U.S. Mac Sales Grow 28.5% in Holiday Quarter, PC Market Suffers Worst Decline Ever [Updated]

[Digital Skunk]

I still say you are in the less than 50% usage. I dont have actual numbers though. I just meant more people are starting to use cloud features like dropbox, Box, SkyDrive, etc.

Yes, and there are many that I work with that agree with sseaton. They want to keep things secure and close to them. Then I recommend they back their files up locally and remotely and they start to have a change of heart when they look at the price of HDDs.

Or, they start having heartattacks when I help them through setting up backups for NTFS and HFS+ systems.

All-in-all, it's just easier for the layman to back their stuff up and keep them safe with companies that can handle that stuff. There will always be those that don't buy into it. Hell, my pops still has floppy disks lying around . . . . not the 3.5" diskettes . . . . . floppy disks.

 

[AustinIllini]

The big question here is this:

What in the hell are Dell and Lenovo doing that HP, Toshiba and the others are not doing? How are Dell and Lenovo still in positive YoY growth? That secret I think everyone needs to know so they know how to overcome it and sell more of their own products. Apple too, they need to get Dell and Lenovo into the negative territory.

Making better machines (particularly in Lenovo's case).

 

[sseaton1971]

When I mention clouds, I only mean storing files remotely on something other than the client system.

I agree... but when people discuss "the cloud" here, they are usually not refering to a set up like what you and I have. They are refering to services from companies like Apple, Dropbox, Google, etc. They are also not thinking of their home Airport Time Capsule (and similar devices) as "the cloud".

 

[Digital Skunk]

I agree... but when people discuss "the cloud" here, they are usually not refering to a set up like what you and I have. They are refering to services from companies like Apple, Dropbox, Google, etc. They are also not thinking of their home Airport Time Capsule (and similar devices) as "the cloud".

Oh yes, and that's were I really need to clarify things. I tend to get excited and run off at the mouth and forget that I may be in left field.

Making better machines (particularly in Lenovo's case).

I've been saying for almost a decade how I'd love to get OSX on some of the higher end and more robust systems from Dell and HP. I think Lenovo's laptops are the best in game in terms of PCs. They don't make any high end 17" mobile workstations, but even I am starting to hate the idea of lugging around a 10 lb. laptop.

 

[Boston007]

Yes, and there are many that I work with that agree with sseaton. They want to keep things secure and close to them. Then I recommend they back their files up locally and remotely and they start to have a change of heart when they look at the price of HDDs.

Or, they start having heartattacks when I help them through setting up backups for NTFS and HFS+ systems.

All-in-all, it's just easier for the layman to back their stuff up and keep them safe with companies that can handle that stuff. There will always be those that don't buy into it. Hell, my pops still has floppy disks lying around . . . . not the 3.5" diskettes . . . . . floppy disks.

Oh, I agree that people are using cloud services... and so am I. I am just saying that most people still have files on their desktops/laptops, even though those files might be synced to some of the services you mentioned. And most processing is still done locally. Sure, there are exceptions, but the vast majority of desktop/laptop users rely heavily on their system's reources.

There definitely is a movement towards more "cloud" computing, I will grant you that.

Agree with both of you.

Making better machines (particularly in Lenovo's case).

I was going to say, Lenovo makes solid machines, especially the laptops. They just came out with a new thinbook that is REALLY nice.

 

[TheHateMachine]

This thread is full of people who either never used Windows 8 or used Windows 8 in passing at a store and developed this immense hatred for it.

You guys are as bad as the Windows idiots who blindly hate OS X.

 

[TallManNY]

If iPad sales were included, Apple would be on top of the list, beating everyone else combined. iPad sales for this Christmas quarter are not out, but last year they were over 22 million world wide.

Well if you include iPad sales and then include Android Tablet sales, I think Apple wouldn't be at the top.

 

[gnasher729]

The big question here is this:

What in the hell are Dell and Lenovo doing that HP, Toshiba and the others are not doing? How are Dell and Lenovo still in positive YoY growth? That secret I think everyone needs to know so they know how to overcome it and sell more of their own products. Apple too, they need to get Dell and Lenovo into the negative territory.

