U.S. Senate Panel Approves Antitrust Bill That Would Allow Sideloading

[BootsWalking]

Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure this bill really open competition or even has the same intent as the BOCs you mention. I would actually think that using market cap and size as a trigger would be more risky. The concept of a closed App Store architecture (single App Store on a device) is the same regardless of market cap. Xbox store is only store on Xbox, Sony store is only store on PlayStation, App Store is only store on iOS. Sounds punitive to target only the one store on a platform over $xx market share.

The precise threshold in the proposed bill is as follows (from the WSJ article):

In general, the legislation applies to companies with a market cap greater than $550 billion and more than 50 million monthly active users that are considered “critical trading partners” for other businesses to access customers.

I don't disagree that this may not be the most effective or precise threshold to achieve the market effects the bill's creators want. History is littered with misdirected and unintended consequences from US legislation. But that alone would not be grounds to call it punitive - it's only grounds to call it misguided, ineffective, or stupid

 

[webkit]

Will there really be options? Developers would probably just restrict app distributions to their own channel.

Perhaps but that wouldn't mean less options and if developers are able to distribute through their own or other sources for less, it could mean lower app/in-app purchase fees/prices for consumers especially if Apple would end up having to lower its developer App Store fees to remain competitive.

As far as more options go, there are no doubt apps out there that developers for whatever reason chose not to offer through the App Store which would now be available. Sure, some of these should probably be avoided but that's up to the user.

The App Store may be a safe place to get apps right now but it doesn't mean existing or future alternatives can't be just as safe. The App Store isn't perfect and Apple has had to remove many apps for the store over the years.

 

[Ethosik]

In the grand scheme of things, this wont affect me much. If a developer want to use 3rd party appstore, I simply wont buy. It's really simple as 1+1 = 2.

People gullible enough to get scammed will get scammed regardless. Policy makers cant see a problem when it's in front of them. Sometimes you just gotta touch that red burning stove to understand.

That is what I said about Epic Games Store and PC vs Steam. Then Final Fantasy 7 Remake came out which is one of my favorite games of all time. So yeah, I got the Epic Games Store.

 

[Ethosik]

Again, nothing is perfect. But if you’re sitting here saying that an OS would be more secure with any/every app a user finds online you’re whack.

That is the problem with these comments. Its like if ANYTHING happens, let's just tear down the entire system because ITS NOT 100%!!!!

 

[jimimac71]

Couldn't agree more.

the general public cell phone users are non-technical and/or misinformed, their paranoia hurts everyone.

Of course Tim Cook is the leader of the pack to instill fear in all nonbelievers.
I got my first virus from a 50 pack of blank 3.5 inch floppy disks purchased through the mail. Norton saved my bacon way back them.
Now I get creative spam email and spam voicemail.
I still use Norton on my Windows PC, and it continues to save me from making stupid mistakes.

 

[Ethosik]

People against sideloading seem to forget that sideloading is voluntary, and you can choose to use 100% app store if you want.

And people who keep throwing the "voluntary" word around are forgetting/not paying attention to what is going on in the PC space. Epic wants their own store on iOS. Just like what they are doing to Steam, they will pay for exclusives which only exist in the Epic Games Store on iOS. So no, if a critical app becomes exclusive we won't have a choice.

You can only boycott it for so long, I finally gave up after Final Fantasy 7 Remake came out. Guess what, not on Steam.

Using an iPhone is voluntary, if you want side-loading get an Android phone. THIS is the choice we have. Now there will be NO choice anymore. Where is my choice if I want a completely walled garden environment? There is none anymore. There was, but not now.

 

[nebojsak]

Using an iPhone is voluntary, if you want side-loading get an Android phone. THIS is the choice we have. Now there will be NO choice anymore. Where is my choice if I want a completely walled garden environment? There is none anymore. There was, but not now.

But there is. You decide if you want to open the doors from time to time, or keep it shut forever. No one could open it except you.

 

[Ethosik]

Then you aren’t forced to reward that developer’s decision by installing that app. The fact that sideloading would most likely be disabled by default and buried deep in Settings and probably multiple scary dialogs requiring user confirmation to enable that functionality in the first place is enough of a UX hindrance to offer a compelling reason to stay in the App Store for an overwhelming majority of developers. That's without even getting to the issue of how to tell people how to find your app outside the App Store, how to deal with updates, and so on.

Sideloading, however, would allow apps that Apple currently forbids for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with security and everything to do with their bottom line.

