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While I'm fully aware of significance of this accomplishment. It's something only tech enthusiasts understand and appreciate. These are the very people that are accused of prefering Android over the much simpler & basic iOS.

Therefore the point is, it's lost on the mainstream customer who doesn't care about anything other than the Apple logo, and the fact that they want to be seen with an iPhone or iPad.

Meanwhile the die size is not going to help Apples dismal stock performance. This is, after all, a publicly traded business.

Here's something about public perspective on Apple:
http://www.france24.com/en/20130309-googles-star-rises-apple-fades

Higher yields and better power efficiency on the chips used in the popular but low margin iPad mini, allows them to increase margins (they can also put a smaller battery in the iPad mini and iPod touch while getting the same performance), one of the issues investors had with the previous quarter.
 
I don't see why it would have contained an A5X chip. The A5X was the same chip as the A5, just with more GPU cores. The AppleTV does not need them.

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Because it was a different chip and the one on the aTV is already the shrunk version and this is the first time they have shrunk the same chip 3X
Waiting for Amazon Prime added to Apple TV and other streaming apps until than I will wait for the next generation Apple TV, whenever that is.
I want more than that either flixster or vudu streaming at least.
Whats the point in using shrunken chip, and not the new one.
My guess is this chip only makes it harder to jailbreak.

Still waiting jailbreak on my atv3 :(
To test new dies and new size for other chips w/out affecting performance or costs. I assume it would cost more to change the chip size on an iPhone since it needs to pass through a bunch of places before an item gets approved
 
I hate to break it to you but this is probably not a die shrink nor any TSMC stuff.

The package only contains the ARM CPU, not the stacked RAM. That's known since the markings on the package only describes the CPU and not any RAM since there's only writings on two sides, not four (the left and the right is the data for the RAM when available). And the RAM module from Hynix is clearly seen on the mobo.
That would account for the reduced package size. I find it hard to believe that MacRumors actually measured the die size, but just measured the package size.
The previous Apple TV (with the "new" 32nm chip) also had external Hynix RAM and Toshiba NAND. So this new chip is smaller than the previous version, though we still don't really know why.
 
plz

I know this is slightly off topic, but Come on FireCore! Let's make good use of this modest enhancement and get your products working on the AppleTV 3 & AppleTV 3.1 (I"m calling this "new model" 3.1)
 
As does Roku, whose media streamers offer a far better value than the AppleTV right now. IMO the only major selling point of the AppleTV currently is AirPlay.

AirPlay isn't exactly a minor feature, though.

I understand it's not exactly the same, and in some ways highlights why it's goofy they haven't added a store yet, but AirPlay essentially gives the AppleTV access to hundreds of thousands of apps through a connected iDevice?

I mean, you can't play Infinity Blade on a Roku, but you can on an AppleTV with AirPlay. To say nothing of all the streaming apps.
 
OMG this thing is so n00b compared to the XBOX 360 with its tricore 3.0GHz PPC.

In all seriousness, whatever, just give us the App Store and Bluetooth controllers!
 
While I'm fully aware of significance of this accomplishment. It's something only tech enthusiasts understand and appreciate. These are the very people that are accused of prefering Android over the much simpler & basic iOS.

Therefore the point is, it's lost on the mainstream customer who doesn't care about anything other than the Apple logo, and the fact that they want to be seen with an iPhone or iPad.

Meanwhile the die size is not going to help Apples dismal stock performance. This is, after all, a publicly traded business.

Here's something about public perspective on Apple:
http://www.france24.com/en/20130309-googles-star-rises-apple-fades

Well, then, I suppose it is a good thing that I don't own any Apple stock then. ;)
 
I have been considering buying an Apple TV for some time, and indeed was ready to get the credit card out last weekend. Then I reconsidered. I now have a fancy new Panasonic Viera TV that would be suitable for displaying information from the Web. Yet neither Panasonic's nor Apple's stock apps include even a rudimentary browser, locking me into a handful apps that are limited in functionality.

So... I don't give a crap about what CPU the Apple TV is running. I'll only be interested when it is opened up to more apps. Moreover, the stock and free apps available with the Panasonic TV are already greater in number than Apple's offerings (e.g., TuneIn radio app is available for the Viera). It seems to me with a mountain of cash Apple could make the Apple TV less of a hobby and more of a money maker (e.g., if in addition to apps they added a blu-ray/DVD drive as well so I could replace other components and also use my iPhone as a remote).

As with all of these smart TV's, in about a year it will be obsolete. You will likely not get any more updates after that. They are hardly a long term proposition if you are looking to build a library.
 
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Ha, yes. Apple obviously would have to do a much better job. By using a combination of different sensors and software.

Apple has always placed a lot of emphasis on the interface device. Steve talked about it extensively at the first iphone keynote.

Doesn't it seem like an "air mouse" would be crucial? Otherwise a remote app for your iPhone? -You'd have to be looking at your phone instead of the tv. Or a physical keyboard with a track pad on it? -seems too complex for Apple. I guess we won't know what's best without actually trying it, but my money is on air mouse.

Have you used your iOS device as a remote for the ATV? It basically works as a track pad already. It is really easy. Do you look at your track pad when you use it on a laptop? No you look at the screen. Same thing when you use the remote app.
 
I mean, you can't play Infinity Blade on a Roku, but you can on an AppleTV with AirPlay. To say nothing of all the streaming apps.

You also need to factor in the lag introduced by AirPlay, which is significant. You'll never play fast action games, where even one millisec counts, thru AirPlay.

