U.S. Government Calls Apple's Opposition to iPhone Unlocking Order a 'Diversion,' Says Fears Are 'Overblown'

[WissMAN]

Someone said: "Apple is not the Governments tech support..."

I agree with that. Pretty much sums it up.

 

[steiney]

It's a complicated topic for sure.

The FBI are correct on two accounts; Apple are turning the issue into hyperbole (with regards to the technical consequences) in order to protect their brand, and that it is possible to create this software for just one device with no questions asked. One time usage, then it literally self-destructs.

The other side of the argument is the precedent, and that's something that I feel Apple should be doing more to protect. If they did, the ball would be in the FBI's court and they would have to explain their position in future cases such as this. My guess is that they would try and wriggle out of it...

Who knows what will happen?

If the FBI gets it done for this one phone, the next day you'll have every phone in the country that a cop get a wild hair about being searched. The gate is either open or shut. Police have no ability to limit/throttle the power they are given. They will use it on every single phone they get in their possession.

The silly thing is, people who care about encryption, criminal and non-criminal alike, will just start running their own non-native encryption on their mobile devices anyway. So, the government will have to make encryption illegal in order to accomplish their goal in the end. This is either going to be a quick, short and easy ride or a long and painful one, but I'm bucked up and ready!

 

[ArmCortexA8]

Despite being in Australia, I'm with Apple. Judge Napolitano said the FBI's request for Apple to basically hack their own phone is a Criminal Offence under the US Constitution and it's illegal for a Court to order this. Judge Nepolitano says hacking is a felony and the Federal Judge's cannot order you to break the law. There is no grey area here and its not ambiguous. the Judge also said to force Apple to do something against its will, at it's own expense is prohibited by the US Constitution.

The FBI really stuffed themselves by trying to reset the iCloud password as well. View:

 

[Tech198]

The FBI can do this...

lets see...

(1 they change icloud password
(2 *then* they go to Apple

Allot of things the FBI are "doing wrong" it seems before going to Apple and winging. Doesn't sound very professional to me. And how long have they been able to crack stuff ?

The FBI only wants to go to Apple because they can "quickly" go in the back door. and make a stir in the media.. AES 256 can be cracked...just not by the "traditional" methods. wouldn't u wanna allow a criminal enter then than breaking in ?

 

[Jess13]

It’s even worse when you understand that the San Bernardino shooting (and this FBI vs. Apple problem) would likely never have happened, if President Obama hadn’t been: a) committing treason by concealing the 28 pages, after promising 9/11 family members to their faces he would declassify them; and b) then committing treason by helping arm al-Qaeda with the same al-Qaeda Saudis who financed the 9/11 hijackers and are blamed in the 28 pages. “War on Terror”? FBI arrest Obama:

U.S. Relies Heavily on Saudi Money to Support Syrian Rebels

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/w...-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html

The Saudi efforts were led by the flamboyant Prince Bandar bin Sultan, at the time the intelligence chief, who directed Saudi spies to buy thousands of AK-47s and millions of rounds of ammunition in Eastern Europe for the Syrian rebels. The C.I.A. helped arrange some of the arms purchases for the Saudis, including a large deal in Croatia in 2012.

Months later, Mr. Obama gave his approval for the C.I.A. to begin directly arming and training the rebels from a base in Jordan, amending the Timber Sycamore program to allow lethal assistance. Under the new arrangement, the C.I.A. took the lead in training, while Saudi Arabia’s intelligence agency, the General Intelligence Directorate, provided money and weapons, including TOW anti-tank missiles.