Well.....take your own advice here. Vote with your wallet. Don't buy iPhone. If sideloading is what you want, get an Android phone. If enough people do this, Apple will change or iPhone will die. I don't agree the government should require Apple to do this, this is why we have a free market. It is essentially punishing Apple because they are successful.

 

[Ethosik]

But there is. You decide if you want to open the doors from time to time, or keep it shut forever. No one could open it except you.

My choice of a completely locked down phone (as in NOT POSSIBLE to open easily without hacking) is now gone. I no longer have a choice. It is the ONLY reason I use iPhone. Android phones are cheaper and better, but iPhone is completely locked down and not possible to open up. Now that choice is gone.

 

[Ethosik]

You’re entitled to your detached from reality opinion. Never heard apple describe MacOs as vulnerable with all the any/every app a user can find online.. it’s not about finding, it’s about installing. Someone would be detached from reality to do so..

My gosh people, this is NOT even debatable.

Closed system is inherently more secure than an open system. NO QUESTIONS. It is, by the very definition of being "open" less secure. And it is not just malware. Facebook can pull their app, add it to a third party store and not disclose all the privacy concerns their app causes.

 

[boss.king]

Partially agree, but - as longtime user, I don't want grandmas and technologically illiterate to be the ones that set the bar for everything. That's why we're talking about Apple giving a choice.

I agree on that, our limits shouldn’t be set to what the lowest common denominator can do. Choice and education is definitely the key, not artificial limitations and profit-motivated restrictions.

 

[nebojsak]

My choice of a completely locked down phone (as in NOT POSSIBLE to open easily without hacking) is now gone. I no longer have a choice. It is the ONLY reason I use iPhone. Android phones are cheaper and better, but iPhone is completely locked down and not possible to open up. Now that choice is gone.

Again - you decide. It's your phone. If you want it to be locked down, it will be. Simple as that.

 

[zorinlynx]

And people who keep throwing the "voluntary" word around are forgetting/not paying attention to what is going on in the PC space. Epic wants their own store on iOS. Just like what they are doing to Steam, they will pay for exclusives which only exist in the Epic Games Store on iOS. So no, if a critical app becomes exclusive we won't have a choice.

You can only boycott it for so long, I finally gave up after Final Fantasy 7 Remake came out. Guess what, not on Steam.

Using an iPhone is voluntary, if you want side-loading get an Android phone. THIS is the choice we have. Now there will be NO choice anymore. Where is my choice if I want a completely walled garden environment? There is none anymore. There was, but not now.

Well gee, if sideloading or alternate app stores were allowed, we would have Epic games on iOS. Whereas right now without sideloading, we don't.

 

[aidler]

Good News

 

[Ethosik]

I said goodbye to macOS security since I first started using Macs back in the late 1980s when we were able to get apps (freeware, shareware, paid ware) from anywhere we wanted and can still to this day. You know what? Zero problems since.

But go ahead and continue to spread your (and Apple's) FUD




Oh, please

Yeah, macOS has NO malware AT ALL just because you don't have it right? Windows has A LOT of malware, I never get malware on Windows. Doesn't mean its not there.

Report: macOS malware boomed in 2020, but still a fraction of Windows threats - 9to5Mac

A study looking at new malware found in the wild during 2020 says that threats developed for macOS saw a...

9to5mac.com

Malware Statistics & Trends Report | AV-TEST

Provides visualizations of malware statistics that have happened in the last year, 2 years, 5 years, and 10 year time period.

www.av-test.org

 

[Ethosik]

Macs are largely immune from virus/malware/adware though. A much better example would be Windows. It might not be as bad as it used to be, but Windows is riddled with things that secretly steal from the user.

Stop the patronizing tone, btw. We can have a discussion without immature comments about someone being crazy, which is essentially what you were trying to say.

Completely agree. But I 100% guarantee if macOS and Windows marketshare was flipped, macOS would be filled with Malware. "open" environment is, by definition, less secure. There should be no debating this!

If I never lock my doors, that is by definition, less secure than if I lock my doors. I don't know why this is such a hot debate here. Just because macOS is open and not messy with malware like Windows is ONLY due to marketshare. Implementations on things differ from macOS and Windows, but there are unfound security holes in macOS, just like there are still unfound security holes in Windows 11 still. But Windows 10/11 has WAY WAY WAY more eyes on it than macOS.

