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U.S. Antitrust Legislation Would Require Users to Be Able to Delete All Pre-Installed Apple Apps [Updated]
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On that note...isn't Settings technically an App? So, literally stripping out a way to setup your phone?
I know I'm bordering on ridiculous here, however, this is just one example of why this bill won't pass....not with its current ideology anyway. The legal language defining what is and is not an app, among probably some other gray areas, will be nightmarish.
Wow, reality is a really long way away for you. You know there is some middle ground between the two extremes of Apple monopoly and the wild Wild West.
Oh, don’t pretend.
From your prior statement, you KNOW what the differences are.But, feel free to just call the truth “silly”
Sorry for the confusion. I'm not saying Epic and Pandora are anti-profits. I'm explaining motives for these regulations. Not everyone in Congress is anti-capitalism, but some are (most notably Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders, among others), and this is one motive for pushing for regulation. I listed other motives, as well.
Not everything needs to be decided by government. You mentioned how Facebook, TikTok, and others have been good for Apple. Likewise, Apple has been good for them. Let them work it out themselves. Private negotiations—between individuals, between companies, and between individuals and companies—happen millions of times per day. Even competitors cooperate, and this is how things get done. Apple buys screens and other components from Samsung, a competitor. This cooperation, along with cooperation with other suppliers, results in amazing devices in our pockets that we all appreciate.
Epic, as one example, had a good deal going with the App Store. They made a lot of money from it (and a lot of money outside of it). They just wanted a better deal, and they looked to the courts and Congress to force Apple to give them a better deal. That doesn't have to happen.
Likewise, I'm happy with the deal Apple gives me as a customer. This is evident from the fact that I am, in fact, a customer. I don't have to buy anything from Apple; I chose to. Would I like it better if Apple charged me less for my next iPhone? Of course I would. Heck, I'd be even more pleased if they gave it to me for free. But I'm still satisfied with the deal they offer, and I don't go whining to Congress because I want to pay less.
That's what Epic and others are doing: whining to Congress because they want to pay less. And Congress will listen to lobbyists from companies like Epic, while they'd ignore you and me.
So if you really think that these laws are proposed because customers are complaining about the free apps their phones come with, and not from companies with much deeper pockets than we have, can you do me a favor? Can you find one customer who has written their congressperson with such a complaint?
Democracy has its place, but it doesn't need to decide everything. Individuals are capable of deciding for themselves; they don't need bureaucrats and politicians deciding what's best for them.
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So a phone manufacturer simply becomes a hardware seller and cannot make an OS and include services and apps? Manufacturers can't decide to make the whole widget to differentiate in a competitive market? iOS with 24% world market is somehow a monopoly, and doesn't compete with Android? Even if a duopoly is bad, didn't it come into being because Windows phone, Nokia Symbian and Blackberry failed? Apple became a winner in a competitive market not because of abuse of power, but because it differentiated itself through making the whole widget and give the consumer a whole experience. And now what once was fair when competition was plenty has suddenly become bad practice? Does every OS has to be open now? Every hardware platform has to be open? No closed Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo system. Or only open because Apple makes so much money while having a mere 24% worldwide market share? Is that Apple's fault that other manufacturers make so little money? Also, no more MacOS tied to closed hardware, because that has to be licensed eventually it seems. Strange that because competition has dried up, every practice that once was fair is now considered monopolistic or not consumer friendly. But in an open market, new players can come in and take on market share. Windows phone could come in again, and become competition to Apple. And when that happens, Apple's whole widget practice would then be considered fair again.
Fanbois cant see what Apple is doing and others BIG tech companies to competition
I'd imagine it'd be part of the install process. Right now we have a screen to opt in to data analysis/sharing. It'd probably be a screen that says "Now select which {default} App you want". Including options to select a store.
I don't want it. It's going to be a ****** experience.
Probably anything that comes preinstalled on the device. This doesn't sound targeted explicitly at Apple, it's targeted at companies who are above $600B in market cap and have 50M active monthly users in the US. The law would likely be worded to be generic, saying things like "there shall be no apps which are not manually selected by the end user included on the device prior to set up." Which would include first party apps as well as third party apps like Facebook being pre-installed on any device.
