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U.S. Senate Panel Approves Antitrust Bill That Would Allow Sideloading

boss.king said:
I have no idea what Steam or the Epic store are like these days, it’s been years since I owned a gaming PC. But I know for a fact that Apple can do more to improve the App Store just by looking at its many shortcomings that exist today.

Ultimately, I’m sure some devs will pull out of the App Store, and some of those may return, but I just don’t think it’s going to be at a scale that most people would notice or care about. Devs already deprecate apps all the time because competition is tough, so they’d have to have really done the math before pulling out of a store that lists their app in the pocket of billions of people by default.

Basically, I think it’s going to be far less of a big deal than you seem to, and will give devs whose apps can actually offer new functionality a chance to reach a whole new audience. Tiny downside—potential for big upsides. But I do acknowledge that we’re both just guessing and know one really knows how this will play out.
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I either see two options here. Either it won't be a big deal and side-loading on iOS is as beneficial and used as on Android which makes these lawsuits, investigations, complains useless. Or Epic will do what they do on PC to really make App Store hurt.

People seem to be on board with this to make the App Store hurt, so I see the second option being the most likely. Could be the first, but I seriously doubt Epic will just make a store and that is it. We will just have to see but this is the perfect time to have these conversations because once it is open, especially due to a order by the government, it cannot be closed up again.
 
Ethosik said:
I either see two options here. Either it won't be a big deal and side-loading on iOS is as beneficial and used as on Android which makes these lawsuits, investigations, complains useless. Or Epic will do what they do on PC to really make App Store hurt.

People seem to be on board with this to make the App Store hurt, so I see the second option being the most likely. Could be the first, but I seriously doubt Epic will just make a store and that is it. We will just have to see but this is the perfect time to have these conversations because once it is open, especially due to a order by the government, it cannot be closed up again.
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And that’s precisely why I think Apple should have loosened their grip before the government loosens it for them.

I’m certainly not for making the App Store hurt, I’m for Apple being motivated to make it better by something other than benevolence.
 
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boss.king said:
And that’s precisely why I think Apple should have loosened their grip before the government loosens it for them.

I’m certainly not for making the App Store hurt, I’m for Apple being motivated to make it better by something other than benevolence.
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But loosing their grip by allowing side loading? If nobody does it on Android, what is the evidence that iOS would be any different? It will just open it up to malware for no benefit.
 
Ethosik said:
But loosing their grip by allowing side loading? If nobody does it on Android, what is the evidence that iOS would be any different? It will just open it up to malware for no benefit.
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People do use sideloading (ie installing apps from elsewhere) on Android, but the Play Store is still the main place people get their apps from.

I’ve already explained the benefit, and the risk of malware it really overblown unless Apple has built their app with the shoddiest of security (which hopefully they haven’t).
 
boss.king said:
People do use sideloading (ie installing apps from elsewhere) on Android, but the Play Store is still the main place people get their apps from.

I’ve already explained the benefit, and the risk of malware it really overblown unless Apple has built their app with the shoddiest of security (which hopefully they haven’t).
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Well if people do side load, why did Epic come back to the Play Store?
 
Ethosik said:
But loosing their grip by allowing side loading? If nobody does it on Android, what is the evidence that iOS would be any different? It will just open it up to malware for no benefit.
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It will force Apple to offer better terms to devs or risk the iOS App Store looking more like the Mac App Store. Apple clearly makes money hand over fist by skimming their 15% and 30%. While it’s unknown exactly what Apple’s profit margins are on the App Store, it’s undeniably very favorable to Apple. Some estimates are between 70% and 80%, though Apple very much wants that to remain secret.

www.marketwatch.com

How much does Apple make from the App Store? Even a landmark antitrust trial couldn't reveal it

During the trial of Epic Games Inc.'s antitrust lawsuit against Apple Inc., investors got a glimpse of how profitable the App Store may possibly be, even...
www.marketwatch.com www.marketwatch.com

While Apple no doubt invests significant resources into the App Store, when those inputs are amortized across millions of developers, they’re really rather modest investments considering the returns Apple sees. As others have noted, there’s no reason in a side-loading regime that devs can’t offer their product both on and off the App Store. App Store users would likely pay a premium for the “guarantee of Apple’s infallible security” versus those downloading directly from the dev.

