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U.S. Senate Approves Anti-Discrimination Bill Endorsed by Tim Cook
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This is why my Children be not allowed to go to any form of Church or Temple or whatever until they're consenting adults. I refuse to expose small children to that stuff, its brainwashing.
I'm glad I didn't fall for it as a child. It made me a better person.
U.S. Senate Approves Anti-Discrimination Bill Endorsed by Tim Cook
And you seem like a good person by telling someone to F off because he asked you about Jesus Christ... Kids going to church may seem like brainwashing in your opinion and you have every right to keep your children away from attending, but to others it doesn't. My son loves going to church and it helps make him a better person.
And you seem like a good person by telling someone to F off because he asked you about Jesus Christ... Kids going to church may seem like brainwashing in your opinion and you have every right to keep your children away from attending, but to others it doesn't. My son loves going to church and it helps make him a better person.
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Are you assuming I'm gay because I think gay people should have equal rights?
As long as everyone involved is a consenting and informed adult I can't see an issue with anything to do with sexuality.
Of course I am a good person, I volunteer around my local community, donate to local charity, and sponsor people in charity events.
But when some random guy walks up to me screaming into my headset on my cellphone trying to eat his dinner, and tries to shove his religion down my throat when I'm busy, its his fault for being told off not mine. Maybe I should have asked him if his god is gonna get my project done by next Tuesday?
I want logic and science to rule my children lives, not a book from 2000 years ago. I also don't want them using religion as a crutch like so many people I know do. I find the idea of my children in a church to be scary, my sibilings bought all the stuff, and they turned into closed minded intolerant people. That will NOT happen to my kids.
I'm not saying Christians are bad people, because that simply isn't true. I just totally disagree with the very notion of a higher power, or a creator. Or any religion really. And I don't want my kids exposed to it at a young age, when they're older and can make an object decision? Sure
I honestly don't see HOW it makes him a better person, my experience growing up in church tells me that it would have made me a worse person. If it actually does make your son a better person, that is your right as a parent to let him to go church. And I would never ask anyone to not let their kid go to church.
However in 10 years if this conversation comes up
"dad! my new freind at school wants me to come to bible camp with her! she says it'll make me learn about Jesus! "
" Nope! "
" Why not daddy!? "
" Because I'm your dad and I know better, you'll thank me later, now here's a cookie! "
My personal experience learning and growing up in the Catholic Church was a mixture of total boredom, rejection of all the teachings, and sheer terror of burning in hell when I was younger.
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I'm a bit of an expert and I can tell you that no, its not a choice. I'd love for you to find a gay person for whom it is a choice (if you found one congrats! You found a bisexual!)
To put it bluntly, I get aroused by men just like straight guys get aroused by women. How is that not biological?
As for your "evolutionary standpoint" thats just a bad argument. Homosexuality has been observed in thousands of species so…explain that.
Yes, the world had a very different idea of marriage back then with dowrys and whatnot. In some parts of the world that is still the case. If you recall, though, Jesus spoke to the people of that time as well. Remember when he speaks about the hardness of their hearts, in regards to divorce? God's marriage is holy, sublime, a reflection of his covenant with Israel.
There's a whole different kind of marriage in the Bible though, brother. The mystical bride of Christ, the Church. Paul says that a Christian husband should lay down his life like Christ lays down his life for the Church.
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On that note, congratulations on your 100 posts. It's quite the privilege isn't it.
To address your first bolded statement: Why is the definition of marriage allowed to change back then but not now?
To address your second bolded statement: Thats a metaphor and doesn't make any sense in the context we are discussing.
Also Biblical scholars agree there is a gay love story in the Bible, why doesn't anyone ever want to talk about that? David and Jonathan.
EDIT: And one last final point to which not a single person on this thread can refute: Despite someones personal beliefs, why the hell should it EVER affect my life? If someone else is so backwards that they think two consenting adults loving one another is the worst thing ever why should it ever have an impact on my life?
