of Apple getting companies to commit to making a huge amount of nand memory to help flood the market with those just to get them at a lower price.

Apple has a reputation of being a hard customer to deal with and chewing up and spitting out suppliers. When you are top dog and when times are bad yeah you can get away with it but when times are good you get bumped down the list and other times they raise the price on you so yeah if they are going to commit to it it is going to cost Apple.
Remember there are other customers other than Apple who are trying to buy parts so they just go to them and leave Apple behind.

What goes around comes around and some day the arrogance will come back and bite them in the you know what.

lol, just because you see the same thing on andriod forums doesn't mean it doesn't exist here. Thank you for not only proving his point but now mine as well. Two groups of people acting stupid proves your case how exactly?

It exists on many forums, and I think it's kind of dumb no matter where it exists. But I have to say that in many many years of internet use, I have never seen it as prevalent as it is on Apple forums.

 

[dernhelm]

Very true.
Dominate for decades in many worldwide industries, Samsung can weather the storm between themselves and Apple quite easily. Besides despite how it's being portrayed in the US tech sector, this "war" between Samsung and Apple is but a tiny blip on Samsung's radar.

Samsung has, and will prevail in every important area of commerce they are involved in. Taken as a whole, they have never been larger, stronger, more fiercely competitive and less dependent on any of the vast number of their contractual agreements with other companies.

Uh, this is much more than a tiny blip on Samsung's radar. This will represent a significant loss of income. But it will be a loss that Samsung thinks they will make up in selling their own tier 1 products. Unless Samsung execs are very, very, stupid (and they're not) they knew they were rolling the dice when they decided to make direct competitors to Apple products (especially the way they did it).

There is no way that Samsung went into this thinking that their position as #1 supplier of these parts to Apple wouldn't be compromised. They simply figured the loss of income into their plans, and will move on. They are big and diverse enough, and their products are good enough that this won't be the end of Samsung by any stretch.

 

[Rocketman]

I don't know why so many people are misled into believing Apple will forsake Samsung. Apple needs the production capacity of all qualified suppliers and Samsung is vast enough to supply major components from flash, to displays, to processors and more.

Yes they are suing each other over patents, but that is in effect a subsidiary of each company. The sales and manufacturing subsidiaries each have very selfish and very successful interactions.

Apple cannot even release low end products because all existing and newly capitalized bespoke factories, are dedicated to high value items, which are in near constant shortage despite the price.

The lawyers will fight over the patents and the monetary impact will be minimal to both firms and then a license fee will be established. Any time you hear about having products stopped at the border due to an ITC filing, that is an extreme outcome that nearly never happens associated with any Apple involved suits on either side. Perhaps except for actual pirating. What really happens is that is a legal and negotiating ploy to force a larger settlement amount. Once the settlement happens and the funds have been wired, all the threats of import restrictions and further IP claims simply go away on those patents. It always has so far in any case.

Rocketman

cite:

"Fortune noted earlier today that Apple has finally caught up with iPad 2 demand this weekend with shipping times down to 1-3 business days. This comes over 4 months since the iPad 2 was originally launched in March." - Front page 7-17-11

 

[KingCrimson]

You are telling me that they could not find another client/clients that would fill Apple void.
I was implying that the fabs would not sit idle for very long if at all. So back to my orginal point.

Especially with Windows Phone 7 handsets ramping up. That will easily replace Apple.

 

[KingCrimson]

Very true.

While Apple buys a huge amount of product from Samsung, what many do not realize is the age (founded in 1935) and the massive overall size of Samsung.

Dominate for decades in many worldwide industries, Samsung can weather the storm between themselves and Apple quite easily. Besides despite how it's being portrayed in the US tech sector, this "war" between Samsung and Apple is but a tiny blip on Samsung's radar.

Samsung has, and will prevail in every important area of commerce they are involved in. Taken as a whole, they have never been larger, stronger, more fiercely competitive and less dependent on any of the vast number of their contractual agreements with other companies.