There’s also just the basic idea that with Apple controlling access to over half of U.S. consumers, that some reasonable limits should be in place regarding what Apple is allowed to dictate to an enormous market.
 
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Ethosik said:
But loosing their grip by allowing side loading? If nobody does it on Android, what is the evidence that iOS would be any different? It will just open it up to malware for no benefit.
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Oh we do it on Android. Most of my Android apps are o-s and not from the Play Store.
I could see a lot of the same (for me) on iOS.
 
Ethosik said:
Well if people do side load, why did Epic come back to the Play Store?
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Because it’s not an all or nothing thing. People sideload, but not at a scale that made it worth it to not have Fortnite in the official store. But it’s a scale that might make sense for other types of apps.

For example (totally made up numbers) 10 million users might be an abject failure for Fortnite, but an overwhelming success for a niche podcast player made by a team of three people.
 
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vipergts2207 said:
It will force Apple to offer better terms to devs or risk the iOS App Store looking more like the Mac App Store. Apple clearly makes money hand over fist by skimming their 15% and 30%. While it’s unknown exactly what Apple’s profit margins are on the App Store, it’s undeniably very favorable to Apple. Some estimates are between 70% and 80%, though Apple very much wants that to remain secret.

www.marketwatch.com

How much does Apple make from the App Store? Even a landmark antitrust trial couldn't reveal it

During the trial of Epic Games Inc.'s antitrust lawsuit against Apple Inc., investors got a glimpse of how profitable the App Store may possibly be, even...
www.marketwatch.com www.marketwatch.com

While Apple no doubt invests significant resources into the App Store, when those inputs are amortized across millions of developers, they’re really rather modest investments considering the returns Apple sees. As others have noted, there’s no reason in a side-loading regime that devs can’t offer their product both on and off the App Store. App Store users would likely pay a premium for the “guarantee of Apple’s infallible security” versus those downloading directly from the dev.

There’s also just the basic idea that with Apple controlling access to over half of U.S. consumers, that some reasonable limits should be in place regarding what Apple is allowed to dictate to an enormous market.
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So companies are not allowed to price their own products and services how they see fit? 30% is an understood amount up front, clearly listed when you sign up for a development account and in their legal documents. It is what you agree to. Steam, Xbox, Playstation, Microsoft, Google and many others take the same 30% cut. But its bad when Apple does it. Why?
 
Ethosik said:
So companies are not allowed to price their own products and services how they see fit? 30% is an understood amount up front, clearly listed when you sign up for a development account and in their legal documents. It is what you agree to. Steam, Xbox, Playstation, Microsoft, Google and many others take the same 30% cut. But its bad when Apple does it. Why?
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I suspect type (use) is the reason.
Killing game consoles will not critically impact life. Killing cell phones on the other hand would have a very negative impact.
I do not own a game console. However between my job and personal need I have to mobile devices (1 Android, 1 iPhone).

MPO YOMV
 
I7guy said:
We all know where we stand and we will see what the future holds. I thought it was widely predicted (or widely hoped) by some that epic would crush apple…so one never knows what is going to happen and what may happen if a Supreme Court case could be put in the docket.
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I don’t know about “widely,” or even a majority, that predicted Epic would prevail in its lawsuit, let alone “crush Apple.” The consensus view that I saw was that based on existing antitrust law they were on shaky ground at best. It did, however, certainly succeed in generating publicity for their side of the argument, which might or might not have had a role in accelerating these events.

