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You're responding to my point Elon being a great businessman.

So I guess all your points were really in agreement with me? If not, I really don't understand your stance.

No, I was making the point that Tesla's strong quarters were largely due to the significant price cuts, additional discounts, models potentially qualifying for $7,500 federal tax credits again, etc.

Additionally that Tesla operates as both the manufacturer and the dealer so comparing margins against other automakers isn't necessarily apples to apples.
 
No, I was making the point that Tesla's strong quarters were largely due to the significant price cuts, additional discounts, models potentially qualifying for $7,500 federal tax credits again, etc.

Additionally that Tesla operates as both the manufacturer and the dealer so comparing margins against other automakers isn't necessarily apples to apples.

What about all the strong quarters before the price cuts and the new tax credits?

Operating both manufacturer and dealer is a good business decision. So how does that play into your stance of Elon isn't a good businessman?
 
It's like trying to rename Jack the Ripper to Jack the Nice Guy and expecting everyone to embrace the new and improved Jack. It's still a hellscape of hate speech no matter what they want to call it.
Sounds like people who want nothing to do with Twitter keep wanting to talk about Twitter.
 
No, we're discussing the purpose of Tesla. 🤦‍♂️

Every now and then it's worth looking at the title bar of your browser. You're discussing the purpose of Tesla. The thread is about one of the many dumb things Musk has done.

- Free updates prove Tesla isn't "maximizing profits" as you suggested.

Yeah, because that's how business works... Every time you see "buy one get one free", you know the business responsible has refiled with the SEC to become a charity.
 
So what you're saying is going from something truly unique, like the name Twitter to something entirely not unique, like the letter X.

Yet, companies continue to pursue the letter X despite being so common.

Guess who owns x.com? 🤣
 
everyone slowing down as they pass by to stare at one of the biggest train wrecks in business history.

1690304768007.jpeg
 
Suddenly everyone who bailed on Twitter to Threads care about the name change.
Sometimes people feel like a company can be part of their personal life, and Twitter has been like that.

Many of those people bailed on twitter because it hurt to see how one delusional man could screw up something that was such a big part of their life.

So complaining about the name change is realizing the continued pain a single person could make, all while ruining something that they felt played such a large part in their life.
 
I don't care, it was a long time ago former Twitter / now X, was interesting to me.
Long before Musk bought it.
Fortunately I have better things to do with my time and mind, especially since this guy took over it.
Haven’t missed it a minute.
I rather pick up the old X-files, then going back to the x-bird.
 
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What about all the strong quarters before the price cuts and the new tax credits?

Operating both manufacturer and dealer is a good business decision. So how does that play into your stance of Elon isn't a good businessman?

Holy crap, you're bordering on absurd with this. You say Elon is a good businessman, but you say that his companies aren't interesting in maximizing profits. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. You cannot be one without the other.
The problem is that you're trying to internally rationalize your fanboy perception of Musk (genius who can do no wrong) with all of the idiotic crap he does. And the only way to do that is to somehow pretend that the idiotic crap he does is intentional-- to the point where you're willing to argue that he's such a good businessman, that when he makes business decisions that make less money than alternative decisions, he did so INTENTIONALLY, and it's actually OK. o_O
 
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Holy crap, you're bordering on absurd with this. You say Elon is a good businessman, but you say that his companies aren't interesting in maximizing profits. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. You cannot be one without the other.
The problem is that you're trying to internally rationalize your fanboy perception of Musk (genius who can do no wrong) with all of the idiotic crap he does. And the only way to do that is to somehow pretend that the idiotic crap he does is intentional-- to the point where you're willing to argue that he's such a good businessman, that when he makes business decisions that make less money than alternative decisions, he did so INTENTIONALLY, and it's actually OK. o_O

Tell me how the richest person in the world is not "a good businessman" https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianb...tle-of-worlds-richest-person/?sh=53867d6555c4. Must be all the "idiotic crap he does". 🤣

He intentionally opened up the Superchargers which was a moat around Tesla car sales. Superchargers isn't even going to bring nearly enough profit than just keeping the moat and selling more cars. You can't argue that because it's factually not a profit maximizing move. There's no possible way you can spin this.

Notice how you didn't even answer the question "What about all the strong quarters before the price cuts and the new tax credits?"?

Sounds like you don't have an answer but went off topic instead. Have a good one. 👋
 
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He intentionally opened up the Superchargers which was a moat around Tesla car sales. Superchargers isn't even going to bring nearly enough profit than just keeping the moat and selling more cars. You can't argue that because it's factually not a profit maximizing move. There's no possible way you can spin this.

You know how Apple started focusing on services, to the point where you can watch AppleTV+ on a Samsung TV? At some point, the services revenue going forward becomes more profitable than straight hardware. Look at Superchargers as a services business, one which Tesla is going to control. It drives more revenue to Tesla. It's not all about car sales. Your argument only makes sense if Tesla is providing charging for free, which it's not.

any day now

can't wait for the 2024 comments: "now FOR SURE the platform is going to die"

and then again in 2025 🤣

Ever heard of Myspace.com? That one seemed invincible, too...
 
What about all the strong quarters before the price cuts and the new tax credits?