Just some figures: in the Lightning-to-HDMI thread ( https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1550766/ ) here, I've published some benchmarks I've measured on the new Lightning-to-HDMI adapter, the old VGA one and an ATV3 driven thru AirPlay, the first and the last from the iPhone 5. The results of the measured lag are as follows:

- old (non-Lightning) VGA (and HDMI) adapter: 50ms
- new (Lightning) HDMI adapter: 83ms
- AirPlay: 150ms

That is, AirPlay is three times slower than the old and almost two times slower than the new HDMI adapter.

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The article didn't state if the new Apple TV's A5 chip is still single core, or if it's dual core. Anyone?

I think Apple would have advertised / mentioned if it was dual-core so that people know it may be significantly better than the predecessor.
 
I think Apple would have advertised / mentioned if it was dual-core so that people know it may be significantly better than the predecessor.
I guess so. Looking on the website, it still says single core... So I guess it still is ;)

No wonder there's been no official mention of this update, to the consumer it's exactly the same product.
 
Makes sense to test this out on a small volume product. Hopes it goes well, less dependence on samsung can only be a good thing.
 
Not a very useful product, really.

Needs Appstore for iPlayer, 4od, Lovefilm, every other catch-up/streaming service.
 
The previous Apple TV (with the "new" 32nm chip) also had external Hynix RAM and Toshiba NAND. So this new chip is smaller than the previous version, though we still don't really know why.

We kinda do know why though: Moore's Law. Roughly every two years the fabs move to a new process node with smaller feature sizes which effectively doubles the yield from a given wafer size. This allows us to keep price and power usage almost on par with a previous generation while doubling the number of transistors and thus increasing performance, or reduce the die size and make a chip that costs less and uses less power.

Once volume production is ramped up, these new A5's could cost Apple as little as 1/4 of what the original version went for, and they probably draw around 1/3 less power. This is also the first time we've seen Apple contract a chip fabbed at 2x nm, and we know they aren't totally in love with Samsung these days, so they may just be testing a new process from a different foundry with a limited run of a known design.

If you were simply asking what Apple's plans are for a second die-shrink of the A5, well that's a good question. The GPU and memory interface are definitely starting to get a bit dated for any type of new flagship device, so this is clearly targeting something lower cost. However, 6 mm x 6 mm is tiny. We're talking fits in a cable connector tiny. So who knows? Maybe the next iPod nano will be a full blown iOS device.
 
aybe Amazon doesn't want to be on Apple TV so they can sell more Kindles. Apple can't force Amazon to put Prime on AppleTV.

The app is available for the iPad and iPhone, so this doesn't make logical sense.
 
I think this also points to the A5X not being a consideration for future products - there was quite a bit of chatter that Apple using an A5X variant in the AppleTV was an indicator it might surface as the SOC for the retina version of the iPad Mini. I think A5X is done with the iPad 3rd gen, and any new retina based devices will uses an A6/X (or even newer SOC), and the A5 will stick around for low-to-mid-ranged and/or non-retina devices (the iPad Touch being the odd product ...)
 
This is also the first time we've seen Apple contract a chip fabbed at 2x nm, and we know they aren't totally in love with Samsung these days, so they may just be testing a new process from a different foundry with a limited run of a known design.
.

While unhappy it would be little more than risky to go cold turkey and switch 100% production for all products over from Samsung to a new foundry. For Apple's lower priced products it would make more sense for those to be the last to transition out of Samsung. They'd want stable, lower priced component stream.

With AppleTVs relatively low run rate, < 2M per quarter, they could be still be getting useful product while the Samsung fab ramps up to full mass production. Even if the yields are not up full productions rates it isn't like Apple is reducing the price of AppleTV. They can still pay the "old" price for these smaller chips for a while and take no loss in margin at all. Once yields mature around Q4 they'll be printing extra money off of AppleTVs sold (margin up).

There are probably more 28nm A5's coming for stuff like iPod Touch for at least the lowest priced variant. There is a good chance they will use A5 for all of them and move the prices down a notch.
 
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I think this also points to the A5X not being a consideration for future products -

The A5X is not necessary if just move to the next generation of Imagination's graphics. To some extent it is a kludge because needed something faster before that next gen was ready. At this point it would make more sense to transition to the next gen than to spend alot of time trying to shrink the A5X.

The series 6 is being demo'ed at this point.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/...eries-6-series-5xt-mobile-gpu-demo/#continued

It shouldn't be too far away. By late Q3 or early Q4 there should be Series6 GPU in at least one product.

P.S. On that Engadget story is that newer faster OpenGL drivers due for 543mp2 that are in A5. So yet another reason can simply transition to less expensive A5's but still have "faster" new product.
 
36/(8.19*8.68) = 0.506 Actually, it's roughly 50% of the area of the 'old' A5. I don't know how semiconductors work, but with all other things being equal, wouldn't a 50% reduction in die area mean a bigger jump than just 32 to 28nm?
article said:
The original A5 chip introduced in 2011 for the iPad 2 was built on a 45-nanometer process, measuring 10.09 mm by 12.15 mm, while the first die-shrunk A5 introduced in 2012 for the third-generation Apple TV and the tweaked iPad 2 measured 41% smaller at 8.19 mm by 8.68 mm. This new A5 found in the tweaked third-generation Apple TV is considerably smaller still, with our measurements putting the chip at just 6 mm by 6 mm.

2011 iPad2 45nm 10.09 x 12.15 mm (122.50 mm^2)
2012 iPad2 32nm 8.19 x 8.68 mm (71.09 mm^2) delta 51.41 or 42.0% less
2013 AppleTV3 28nm 6.0 x 6.0 mm (36.0 mm^2) delta 35.09 or 49.4% less
122.5, 36.0 delta 86.5 or 70.6% less
36/122.5mm=29.4% of the original area. Between a quarter and a third the area.

Rocketman
 
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