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The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee today approved the American Innovation and Choice Online Act, which means it will now move on to the Senate floor for a vote
No desire to read 10 pages of comments that are going to be polarised anyways.

The keyword here is “vote”. It’s not even be voted yet, meaning it is still 90% of its way to become a law. I wouldn't even call this a milestone. Chill out people. I bet senate has enough Apple fans that can easily block the bill and kill it in its infancy.
 
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People that value security and privacy don't care much because sideloading is that their thing for sure. The issue for Apple is for people that sideload and then call Apple support if there is a problem.
It is easy for Apple support walk them thru a factory reset and if that does not work than reset using DFU mode.
 
So is Microsoft. So is Google. But ARE they abusing their position and actively participating in anti-competitive behavior?

Microsoft is on the verge of abusing their dominance buy purchasing game studios which causes Sony's stock to tank and them questioning if they will still get Call of Duty on Playstation consoles. Sounds like you are against big tech in general? I am, not just Apple but Microsoft and Google too. They are just way too big. But I still don't agree that the government should force Apple to change iOS in such a way it undermines the security and advantage a lot of people trust on iPhone. I am more for breaking up Apple (and Microsoft and Google so you know I am not just hating on Apple) vs this situation.
I’m curious how you would break up Apple in a way that would cause less harm than you claim allowing sidelining will have.
 
Look at Android, a much, much closer analogue, where Epic tried to pull Fortnite from the play store only to have to quickly put it back because most of their users didn’t want to install it from elsewhere.
That’s a different story, Google does allow sideloading but prohibits manufacturers from adding alternative Stores, a lawsuit was also filed against google, and many more lawsuits will come. Additionally they made sideloading in a kinda anticompetitive way.

2022/2023 will be interesting!
 
That’s a different story, Google does allow sideloading but prohibits manufacturers from adding alternative Stores, a lawsuit was also filed against google, and many more lawsuits will come. Additionally they made sideloading in a kinda anticompetitive way.

2022/2023 will be interesting!
That’s not that different from what’s being discussed. Android users can sideload different apps and app stores, which is what this bill is proposing (at least as far as I understand).
 
Apple could create a special watermark in official app store software and if that is not present could be logged and used as a basis for denial in the event that someones phone is affected by what they downloaded.
The issue is that would be illegal under the magnuson moss warranty act since Apple has to actually prove the sideloaded app caused the damage not speculate that was the cause of damage.
 
No desire to read 10 pages of comments that are going to be polarised anyways.

The keyword here is “vote”. It’s not even be voted yet, meaning it is still 90% of its way to become a law. I wouldn't even call this a milestone. Chill out people. I bet senate has enough Apple fans that can easily block the bill and kill it in its infancy.
Passing a bill out of committee on to the full Senate isn’t a milestone?? Interesting take. The bill also passed out of the committee 16-6 with 5 Republicans on board. If you extrapolate the committee vote to the full Senate it would pass 72-28 in the Senate. Now that’s obviously an imperfect approximation, but your bet on having enough “Apple fans in the Senate” would seem to be on fairly shaky ground.
 
The problem there is that the average customer likely won’t fully understand their options or the consequences of those options.
They fully understand it, that’s the typical Apple awkward parenting mindset: Everybody is dumb and unwilling to learn. They probably forgot that they fell approx 1000 times on their ass before they learned to walk.
 
It is essentially punishing Apple because they are successful.
I don’t care how successful Apple is, I care about whether they’re abusing their position as effectively the sole distributor of iOS software. This legislation regulates Apple, which controls a massive market in the iOS App Store as part of a duopoly, because it has failed to regulate itself despite having been given ample warning and opportunity to resolve the matter on their own terms.

Legislators have been fairly clear for the past few years that they take issue with Apple’s position as both referee and player in the “game” of the App Store. As Apple has declined to resolve the matter themselves, governments now feel compelled to fix it for them. Apple would vastly prefer to have fixed it themselves, but they can’t say they weren’t warned.

Also comical that Apple and Google reportedly spent as much as tens of millions of dollars lobbying against this bill only to have it blown out 16–6 in a committee vote.
 
People against sideloading seem to forget that sideloading is voluntary, and you can choose to use 100% app store if you want.