(Note: Prince “Bandar Bush” bin Sultan’s named by former Sen. Bob Graham in his 2004 book Intelligence Matters (so therefor in the 28 pages) as financing 9/11 hijackers while in the U.S.)​

One of the leading 9/11 family members Obama promised to her face he would declassify the 28 pages, recently had this to say on FBI vs. Apple, the 28 pages and San Bernardino shooting:

Government Hypocrisy Rears Its Ugly Head. Again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/krist...risy-rears-its-ugly-head-again_b_9264866.html

With all the outrage in Washington on both sides of the aisle regarding Apple CEO Tim Cook's failure to create backdoor access to Syed Rizwan Farook's iPhone, I am wondering why there is not the same outrage for the U.S. government to release the 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry of Congress that deals with the foreign sponsorship of the 9/11 attacks. (See pages 395-422.)

Why isn't the release of information regarding the 9/11 attacks so equally and passionately sought after?

The 28 pages are the classified pages of the Joint Inquiry of Congress's Final Report that allegedly contain information regarding the foreign financing of the 9/11 attacks. For nearly 15 years, these classified 28 pages have been kept secret, thereby preventing us from holding these foreign nations accountable for funding the 9/11 attacks.

The 9/11 victims' families have begged, pleaded and argued for access to these 28 pages. We have held press conferences. We have pushed for legislation. We have been solemnly promised by President Barack Obama that he would declassify these pages and give the U.S. federal courts access to this vital information.

Yet, the 28 pages remain classified -- which is why I find our government's current swoon over access to Farook's iPhone so absolutely hypocritical.

Truthfully, had the 28 pages been accessed years ago, terror funding might have dramatically decreased and it's possible Farook might not have even been radicalized, nor able to carryout the San Bernadino attacks that killed 14 people.​

Obama caused San Bernardino. Thankfully Apple is fighting. The USG is so ridiculous.

At 7:43: “He broke his promise”

At 10:28: “President Obama, you hear us!”

 

[jonnysods]

Of course they do. Anything to minimize the massiveness of what they are asking.

Seriously, can't one of their lab nerds just crack open this phone and get its juicy insides without forcing the biggest company in the world to create a vulnerability for every one of their customers?

I just watched V for Vendetta again the other day. This is like the unseen first steps of that society.

 

[dk001]

It's a complicated topic for sure.

The FBI are correct on two accounts; Apple are turning the issue into hyperbole (with regards to the technical consequences) in order to protect their brand, and that it is possible to create this software for just one device with no questions asked. One time usage, then it literally self-destructs.

The other side of the argument is the precedent, and that's something that I feel Apple should be doing more to protect. If they did, the ball would be in the FBI's court and they would have to explain their position in future cases such as this. My guess is that they would try and wriggle out of it...

Who knows what will happen?

Missing a point - in the history of the AWA, no company has been conscripted by the government to design and build something they currently do not have nor perform as part of their normal business tasks. Matter of fact we have an Amendment that says they can't do that. Fifth.

 

[Rocketman]

Bruce Sewell.

Correct.

 

[dk001]

Also it is not just going to be Apple that is affected by a precedent being set. All tech companies will be exposed to this precedent. DOJ will be knocking on other tech companies saying "we need information and you have to do it because if Apple can and has to do it, so do you"

Exactly. My Note 5 has basically the same encryption road blocks on it as my 6S+. They are both fully encrypted and I hold the keys. Not Apple. Not Google. Me.

 

[oplix]

This is just a real life re-enactment of the Dark Knight where Bruce Wayne uses everyone's cell phone as a means to find a terrorist.

 

[ActionableMango]

Where those laws passed by Congress? What Apple is being asked to do isn't coming from Congress.

Local Number Portability was passed by Congress. The other two were mandates by the FCC.

 

[sir1963nz]

Actually, they do not need to write it so it will run on multiple devices - they can write multiple instances for the multiple test devices and sign each independently, then once proof of concept is validated write the specific instance for the subject device and sign that.

Yeah, no.
The code of all phones running a particular version of IOS is the same. No phone is unique except they have a different UUID and different secure enclave ID.Apart from that they are all the same and the same code works on all of them, none of them have special code to allow for those differences.

ANY software written will ultimately work on any phone. If the FBI get the phone they will be looking for the code the uniquely identifies the device and bypass it. This is after all the same technique software pirates use to bypass the serial number activation in software.