The PC market is in decline. But whether the market is declining or growing, there will always be some company that makes better offers than another, and percentages will switch. So Dell and Lenovo probably make better products and/or have better marketing than the others, but their customers didn't buy a PC because of that, they bought a Dell or Lenovo instead of HP or ASUS or Acer. Apple doesn't need to be concerned with Dell or Lenovo at all. Mostly they should be concerned with how many Macs they sell, maybe a little bit with their market share in the PC market, but how good Dell and Lenovo do is really no concern to Apple, only the PC market as a whole.

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Well if you include iPad sales and then include Android Tablet sales, I think Apple wouldn't be at the top.

See my previous post where I responded to the exact same objection.

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This thread is full of people who either never used Windows 8 or used Windows 8 in passing at a store and developed this immense hatred for it.

You guys are as bad as the Windows idiots who blindly hate OS X.

Coming from a guy with the name "TheHateMachine", complaining about any hatred seems rather stupid. That said, so far every Windows 8 user who talked to me about it said that they hated, hated, hated it.

 

[TallManNY]

This thread is full of people who either never used Windows 8 or used Windows 8 in passing at a store and developed this immense hatred for it.

You guys are as bad as the Windows idiots who blindly hate OS X.

I use Windows 8 and so does everyone in my office. The Metro stylings are turned off for everyone. I try to use Metro a bit, but hate that it defaults to gimped programs instead of the Office programs that I mainly use. It is an extremely frustrating experience for me to use it.

 

[TheHateMachine]

I use Windows 8 and so does everyone in my office. The Metro stylings are turned off for everyone. I try to use Metro a bit, but hate that it defaults to gimped programs instead of the Office programs that I mainly use. It is an extremely frustrating experience for me to use it.

I can understand hating the aesthetic of the Start Screen. Functionality wise... it is superior to the start menu. Also, why not set the default program to Office for your files? When a new program gets installed it pops up asking what the new default program should be?

 

[patseguin]

For me, I use my iPad more than my PC or my Mac. I think tablets are the future.

 

[kingtj]

I don't quite believe this ....

I hear this all the time, and understand that it's true for limited demographics. For example, take my mom? She feels a real need to have some kind of email address these days, and once in a while she wants to look something up on the Internet. Other than that, she basically wants a computer to use as a glorified typewriter for the occasional letter she needs to write, or to print out some home-made greeting cards around the holidays.

I think in her lifetime, she's only owned a grand total of 2 desktop PCs though! The first was a Windows '98 tower PC I built her and gave her for Christmas one year. When it got so painfully slow and outdated, *I* couldn't stand to see it anymore? I gave her another gift of a hand-me-down HP Media Center PC running XP. (That moved her into the "high tech" world of having a flat panel LCD screen instead of a CRT too!)

Now she's reached the point where that computer is having problems and she wants something else. But this time, she's talking about just getting a tablet. I think she's going to be frustrated by what that means for writing documents and printing them (basically going to need a bluetooth keyboard to pair up with it and will have to deal with the quirks of Word Processing on a tablet device). And not sure if there's a "Greeting Card Maker" of any quality for iOS that prints to inkjet printers? But otherwise it just makes sense. She can use it anywhere in the house instead of having to go upstairs in the spare bedroom all the time, and there's no more concern of getting a virus or malware from opening the wrong email message or clicking a bad link.

BUT -- people like her weren't exactly generating big sales for the desktop computer market in the first place!

I think plenty of people DO still need PCs in their homes. Tablets won't "do just fine", especially with the increased computer literacy of the general public these days. Tablets will satisfy the older people who never quite got the hang of the desktop PC in the first place. But most buyers use one in conjunction with a full blown computer.

Because people really don't need PC's anymore in their homes. Tablets will do just fine. Email, Facebook, music/radio, casual gaming, calenders, note taking - all just fine on a tablet.

PC's/Macs are only need for power users (video, photographers, hardcore gamers, business users on Excel, etc.)

 

[BaldiMac]

Well if you include iPad sales and then include Android Tablet sales, I think Apple wouldn't be at the top.

Who do you think would be on top if tablet sales were included?