Serious question to those so against homosexuality - what do you expect homosexuals to do? I think this homophobia a lot of people have begins with people thinking it's a choice, otherwise they'd be a bit more sympathetic. It's not a choice or anything they can change, so what are they suppose to do? Some guy said everyone has a 'choice' to control their actions, so by that, they should just stay celibate and single their whole lives because of what you say? Otherwise, do you expect them to marry someone of the opposite gender - who they are NOT attracted to? I'm seriously curious about what you guys expect homosexuals to do...
I don't think homophobes care if it's a choice or not. They're just backwards and finding a target for their own ignorance and hatred.
Religion is just one mask some homophobes use to hide behind. It's not really anything to do with belief. You can see that squarely, as some Christians are gay, and some are as pro-gay rights as anyone liberal minded.
Bigotry is something to do with ignorance, fear, self-loathing, insecurity.
It is sad to see people use their religion to mask their hatefulness. I grew up in the Church and don't see how anyone can be so hateful towards another person and use religion as an excuse. It's off-putting.
A lot of homophobes might not care if it's a choice or not but if they were a bit more educated on the subject, they might be a little more sympathetic. Idk, I say this cause I often see people use that "well, anything you do in life is a choice!" excuse a lot. They probably think it's something that can be easily cured or 'turned off.'
Are you assuming I'm gay because I think gay people should have equal rights?
I don't care how you live your life. That wasn't my point. I respect your right to live your life as you wish but equally I expect people to show me the same respect. My faith is important to me and I don't take kindly to being called a bigot for simply living my life according to my faith.
I don't hate gays I just don't agree with them that's all. But who cares. My views or actions don't affect you or anyone else. I don't go campaigning against gays or anyone else.
This is about mutual respect. You have your views and I have mine. One doesn't take precedent over the other.
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Would that be the same ignorance and hatred you have just demonstrated towards religious people simply because they have a different view.
No, it hasn't. But then the whole innate mechanisms that determine who we do or don't find attractive have not been unravelled.
Whatever you argue, one thing is fact - that sexual attraction is a chemical reaction, regardless of whether the object of that attraction is of the same or opposite sex. The fact we see it as a choice is not only due to the fact that we are sentient beings but that we have a more highly evolved analytical mind than other species which makes us question every single decision we make.
I suppose if you are of the mindset that humans aren't the result of millions of years of evolution and that we were put on earth in our current evolved form by God/Aliens/Gandalf the Wizard/other mythical being, then this might be hard for you to grasp.
As for the argument that if being gay was genetic, homosexuality would have been "bred out" of the human race, the same could be argued for all genetic conditions. The fact is, there are more factors at play than simply natural selection. Social pressures for people to marry and reproduce have, in the past forced people to remain closeted about there sexuality in order to fit in. I know many people with gay parents who didn't come out until after getting married and having children.
Also, the "gay gene", if such a thing exists, could be recessive meaning that straight people could be carriers but not be gay. The result of mating with another carrier would result in (and this is over simplifying) a 50% chance of being a carrier, 25% change of being straight, not a carrier, 25% chance of being gay.
But being "born gay" doesn't necessarily mean it is genetic. There are many factors that can impact on the development of the foetus in the womb such as hormonal changes in the mother. There is a train of thought that suggests these hormonal fluctuations could cause the brain to develop differently and result in the child being born gay.
If you want to argue that it's the result of liberal parenting, from first hand experience of growing up on a farm with a 6", beer drinking, rugby playing, conservative father who nearly disowned me when I finally had the balls to come out, I can tell you it's probably not the case.
But science aside, homophobia baffles me, mostly because in my extensive circle of university educated, rational, high achieving, cultured friends it is a complete non-issue. I have 5 godchildren (ok, three involved COE god-light) and I am "secular sponsor" or whatever you want to call it to the others. My partner is a well respected GP, I am from a well respected farming family in the county. And. No one. Gives. A. *****. that we're gay.
Just to clarify, I don't have a problem with religion as long as it is not used as an excuse to persecute or discriminate. And if anyone wants to come back at me with "the bible says this, the bible says that", watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw
In the eyes of the law it does, Human Rights always trumps religious rights. Here in Europe.