Your government is lying to you. If the FBI wins, the US becomes no more trustworthy than China. ALL US technology will have to be bought assuming that there is now a CIA/NSA backdoor installed.

I am holding off upgrading any of my gear at home and at work, if the FBI wins, its a non US distort of Linux running on non US hardware. Automatic updates will be blocked on all US hardware. And where is comes to non critical stuff, well we will probably buy Chinese with the assumed risk being the same as for US equipment, the cost being cheaper for Chinese.

An FBI win will be the biggest win for India, China, Japan, the EU, Korea that could ever happen, especially if they are willing to open up their code and have audited hardware so exclude spyware. The US is going to loose a massive amount of its technological advantages as it will have to show and tell just to remain in the game.

 

[k1121j]

Well said apple team

 

[Keirasplace]

Where those laws passed by Congress? What Apple is being asked to do isn't coming from Congress.

Also, they weren't essentially asking to f*up their software/hardware; yes, that's what their asking, for everyone to comply.
That's a major difference here.
Everyone loses something to have one small part of its potential clientele served; is it a good tradeoff?

 

[sir1963nz]

An even MORE SERIOUS question.

For the purpose of this question, let's assume that Apple loses the case and is forced to provide a back door. Yes, it is a back door, don't try to mess with me on this.

Now what happens when a former employee uses that back door to share US strategic secrets with any badguys, foreign or domestic?

Or maybe they'll just post online the personal information of say, everybody being treated at one particular drug rehab clinic, or maybe a health clinic that specializes in treating for mental health or HIV?

Apple needs to say no, even if there are penalties forthcoming.
[doublepost=1457656021][/doublepost]How will that change anything? It's not THEIR money, it's mine!


TL;DR. The point is that the government doesn't have the right to do this, and the government should have prevented the SB terrorists from even gaining entry into the US. This is the fault of the President and both houses of Congress. That's how simple this is.

So, its simple, so explain exactly how it can be done ?
Will this impact the $960 Billion dollars the US earns from overseas Tourists ?
Will this impact foreign trade ?
Will this impact US citizens wanting to travel outside the USA (retaliatory action by other governments)
Will this impact US healthcare.

Just how many millions are you going to put out of work, how many hundreds of billions in trade, taxes etc is your "simple" going to cost ?

 

[sehix]

What if this backdoor or "key" was developed to only work if the physical phone had to be physically plugged in to the decryption tool? That way a warrant would have to be sought and issued, and executed instead of anyone just accessing your phone over the air?

The problem here being that the phone isn't going to listen to attempts to load new software on it to defeat the password guess block. It's been too long since it was last updated, or had a connection to the 'net, and it won't connect to update without someone entering its AppleID password, which you can't do without unlocking the phone from the keypad...

 

[apolloa]

I'm getting nervous that my government is getting paranoid delusional.

haha oh the irony with this comment is palpable...

 

[Macyourdayy]

This is actually starting to become scary. Sad that a country like the US wants this sort of power.

Not just the U.S. unfortunately. The Brits, Frogs, no doubt Australia, and then the ones that don't even pretend to be democratic, are all lining up and/or are preparing their own own attacks on Apple as this appears to be an easy, populist game to pick on a non conformist company and fire up the ignorant with the usual lies and spooky stories about reds under the bed.
Why is only Apple being attacked on all fronts here though? Don't other vendors have secure devices? Is this being orchestrated with the help of certain South Koreans? It's just weird. I know governments have wanted this big brother ability for ever, but why now and why just Apple?
[doublepost=1457660697][/doublepost]

The problem here being that the phone isn't going to listen to attempts to load new software on it to defeat the password guess block. It's been too long since it was last updated, or had a connection to the 'net, and it won't connect to update without someone entering its AppleID password, which you can't do without unlocking the phone from the keypad...