 

[Renzatic]

Coming from a guy with the name "TheHateMachine", complaining about any hatred seems rather stupid. That said, so far every Windows 8 user who talked to me about it said that they hated, hated, hated it.

I use Windows 8, and after the initial shock, I ended up liking it alright. I wouldn't call it perfect, but a lot of its supposed failings are blown way out of proportion.

 

[kingtj]

re: Windows 8

Yep, I fully agree. I may be a Mac user and follow these forums regularly, but I also support a lot of Windows PCs at work and use a couple of them at home. (I have a Windows based system for working with music, because there are several great utilities for editing patches on my synthesizer that don't have Mac versions. And the kids have Windows machines too, because I got them at great prices and they play the games they want to use.)

We've got one with Windows 8 on it and another with 7, so I get to use both, side by side, all the time. I prefer the Windows 7 system except for a couple of small improvements I've seen in 8.

Windows 8, for example, has vastly improved parental controls. In 7, you have click to light up blocks in a grid to specify which hours of each day of the week a user is allowed to use the computer. If they want to use it outside that allocated time, you have to log in with the master account and make changes to those blocks of time, log back off, and let them try again. Big pain when it's a "one time exception" to the rules you usually want to enforce (like you might do on holidays or a weekend where you let the kids stay up later than usual). With 8, if their time runs out, they're offered right there to let a parent log in and grant them extra time from a drop-dowm list of options. MUCH better arrangement.

But the complaints about Metro still stand. It launches crippled custom versions of apps you'd rather use the full version of (Acrobat Reader, etc.), and it feels "bolted on" to me. Switching between Metro UI tiles and the regular "Desktop" is jarring and feels like I just switched screens between two different computers or something.

I use Windows 8 and so does everyone in my office. The Metro stylings are turned off for everyone. I try to use Metro a bit, but hate that it defaults to gimped programs instead of the Office programs that I mainly use. It is an extremely frustrating experience for me to use it.

 

[winston1236]

Why is this article ignoring that Apple experienced an overall 6.8 percent decrease in Mac sales last year? Macrumors picked the one positive "quarter" and is passing that off as a win?

 

[Daalseth]

Thank you MS for Windows 8! More and more will come....

Absolutely. I set up a users Win8 home system a few weeks ago and did my best to teach him how to use it. It's an all in one HP system with both mouse/keyboard and a touch screen. The m/kb and touch interfaces are a confusing mishmash and the user hates it. I've got tiles and taskbar links to his critical programs and he still gets lost in GUI hell where he isn't sure what to do. He hasn't figured out how to close a program window (though I've told him a couple of times) or put it in the background so he's force quitting apps when he can't get rid of them. Everything wants to open full screen and then he doesn't know where to go to open another app or how to get back to the desktop. The result is that he can't run more than one app at a time (yes I know it is possible but he can't figure out how to make it work). He's very unhappy with MS and HP for selling him "this POS computer". Last I heard he was slowly migrating back to his ancient XP box because he knows how to make it do what he wants.

I was thinking what would I do if Apple were to disappear today. If there were no MacOS any more and I had to run something else:...I'd build a PC running LinuxMint.

Yes Virginia, Windows8 is that bad.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I use Windows 8, and after the initial shock, I ended up liking it alright. I wouldn't call it perfect, but a lot of its supposed failings are blown way out of proportion.

Blown out of proportion? Here? No way!!

 

[TallManNY]

I can understand hating the aesthetic of the Start Screen. Functionality wise... it is superior to the start menu. Also, why not set the default program to Office for your files? When a new program gets installed it pops up asking what the new default program should be?

Well my laptop came from the IT department with everything installed. So those pop ups have already happened. I just never got around to figuring out how to change them. But I will do so. Still, I shouldn't have to fight my way back to McSFT's flagship Office programs. I will now use google to figure out how to turn off everything in Windows 8 Metro. Somehow I don't think this is what McSFT had in mind.

 

[scottsjack]

The standard metro apps are right on par with the MacOSX versions.

Oh please! The Metro mail app is weak, the Metro pictures app is very weak, the Metro video player is bad and the Metro music player is horrible. Even the iLife apps that shipped with Leopard are far superior to Metro's versions.

Additionally you cannot easily re-size and over-lap Metro apps without buying yet another how-to-make-W8-suck-less app to run them on the desktop.