No you get called a bigot for saying things like "you can cry all you want, people will always hate you". Honestly if god does exist, he will really have a bone to pick with you, doesn't seem like you've been a very loving person.
As it has been pointed out previously, an employer discriminates in many ways when hiring and employing an individual. The goal for these types of laws or regulations is to focus that discrimination on what actually affects one's ability to perform a job versus personal biases that have little to do with that.
I completely agree that "consequences of their decisions" should come into play in this process. The candidate who didn't receive a high school diploma will likely have to live with the consequences of not achieving a decent education—which could directly affect their ability to do the job. An employee who likes to drink and party every night will likewise have to face the "consequences of their decisions" as it's likely their performance on the job will suffer because of their choices.
However, you would need to show the tangible effect—either in hiring or on the job—of a person who prefers their gender over the other gender. This is the missing component: the consequence of that decision. When the only real consequence is you hating that decision, then that's your problem, not theirs. That's when it becomes unlawful discrimination, and why we need laws to protect these people in the workplace.
I won't. Atheism is stupid
Stupid guy here...
Post above might just be considered...er...not too bright in itself.
But since it is such a well reasoned, eloquently expressed statement...I'll certainly give the point made careful consideration.
I don't understand the point of this bill. There are already plenty of anti-discrimination laws for the workplace. Perhaps they should improve enforcement rather than just add on more laws.
Agreed.That's the tricky part.
I appreciate our debate, honestly I do. This may be where we just agree to disagree. We've arrived at what it really comes down to -- what constitutes the exercise of religion? I will have to leave that to the legal scholars, but my final point is just that we should be able to respect both parties.
thanks for your honest posts. It's hard to discuss this in person because people get so insulted and the discussion usually just goes downhill (that happens here too but here we can pick and choose who we want to respond to, it's hard to do that when someone is screaming at a party because you disagreed with them)I want to ask you about your post but I want to make sure first I didn't misread it: are you saying a man isn't gay until he has gay sex first?
The point of the bill is pretty simple: to bring sexual orientation underneath the same protection as race, age, religion, etc.
Sexual orientation alone is not sufficient reason to deny a person a job, or mistreat them in the workplace.
I personally do not have a problem with this bill/movement. However, there are 2 sides to every bill and plenty of employers who DO have a problem with it. Think about employers who may be heavily involved in religious activities...if their beliefs are completely against this law (if it were passed), then those employers would be forced to hire people that are against their beliefs.
Do you think the Church hires atheists? Would it be lawful to force them to? Would it be ethical to force them to?
Do you think PETA hires butchers? Would it be lawful to force them to? Would it be ethical to force them to?
I think there are far too many "protect me!" laws/bills in the USA...it's nonsense that so many groups need to find a law to get them a job or not feel discriminated.
In this case, I really don't see/hear any real-world examples of people not being hired or fired due to their orientation. Let's see the examples...and let's hear the employer's take, too. And how many examples are there? There are about 150 million people employed in the USA...I don't want to necessarily back a bill that reflects 300 people being fired last year.
Again, I personally don't see a problem with this bill at the high level...but let's hear some real and detailed stats.
Do you think the Church hires atheists? Would it be lawful to force them to? Would it be ethical to force them to?
Do you think PETA hires butchers? Would it be lawful to force them to? Would it be ethical to force them to?
I think there are far too many "protect me!" laws/bills in the USA...it's nonsense that so many groups need to find a law to get them a job or not feel discriminated.
In this case, I really don't see/hear any real-world examples of people not being hired or fired due to their orientation. Let's see the examples...and let's hear the employer's take, too. And how many examples are there? There are about 150 million people employed in the USA...I don't want to necessarily back a bill that reflects 300 people being fired last year.
Again, I personally don't see a problem with this bill at the high level...but let's hear some real and detailed stats.
It wasn't asinine in the slightest. People talk about paedophilia being wrong because children can't consent to sexual activity.
Is a paedophile who is celibate entitled to protections based on their sexual orientation?
I personally think that homosexual activities are morally reprehensible. I don't think that anyone who is afflicted with same sex attraction should be discriminated against.
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The right to freedom of religion IS a human right.
Here in Europe.