It's all very convenient. The "law" can't even keep their stories straight, or the sociopathic smirk off their ugly mugs.

 

[duffman9000]

Not just the U.S. unfortunately. The Brits, Frogs, no doubt Australia, and then the ones that don't even pretend to be democratic, are all lining up and/or are preparing their own own attacks on Apple as this appears to be an easy, populist game to pick on a non conformist company and fire up the ignorant with the usual lies and spooky stories about reds under the bed.
Why is only Apple being attacked on all fronts here though? Don't other vendors have secure devices? Is this being orchestrated with the help of certain South Koreans? It's just weird. I know governments have wanted this big brother ability for ever, but why now and why just Apple?
[doublepost=1457660697][/doublepost]
It's all very convenient. The "law" can't even keep their stories straight, or the sociopathic smirk off their ugly mugs.

If the government can slay Apple then everyone else are easy pickings. I hope Apple goes after the government publically every day until the government cries for help. Don't start nothing there won't be nothing.

 

[tripmusic]

The FBI using a staged psyop shooting to get their foot in Apple's back door. Just an excuse for the government and law enforcement to have absolute power and control over it's citizens

 

[Glideslope]

Bruce Sewell.

Correct.

Bruce will make Comey look like the Keystone Cop that he is in the end.

 

[CFreymarc]

So serious question if Apple is forced to do this: What happens when their own employees don't want to be on the feature team for this? Apple is going to have a hard time finding iOS engineers that are going to willingly corrode the security of the platform.

You have that right. Just trying to identify people in Apple via S&D would be tough to find who can and who cannot do the actual work here.

I'm subscribing to Snowden on this one. He says this is just an "ideal incident" that the Feds have been looking for to break hard encryption via court order.

 

[dk001]

Can someone explain how exactly will they be able to load such a firmware on the phone if it is locked? I heard something about background updating but I though you always needed to unlock the iPhone to accept an update.

Also Apple could create a firmware which has checks in it that only runs on that particular iPhone using UDID for example. Once they sign the firmware nobody can modify this check for use on another device otherwise people like FBI and other hackers would have already used this method to create their own hacked firmwares based on the current stock ones. In other worlds - if someone can modify this hypothetical firmware they may be compelled to create in order to use on any iPhone, then they already have the technology to hack existing firmwares.

Just like so many and you only read the headlines.
Apple already said they could do this.
The FBI said it would set a precedent and there are many devices in queue awaiting the "hack".
Go read the original writ/warrant see how the FBI want to be able to access... not just cable.
This will be challenged in court as chain of evidence and qualifications - want to bet that gets out?
"hack" the password today, ask for the camera / microphone / remote access tomorrow.
Apple is being forced by conscription to build something it doesn't have or do.

and on and on and on and on...

This is less about privacy than loss of civic rights.
Want to guess who's next? Android. Windows. Facebook. etc....
[doublepost=1457663943][/doublepost]

Obama...is there anything his administration won't do?

Yes. What it is supposed to do. And it isn't.

 

[felt.]

imagine Apple asking a court if the FBI could be trusted "because there is this real question about whether J. Edgar Hoover ordered the assassination of Kennedy — see ConspiracyTheory.com as our supporting evidence."

Everyone should beware because it seems like disagreeing with the Department of Justice means you must be evil and anti-American.

 

[dk001]

They won't be forced to do it. The Government cannot force a private company to create something that doesn't exist. That is slavery.

It's called conscription and we are currently, supposedly, protected from it by the government under the Fifth Amendment.
[doublepost=1457664345][/doublepost]

Are you kidding? They do that all the time. When I worked at AT&T the government passed all sorts of regulation for features that didn't exist, and we had to build them. Enhanced 9-1-1, Local Number Portability, Wireless Emergency Alerts, etc. And yes, probably some stuff for the FBI or NSA too, but I wouldn't know about that.

They had legislation to back up the requests.
That what Apple is asking for; decision by legislation not by judiciary.