What about them? Tesla has continued to be in a growth/expansion phase and has been strictly focusing on the EV market. However, Tesla's EV market share has been declining and that decline will accelerate as the rest of the industry shifts more and more to EVs and Tesla’s "honeymoon period" comes to an end.


Operating both manufacturer and dealer is a good business decision. So how does that play into your stance of Elon isn't a good businessman?

It's still too early to tell how good of a business decision it was. Musk has stated in the past that Tesla may eventually need to go to some sort of hybrid manufacturer/franchised dealer hybrid system. With markups, price cuts, discounts, sales promotions, differing prices, added fees, increasing in store inventories, etc. Tesla has been becoming more and more like a traditional dealer over the years anyway.
 
What about them?

Your argument for the current quarter is that they were saved by price cuts and tax credits. Previous quarters in 2022 didn't have any of those. Even the carbon credits didn't make up the majority of the profits anymore.

Now you're making the argument that they're in a growth phase so are you really saying any quarter doesn't count no matter how well they do?

However, Tesla's EV market share has been declining and that decline will accelerate as the rest of the industry shifts more and more to EVs and Tesla’s "honeymoon period" comes to an end.

That marketshare argument is hilarious. Let's do some math.

If you outsold the entire competition cumulatively, you have >50% marketshare. Make sense, right? If you want to maintain 67% of marketshare, you have to outsell all of your competition cumulatively by 2:1. If you want to maintain 75% marketshare, you'd have to outsell 3:1 against all of your competitors. 80% marketshare, 4:1. 83% marketshare, 5:1. See where I'm getting at?

So if Tesla had 67% marketshare and Ford adds 100k capacity/quarter, Tesla would need to add 200k capacity/quarter for every 100k Ford adds just to maintain 67% marketshare. But then, say GM also added 100k capacity quarter at the same time. This means Tesla would need an additional 400k capacity/quarter to maintain 67% marketshare. That means if Ford and GM built 1 factory each, Tesla would need to build 4 factories in the same amount of time. The higher the marketshare you have, the higher the multiple needs to be to maintain the marketshare.

Declining marketshare is to be expected when Tesla had 70+% marketshare in USA IIRC. To say that Tesla is losing their 70% marketshare and therefore Tesla is in trouble is ridiculous.

The target marketshare Tesla wants IIRC is 10%-15% of all cars in the world. Short term goal would be 20 million / year by 2030.

It's still too early to tell how good of a business decision it was. Musk has stated in the past that Tesla may eventually need to go to some sort of hybrid manufacturer/franchised dealer hybrid system. With markups, price cuts, discounts, sales promotions, differing prices, added fees, increasing in store inventories, etc. Tesla has been becoming more and more like a traditional dealer over the years anyway.

i dont recall musk ever saying that. i recall musk saying they need to educate the customers more through traditional ads but not a dealership model.

edit: looks like he said it 2014 https://cleantechnica.com/2014/10/19/tesla-going-way-franchise-dealerships-elon-musk-hints-yes/

turns out they didn't go that route. there's no indication that they are still looking into this model when in fact they're going even more vertical with Tesla insurance, producing their own batteries, designing their own HD radar and inference chips, designing and building their own supercomputers, refining their own lithium, and continuing to fight dealership laws.
 
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The target marketshare Tesla wants IIRC is 10%-15% of all cars in the world. Short term goal would be 20 million / year by 2030.

Now you see why Tesla is so overvalued... Toyota has a market share of somewhere around 11%, selling 8-10M cars a year and a market cap of $225B. Volkswagen has a market share of somewhere around 7% and a market cap of $84B.

Hard to square Tesla's goals with a $900B valuation.

i recall musk saying they need to educate the customers more through traditional ads

Yeah, those kind of marketing pivots tend to happen when your non-traditional spokesperson sullies the brand...
 
I've loved Twitter as a platform since 2009 when I first started using it. However the recent decline of the company in general and the services and functions specifically I've been more and more looking into Mastodon. Depending on what server you choose on Mast it's been a (for me) very pleasant stay so far.

The only sad thing is loosing 7k followers built up over all thise years on Twitter to restart somewhere else. Still got the Twitter account but use it less and less because I am having a better time on Mastodon.

All these impulsive changes E.M forces onto the platform makes it hard to keep up and enjoy the ride, so to speak.
 
He very well could've launched an app called X and have it include Twitter inside it, much like Facebook on iOS included a Messenger tab for quite some time and, I'm guessing, WeChat also includes all sorts of stuff with dedicated names according to their function inside. Or keep them as separate apps, but have them integrate tightly with one another, like Microsoft's Office 365 suite, Google Apps, etc. What a complete idiot. 🤦‍♂️
I wouldn't go so far as to call Musk a complete idiot, but you're right that he could have kept the Twitter brand and marks alive even alongside "X," and benefitted from that established brand value and goodwill in the process.

Personally, and even though I find "X" fairly pedestrian and boring as a brand name, that won't be my reason for leaving Twitter. My reason is that I don't want an "everything" app, as there is already too much consolidation and information-sharing out there, and if I were to entrust my payments and social media to the same company, it wouldn't be one run by Elon Musk.
 
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