The Windows Live Essentials apps have the potential to fill the gap. Unfortunately other than Mail they are mired down in a decade-old lack of function and visual ugliness.

I use Photo Gallery on W8. It is not too bad but it looks like a barely disguised File Explorer. Neither it nor Movie Maker are even close to iPhoto and iMovie in visual beauty and depth of features.

If Microsoft want to sell Windows via OEM computers it needs to include features that are instantly usable to customers.

 

[BaldiMac]

Why is this article ignoring that Apple experienced an overall 6.8 percent decrease in Mac sales last year? Macrumors picked the one positive "quarter" and is passing that off as a win?

Because it's reporting on data released about last quarter, and not about the previous 4 quarters. Those quarters were reported on at the time that data was released about each of them.

Also note that the article was updated with IDC's estimates that are much less rosy.

 

[ericinboston]

Personally I am happy that Macs are selling well. And "well" is an arbitrary term.

But these quarterly charts of comparing Macs to Wintels really doesn't mean much other than the point of what marketshare of ALL personal computers is Apple, Dell, HP, etc. Trying to compare units sold and year over year is pretty irrelevant especially since Mac, while a personal computer, doesn't run the same OS as Wintels.

Folks also need to remember that growing 28% is a lot EASIER if you are selling less to begin with. For example, if you sell 5 cookies this quarter and sell 7 cookies next quarter, WOW!...you sold about 50% more cookies! Congrats! But when your friend is selling 5000 cookies in Q1 and then 7000 cookies so still get about 50% growth, that's a lot more UNITS out there to make up MARKETSHARE...and if his town is only 8,000 people, his cookies are clearly the winner. The 5 or 7 cookies that the first guy sells pales in comparison to the 5000...or even 500...or even 50.

Good job for keeping the Mac line alive, Apple...but these comparisons are just pointless.

 

[Renzatic]

Blown out of proportion? Here? No way!!

I once had a friend of a friend of a cousin who knew a guy who was married to this one chick who's brother used Windows 8 once...

...and he died. :O

 

[Parasprite]

Who is they?

You type in a few lines of code, and then CPU starts crunching. Or you apply a filter to a photo, and CPU starts crunching (again a few lines of code). Your input is being done through the keyboard, which is connected to the computer using USB. So no human being is inputing things faster than a USB 2.0 connection can carry. And then the output is being displayed using displayport, which is a lot faster than USB but still not too fast that cables aren't enough. We have fiber connections today in the lab that can connect a display to your CPU which sits a mile away. In the near future those kinds of connections will be cheap and mass produced.

But people can do even without that today if all they need is big computation. You can deal with a few seconds of output delay obviously if the off site supercomputer will do your calculations 1000 times faster than your home computer.

They as in mrxac, the person you were just talking to, or have you already lost track?

Sorry for going off on you, it just didn't seem as if you really understood the scalability of the current problem.

A google search over the internet is really a poor example which belittles the massive bandwidth needed for [mrxac's example] of gaming which (at least for MMO-style games) can already being offloaded considerably by the servers, but still requires considerable local power to keep the bandwidth efficient and latency down (even a 500ms latency between inputs would considerably degrade play here–yes, you can feel it). Another common-cited example could be working with raw video or rendering at high resolutions. Yes, you could host large files offsite but we're still a LONG way from being able to push bandwidth for something like a 4K display over the internet (a local network doesn't apply here)–my own home setup couldn't support even my 1080p monitor (even if it can stream 1080p television with little difficulty).

But seriously, I think I see what you are saying now. I'll just say Teamviewer-style and I think you will get what I mean. It certainly wouldn't be a problem for 99.999...% of home users that we can easily agree on (although the bandwidth isn't even close to ready in some areas, but that's really an infrastructure problem).

 

[TallManNY]

Who do you think would be on top if tablet sales were included?

Worldwide it still wouldn't be Apple on top with tablet sales. Asus sells a ton of tablets and I suspect others would also get a boost. Lenovo is estimated to have sold 53 million computers. So even adding 40 million tablets to Apple's Mac sales wouldn't put Apple at the top. And Lenovo sells some tablets of its own.