Yet Apple makes as much profit as the entire Samsung Group.

 

[chrmjenkins]

Especially with Windows Phone 7 handsets ramping up. That will easily replace Apple.

WP7 aren't shipping near the volume that iPhones are. And only Samsung WP7 devices will be the ones to utilize those fabs. HTC, LG, Nokia: none of them use samsung fabs.

 

[2IS]

Yet Apple makes as much profit as the entire Samsung Group.

And that relates to this topic how?

 

[neko girl]

You are limiting yourself to only the phone market. You need to remember the market is a lot bigger than phone or even devices with screens.

Rodimus, I think it's relevant to note that Samsung's mobile division was the only business to report growth YoY at Samsung for the latest quarter 2011. The market may be a lot bigger than smartphones, but in Samsung's case TVs are selling very poorly, and anything other than smartphones are seeing poor growth as well.

And that relates to this topic how?

He's probably trying to say that Apple's $8 billion in cash is probably not Samsung can laugh away. It may not be crazy to think this amount of money would be important to their business.

 

[pacmacman]

Thanks, you understand where I was coming from. It has nothing to do with spending money on something you like, it's the holier than thou attitude that seems to be so prevalent on most Apple forums.

Please point out an instance of what you're referring to. So far the only holier than thou attitude I've seen has come from you on the subject.

CAse in point:

It exists on many forums, and I think it's kind of dumb no matter where it exists. But I have to say that in many many years of internet use, I have never seen it as prevalent as it is on Apple forums.

No kidding. The guys who keep perpetrating the "iSheep" meme just don't seem to ever give it a rest.

 

[2IS]

He's probably trying to say that Apple's $8 billion in cash is probably not Samsung can laugh away. It may not be crazy to think this amount of money would be important to their business.

Um yeah, too bad that's not even remotely close to what was said. Perhaps you should try reading it again.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Please point out an instance of what you're referring to. So far the only holier than thou attitude I've seen has come from you on the subject.

CAse in point:



No kidding. The guys who keep perpetrating the "iSheep" meme just don't seem to ever give it a rest.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

 

[pacmacman]

None are so blind as those who will not see.

Haha yeah. I didn't think you had any examples to offer either.

 

[bruinsrme]

WP7 aren't shipping near the volume that iPhones are. And only Samsung WP7 devices will be the ones to utilize those fabs. HTC, LG, Nokia: none of them use samsung fabs.

are you saying that Samsung will not be able to open up their fab to customers other than those that utilize phone processors?

Every intel fab goes through full loading to hot bagging tools for slow downs. When new products come in the line the tools are brought back up and run.

Todays fabs are very flexible and can easily adapt to a multitude of products to support internal and external customers.

Samsung will just have to find new customers. perhaps those being displace by TSMC signing on with Apple.

High volume fab/high yielidng fab space is always in demand. I would be surprised if Samsung wasn't running a full factory a quarter after their Apple commitment is finished. They can always flood the market with memory chips just to keep the tools warm.

On the other hand, samsung may take this time to retool their stepper/scanner tools to support <30 micron processes.

 

[2IS]

Haha yeah. I didn't think you had any examples to offer either.

Proving his point yet again I see?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Haha yeah. I didn't think you had any examples to offer either.

You've got to be joking. You're seriously stating that you have never seen any examples of the blind, Apple rules, Steve is god, etc posted on this site? Please.

 

[pacmacman]

Proving his point yet again I see?

You've got to be joking. You're seriously stating that you have never seen any examples of the blind, Apple rules, Steve is god, etc posted on this site? Please.

How many Apple haters does it take to screw up an argument?

 

[2IS]

I own a Macbook Air, on my 2nd iphone, and will be on my 3rd iphone when it comes time to upgrade. I'm hardly an Apple hater. I'm just not an Apple cheerleader and I don't think Steve Jobs is god. Know the difference.

How many dumb and irrelevant comments does it take before the author stops posting?