No one is going to write a law that explicitly names Samsung, Google, Apple, and Microsoft here. What happens if New Phone Brand starts dominating and pulling the same tactics these companies are doing now? How fast do you think that law will be written to include that company name? Not very fast, because it'll have to go through these same steps. Apple, Google, etc will likely lobby to have the law changed since it's being amended. New Phone Brand will probably try and drag out the process.
By keeping it generic and assigning qualifications like 600B Market Cap and 50M Monthly users in the US, the law includes any company that meets the criteria in the future without having to rewrite and pass the law again.
But we'll allow bloat apps to be installed, in fact all iPhones will have the carrier apps cooked into iOS without ability to uninstall.
The last time I had checked, when you delete a stock iOS app (like stupid Tips) it didn't actually remove it from the device. You were able to prove that it just removed the springboard access by successfully re-installing the app in Airplane mode. However I just tried this with Tips and it didn't work, said it was unable to install.
The last time I had checked, when you delete a stock iOS app (like stupid Tips) it didn't actually remove it from the device. You were able to prove that it just removed the springboard access by successfully re-installing the app in Airplane mode. However I just tried this with Tips and it didn't work, said it was unable to install.
I understand "what" this legislation is talking about... but I'm having trouble understanding the "why"
Why shouldn't Apple be allowed to include their own software in their own operating system on their own hardware?
So if somehow this legislation passes... Apple can't include their contacts app on their phone because some guy wrote a contacts app in his basement. Or a calculator app, or a compass app. It's not "fair" to the little guys because Apple has market dominance to push their own apps.
Am I hearing this right?
Why shouldn't Apple be allowed to include their own software in their own operating system on their own hardware?
So if somehow this legislation passes... Apple can't include their contacts app on their phone because some guy wrote a contacts app in his basement. Or a calculator app, or a compass app. It's not "fair" to the little guys because Apple has market dominance to push their own apps.
Am I hearing this right?
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I disagree with your statement. However, I do agree with you on the whole dislike downvote system. People rarely say why.
Now, it’s not Apple or Google’s fault there is a duopoly. How about, instead of forcing this weird regulation which WONT fix the duopoly issue, they come up with incentives for a third company to compete.
Agreed.
Or maybe Congress should focus on other issues that actually affect people... like broadband legislation.
Let's give everyone in the country the opportunity to have a decent internet connection... instead of worrying about the calendar app that is included on a phone.
What prior statement did I make outlining the differences? Last I checked I only saw and mentioned similarities. So what are the differences, because I don't know.Oh, don’t pretend.
But, feel free to just call the truth “silly”
What incentives could the government offer to get others to compete? It would also take immense resources that only a handful of companies even have the ability to muster. Even if others try, they're already way behind in a well-established market at this point. MS couldn't do it. Blackberry couldn't do it. And that was when the market was even less mature than it is now.
It could mean that Microsoft can't ship with Windows Explorer, Edge, Notepad, Windows Defender.
Or what about supporting native PDF files? That would compete with Acrobat Reader.
So if a device contains 30 applications by default, you would have to make 30 choices before getting started?
Think about this on Macs and Windows machines. Or even game consoles.
The device will start with almost no icons since there are no apps which doesn't have an alternative the App Store.
Think about non-expert people starting with a blank phone. My mother at 68 would be completely lost with no browser, no SMS client, no app to take pictures etc. She doesn't know how to download an app!
So what do you do if there are hundreds competing apps? I mean, this is a law that might be on the books for decades.
I just searched for browser in the Norwegian store and I stopped after 20. Should the iPhone has tens of browsers installed by the default and all users must choose between them?
It is the same with notes-app or payment apps.
Sure I can teach him how to use the phone with the apps installed, do you think someone like an older person would have a clue to go to the app store to find the apps they need? Give me a break!
I’m sorry, do you use Windows? Edge is still pre-installed with Windows 10 today.
useless to install apps never been used - rather better letting the customer choose from the beginning. Also, many apps cant be deleted.