My own view was that it probably doesn’t matter in the end what happens with Epic Games v. Apple, one way or the other. Unless Big Tech companies righted their own ships, this day was bound to come eventually. With a bipartisan, 16–6 vote to approve the bill out of the Senate Judiciary Committee, I’d argue that this bill — perhaps with some minor amendments — is a favorite to pass the full Senate as well. I’ve yet to see any substantive political appetite to defend Big Tech, in any fashion, from either side of the aisle.
 
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jonblatho said:
I don’t know about “widely,” or even a majority, that predicted Epic would prevail in its lawsuit, let alone “crush Apple.” The consensus view that I saw was that based on existing antitrust law they were on shaky ground at best. It did, however, certainly succeed in generating publicity for their side of the argument, which might or might not have had a role in accelerating these events.

My own view was that it probably doesn’t matter in the end what happens with Epic Games v. Apple, one way or the other. Unless Big Tech companies righted their own ships, this day was bound to come eventually. With a bipartisan, 16–6 vote to approve the bill out of the Senate Judiciary Committee, I’d argue that this bill — perhaps with some minor amendments — is a favorite to pass the full Senate as well. I’ve yet to see any substantive political appetite to defend Big Tech, in any fashion, from either side of the aisle.
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Again, we will see. I certainly would like to predict the final outcome as I write this but alas I am lacking those powers.
 
Ethosik said:
So companies are not allowed to price their own products and services how they see fit? 30% is an understood amount up front, clearly listed when you sign up for a development account and in their legal documents. It is what you agree to. Steam, Xbox, Playstation, Microsoft, Google and many others take the same 30% cut. But its bad when Apple does it. Why?
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Generally yes you can price your goods for whatever you like, within the bounds of the law of course. I’m all for looking at these other large tech companies as well. I’m not picking solely on Apple here.
 
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XXPP said:
ok. I want buy in apple store games for PS5/XBOX/PC STEAM, etc.
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In the PlayStation App for the iPhone, you can buy digital games for your PS4/PS5 and have them downloaded to your system. Also, you pay with your Sony account, not an Apple in-app purchase. Apple doesn’t make anything off the purchase, because they shouldn’t, just like if you order from Amazon using the Amazon app.
 
Ok, fine, but where were they 14 or something years when this whole thing started though? Why today, why now?

So maybe in about 15 years give or take, Microsoft will be hit with antitrust* fines, bills, new rules, etc for collecting so much of the video games space under its umbrella? Xbox games to be able to be bought, downloaded and installed from any online store or something.

*if it is lucrative that is, because I bet if there’s not a big cow of cash to be extracted away it would be turned a blind eye.
 
Apple might be able to comply by saying they already allow sideloading.

Just pay $99/annum to enroll in Apple’s developer program, buy a Mac, download Xcode, and build from source any app you want to side load on any of your own iOS devices.

Done.

Congress can then vote for educational assistance for those who need to learn the required skills as part of the STEM thing.
 
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amartinez1660 said:
Ok, fine, but where were they 14 or something years when this whole thing started though? Why today, why now?

So maybe in about 15 years give or take, Microsoft will be hit with antitrust* fines, bills, new rules, etc for collecting so much of the video games space under its umbrella? Xbox games to be able to be bought, downloaded and installed from any online store or something.

*if it is lucrative that is, because I bet if there’s not a big cow of cash to be extracted away it would be turned a blind eye.
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It wasn’t an issue 14 years ago because smartphones were a nascent technology rather than borderline necessary to function in society. At the time, Apple also wasn’t seriously competing with App Store apps and services because it wasn’t hellbent on increasing Services revenue at all costs. No small portion of Apple’s antitrust woes could be resolved simply by no longer trying to be a referee and play the game at the same time.

As for the second question, who knows what the burgeoning gaming industry will look like in 15 years? Especially given uncertainty in how the metaverse will play out, sure, an antitrust case could be necessary by then including (but perhaps not limited to) Microsoft. Not because they control too much of the market necessarily, but if they begin to abuse whatever power they find themselves with in such a fashion that specifically harms consumers.
 
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ericwn said:
Who is this Mel?
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1642752455674.jpeg
 
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