You can sideload on Android devices yet choose to only download from the Play Store.

Sideloading gives you more options, not less. It gives you access to software that Apple doesn't approve of, like emulators and adult apps. It keeps Apple from being able to censor certain apps as easily. Remember the Discord controversy earlier about adult chats? Apple shouldn't have say in what people talk about and share on their own phones.

Support sideloading.

But if developers decide to not put apps on the App Store, and only make them available through other ways… thinking they can make a little more money… You haven’t just gained choice. You are then forced to either obtain it through that alternate method, or not at all.
This is the exact problem with the Mac App Store. It’s a ghost town comparatively. I don’t like having to Google various software, figure out where to download it, try to determine if it’s even a safe source… and then hand over financial info to that source. And then is the problem of subscriptions. I have to try to remember who I have subscriptions with, when they renew, how to cancel, etc. on the App Store it’s all easy to view in one place.
It’s okay to disagree, but please don’t pretend this is all benefit with no downside.
 
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Maybe not, but that doesn't mean I don't want my representatives to protect my interests and legislate with that reality in mind. Apple may have knocked out the other OS's fair and square, but they're now in a position to abuse their market dominance because developers and consumers have but two choices, coincidentally (or perhaps not) both with remarkably similar terms.
And that doesn’t mean I don’t want my representatives to protect and represent my interests, which is keeping their noses out of areas that are not illegal. So yeah, cast your ballot accordingly.
 
They fully understand it, that’s the typical Apple awkward parenting mindset: Everybody is dumb and unwilling to learn. They probably forgot that they fell approx 1000 times on their ass before they learned to walk.
I think you’re missing my point. If you asked a random iPhone user off the street if they want sideloading and why, they either couldn’t give you an answer or could t articulate their answer. I 100% believe people can learn (we’ve seen it happen over and over again) but giving the general public the choice without heavily educating them first (and even then, who gets to do the educating) is just asking for pain.
 
And that doesn’t mean I don’t want my representatives to protect and represent my interests, which is keeping their noses out of areas that are not illegal. So yeah, cast your ballot accordingly.
Certainly. And based on the committee vote, my view appears to be more popular in the Senate.
 
But if developers decide to not put apps on the App Store, and only make them available through other ways… thinking they can make a little more money… You haven’t just gained choice. You are then forced to either obtain it through that alternate method, or not at all.
This is the exact problem with the Mac App Store. It’s a ghost town comparatively. I don’t like having to Google various software, figure out where to download it, try to determine if it’s even a safe source… and then hand over financial info to that source. And then is the problem of subscriptions. I have to try to remember who I have subscriptions with, when they renew, how to cancel, etc. on the App Store it’s all easy to view in one place.
It’s okay to disagree, but please don’t pretend this is all benefit with no downside.
It’s also the developers choice to choose the distribution channel they want. Anyway, serious software developers wouldn’t go that way. Look at Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher or at MS Office. It exists to be bought over their site and over the MacAppStore, both distribution channels can coexist, as you can see.
 
But if developers decide to not put apps on the App Store, and only make them available through other ways… thinking they can make a little more money… You haven’t just gained choice. You are then forced to either obtain it through that alternate method, or not at all.
This is the exact problem with the Mac App Store. It’s a ghost town comparatively. I don’t like having to Google various software, figure out where to download it, try to determine if it’s even a safe source… and then hand over financial info to that source. And then is the problem of subscriptions. I have to try to remember who I have subscriptions with, when they renew, how to cancel, etc. on the App Store it’s all easy to view in one place.
It’s okay to disagree, but please don’t pretend this is all benefit with no downside.

NO reason the Mac App Store can't be fixed @ the same time as the iOS App Store !

Whatever New Law is enacted, it should, ideally, apply to both.
 
This is the exact problem with the Mac App Store. It’s a ghost town comparatively.
Most developers on the iOS App Store would be insane to leave it unless there is a specific and compelling use case that dictates their departure. On the contrary, macOS has never required developers to use the App Store and has often given developers little reason to migrate to it, what with restrictions that non-App Store apps aren’t subjected to and handing over 15%/30% of your revenue to Apple.

Almost like the Mac App Store is competing and faltering because its terms aren’t actually all that competitive.