 

[Ethosik]

To paragraph 1, that is exactly the point. Right now we have no choice.

People really need to stop this. This is completely 100% false. Android is there for side loading. You have a choice. People brought up a good comparison. This is like walking in to a McDonalds and demanding a Burger King burger. It just doesn't work that way. If you want Burger King, go to Burger King. If you want sideloading, go Android. Choice is clearly there.

This is taking away MY choice of a completely walled garden environment that cannot be opened. So this removes choice, not adds it.

 

[Ethosik]

Again - you decide. It's your phone. If you want it to be locked down, it will be. Simple as that.

You are missing my point. My choice of a locked down system ---IMPORTANT PART HERE--- THAT CANNOT BE OPENED....is now gone. Right now, you cannot side load on iOS with a simple toggle. THIS is why I chose iPhone to begin with. This is why I pay $300+ more on my phone vs a better Android phone for just this experience.

Again, read the important part --- CANNOT BE OPENED.

Not referring to hacks or enterprise stuff here, but a simple toggle.

 

[Boris Bronson]

Wait. So I’m safe from the bug that gives up my Apple ID info to apps? Or the Safari bug if I don’t side load? /S

Perhaps Apple’s argument might hold up better if they hadn’t completely taken their eye off the ball in terms of their software releases. Perhaps go back to worrying about that rather than labelling everyone a paedophile? Just a thought.

 

[Ethosik]

You DON’T have to side load anything. If someone does it and it ruins their phones that’s on them. I remember my old BlackBerry was fully customizable and could download apps and it made it unusable. I went to Apple and never looked back

If someone does it, and extracts the contact list and leads to more spam/scams, it will be bad. And yes this has happened on computer and I have actively stopped using some email accounts due to this happening. Yes I know how my email was "discovered" and I no longer give that family member my email address. But a phone number is much more difficult to change a lot of times. I have had 30 different email accounts.

 

[Ethosik]

So, hypothetically speaking.

My iPhone is Virgin Apple clean. ONLY iOS grade A+ primo Apple APP store approved and downloaded on my device.

Lets say someone within "my network" (basically contacts) side loads a malicious App/program.

The hackers then send me a text/phone call (NSO group Style) and that could would/could be enough for me to get infected? and all my data and device (microphone, camera etc.) would be in control of that hacker?

Or would I still need to answer that call, open that text (or accidentally touch the hyperlink) then I'd be screwed?

When there is a hole, it can be exploited. Currently there is no said hole available. Not saying this scenario WILL happen, but it CAN. This is what it means to deal with cyber security. You see it all the time on computer. Like log4j recently, attack caused it to do something it was not meant to do. Again, exploits a flaw.

 

[Ethosik]

Then you can choose to sideload or wait for a competitor to take its place. If the App Store is as compelling as you say it is for developers, it shouldn't take long for a gap in the market to be filled.

Look at PC for all the evidence you need. Steam is the largest digital platform on PC, yet Epic Games purchases exclusivity deals so its ONLY on the Epic Games Store.

 

[BreakYurAnkles]

When you guys say opens the door for infection....

does that mean when I'm done watching my "big boy" videos on my phone I have to get checked for STD's with my doctor?

Should I use protection?

What about a dental dam?

maybe Purell sanitizer will work? bleach?

I always brush my teeth afterwards

I seriously don't want to get any STD's guys!
we already have the pandemic and now Apple is releasing viruses too?

I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE ???

 

[Ethosik]

And even if you don't sideload and stick to only using Apple's app store, you're still exposed to security and privacy gaps and scam apps.

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I can literally spend all day posting all the stories about similar stuff.

Ah yes, the "its not 100% so lets just get rid of it!!!!" argument.

So opening up iOS will improve this.....how exactly?! It will be far far FAR worse.

 

[nebojsak]

You are missing my point. My choice of a locked down system ---IMPORTANT PART HERE--- THAT CANNOT BE OPENED....is now gone. Right now, you cannot side load on iOS with a simple toggle. THIS is why I chose iPhone to begin with. This is why I pay $300+ more on my phone vs a better Android phone for just this experience.

Again, read the important part --- CANNOT BE OPENED.

Now I suspect this is some smack addict logic, and that you're actually tempted to sideload, and want something to protect you from that. I have no other explanation for this.

There are iOS options that I don't even touch remotely. For instance, i have Background App Refresh off from the day one. But -following your logic- maybe that's not enough, and maybe I should demand from Apple to omit that option from the next release.