And that doesn’t mean I don’t want my representatives to protect and represent my interests, which is keeping their noses out of areas that are not illegal. So yeah, cast your ballot accordingly.
It's up to Congress to determine what conduct is and isn’t illegal with respect to interstate commerce, a power given to them by the Constitution. This is their determining that some conduct that is currently legal should not be because existing antitrust law does not adequately cover the current competitive landscape with respect to Big Tech.
 
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It’s also the developers choice to choose the distribution channel they want. Anyway, serious software developers wouldn’t go that way. Look at Affinity Photo/Designer/Publisher or at MS Office. It exists to be bought over their site and over the MacAppStore, both distribution channels can coexist, as you can see.
Savvy devs will indeed use multiple distribution channels. Lowest price will be direct from them. Those customers who insist on “Apple’s infallible security” will be able to buy on the App Store at a 15/30% premium.
 
Passing a bill out of committee on to the full Senate isn’t a milestone?? Interesting take. The bill also passed out of the committee 16-6 with 5 Republicans on board. If you extrapolate the committee vote to the full Senate it would pass 72-28 in the Senate. Now that’s obviously an imperfect approximation, but your bet on having enough “Apple fans in the Senate” would seem to be on fairly shaky ground.
I guess that’s different take on milestone then. To me, unless the new law is voted and passed, that’s not enough of a milestone. Also, I would not be very confident on that extrapolation either. I will see how the vote goes.

Granted, I am not a politician or working with one, so feel free to ignore everything I just said.
 
This can be a problematic thing when allowing side loading. Think about all the apps you currently trust on the App Store because they have to abide by Apple’s policies. Now image those app developers say screw it and they’ll not make an Apple App Store version but only a side loading version that can do whatever they want for data collection purposes and you can’t opt out of it because its been sideloaded.

Imagine if Netflix, or any other popular app, said cool now we don’t have to use the App Store. We’ll make a sideloading version only and then we can gather and sell as much user info as we want to.

So while sideloading can come with benefits it also should have a lot of regulation. I’m concerned that politicians won’t respect many or some of those concerns. So even if a person was trying to only download Apple approved apps there are a lot of developers that could simply just pull their apps from the App Store and side load only.

Bit of a tin foil hat theory but still a valid one. When you give corrupt people an alley they can go down they will go down it.

Have said it before, will say it again, Fear of Sideloading is the ONLY thing that will bring Apple to the bargaining table !

At some point, very-likely BEFORE June 7th, Apple will agree to a middle-ground solution.

Starting June 7th, Apple will have a difficult time getting anyone to believe they don't have a Monopoly !
 
I think you’re missing my point. If you asked a random iPhone user off the street if they want sideloading and why, they either couldn’t give you an answer or could t articulate their answer. I 100% believe people can learn (we’ve seen it happen over and over again) but giving the general public the choice without heavily educating them first (and even then, who gets to do the educating) is just asking for pain.
Sure most of them won’t know what sideloading is, simply because the term “sideloading” itself is awkward. Sideloading is just a fancy new debased naming for installing software downloaded normally from the web, wrapped with fictive malware excuses.
 
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I’m curious how you would break up Apple in a way that would cause less harm than you claim allowing sidelining will have.
Well we don't need TV, cars and arcade under the main Apple umbrella. Breaking this to smaller companies (compared to Apple as-is) will allow other smaller companies to compete. Because Apple TV as a company will have the same budgets and cash available compared to Netflix and others.
 
They think the moment sideloading is opened up that every big dev is going to pull their app from the App Store. Because they don't know that companies have already tried this on Android and lost market share (eg Epic pulling Fortnite from the Play Store, only to quickly put it back because no one was playing anymore).

Exactly.

Android has had things like sideloading and alternative apps stores since the beginning.

But no one cares.

Almost all Android apps still come from the official Google Play Store.

So maybe iOS users will largely ignore sideloading too if Apple is forced to allow it.

And thanks for mentioning Epic and Fortnite with regards to sideloading. I remember when Epic made a big deal about leaving the Google Play Store... only to come crawling back 18 months later.

Apparently being on the official store really does mean something... even for the most popular game in the world.

You're right... it might not be the best idea for developers to pull out of the App Store. It could actually be worse for them.
 
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