Uh-oh do I want to dip my toes in this black hole?

[Amethyst1]

IDE SSDs are more expensive and difficult to find.

And slow and possibly quirky. Not worth it IMO. mSATA plus adapter all the way.

As for the choice of OS, my 17" PB triple-boots (planning to add Linux and/or OpenBSD in the future):

1. Jaguar for the look-and-feel and the Classic environment (it's much better than Tiger's)
2. Tiger for the look-and-feel (I just love it) and speed
3. Leopard for modern-ness and compatibility

 

[1042686]

Yes, you do want to dip as long as you:

1.) If you are unmarried, you have beautiful spaces to artistically display your PowerPC macs and a camera to show them off here.
2.) If you are married, you have adequate closet or garage space (car trunk counts as well) to hide your PowerPC acquisitions and strategically rotate them in and out of your space as to not bring attention to the true girth of your collection, garnering the ire of your companion.

 

[eyoungren]

2.) If you are married, you have adequate closet or garage space (car trunk counts as well) to hide your PowerPC acquisitions and strategically rotate them in and out of your space as to not bring attention to the true girth of your collection, garnering the ire of your companion.

Oh, you are so blind!!!!

They know dude, exactly what and how many you have. Every time they see something new it gets catalogued in their brain. Guess when it is that we find out they know? When there's an argument and they pull it out as a trump card! Until then, they just hold on to it, waiting for that moment when they can get maximum impact from it!

 

[iluvmacs99]

Oh another thing I wanted to ask about, operating system. Which would you recommend?

I began using Apple in 2008 when Leopard ruled the Macs so I don't know much about previous versions. I'm thinking specifically about performance, battery life and online security – is any OS version prefer?

Leopard is basically the last PowerPC OS for the Powerbooks and is the most modern. The Leopard Webkit which is an enhanced Safari web browser is faster than TTF, but can be a bit buggy. Leopard Rebirth makes the Leopard GUI look like Sierra OS. Performance wise is fine on the last PB 15 @ 1.67Ghz and good with battery life. So if you don't need OS9 support, then Leopard is a fine choice. I have Tiger on my G5 and it was set up to support a few legacy OS9 apps I still sometimes use.

Unfortunately, with online security, Leopard is such an old OS that there are no more security updates issued for it. I wouldn't recommend doing anything that exposes your financial information as well as any of your personal information like your social security information etc and passwords. There is a limited way of using some sort of VPN with Leopard in public places, but personally I don't feel it's up to modern standards; not what you can get with OpenVPN.

Which is why when I surf in public places, I usually carry the 15" and my PC netbook which is very light. For basic surfing, the 15" Powerbook is fine, but for any secure transactions, I would use the modern PC with OpenVPN and high encryption to do it on. Most people would just use their phones anyhow.

 

[1042686]

Oh, you are so blind!!!!

They know dude, exactly what and how many you have. Every time they see something new it gets catalogued in their brain. Guess when it is that we find out she knows? When there's an argument and they pull it out as a trump card! Until then, they just hold on to it, waiting for that moment when they can get maximum impact from it!

Haha, I cant deny this. Within 15 minutes of bringing that grape imac home, she saw it - first words out of her mouth were while looking down her nose at me was "Are you going to sell that"?

Uhhh, yes of course, honey. It's uhh, highly collectible and only $15!

So, yes, my strategy while sound, has not evolved as my wife has evolved her understanding of said strategy. In otherwords, she's the modern human ever-evolving and I'm the weary neaderthal holding onto his computers for dear life.

Still, it was only $15. C'mon - I had to. The moral imperative was there. Y'all understand.

 

[Amethyst1]

Unfortunately, with online security, Leopard is such an old OS that there are no more security updates issued for it

IOW - if you truly care about online security, forget about Leopard and use Linux or OpenBSD and a current browser.

 

[eyoungren]

Haha, I cant deny this. Within 15 minutes of bringing that grape imac home, she saw it - first words out of her mouth were while looking down her nose at me was "Are you going to sell that"?

Uhhh, yes of course, honey. It's uhh, highly collectible and only $15!

So, yes, my strategy while sound, has not evolved as my wife has evolved her understanding of said strategy. In otherwords, she's the modern human ever-evolving and I'm the weary neaderthal holding onto his computers for dear life.

Still, it was only $15. C'mon - I had to. Y'all understand.

Yah know…MacRumors forum members are always sending me stuff. I let my wife know this so she's never surprised when she sees a package or a new Mac, or parts come into the house. She knows I have lots of nice friends on MacRumors - because I tell her about them.

I mean, it's not like I go out shopping for it, or anything like that. My friends just send me this stuff because they are really nice.

Most of the time it's exactly that.

I'm just saying…

 

[Hughmac]

Luckily I just tell my wife, sometimes I come out with some justification, and she says 'OK'

Cheers

Hugh

 

[eyoungren]

Luckily I just tell my wife, sometimes I come out with some justification, and she says 'OK'

Cheers

Hugh

I was incredibly lucky once and even more lucky to recognize the gift being presented.

Out of the blue she says to me one day "Your computers are to you like my purses are to me, aren't they?"

I wisely responded, "Yes, that's it exactly. That's exactly how it is."

I've never begrudged her the purses she wanted. One for every mood, outfit, occasion, etc. Now, she just rolls her eyes, but doesn't say anything.

 

[1042686]

The unspoken rule in our household is that (aside from network stuff) I keep my computer collection to my office and garage and we're usually ok. She noticed the grape imac because its a big *purple* CRT. I mean you have to be blind to not see that thing. lol

Anyhoo, whatevs it's the spice of life. As soon as I get a kids desk for my son, the sunburnt Bondi revb is ready to go in his bedroom and the purple imac will slide right into place.

 

[eyoungren]

The unspoken rule in our household is that (aside from network stuff) I keep my computer collection to my office and garage and we're usually ok. She noticed the grape imac because its a big *purple* CRT. I mean you have to be blind to not see that thing. lol

Anyhoo, whatevs it's the spice of life. As soon as I get a kids desk for my son, the sunburnt Bondi revb is ready to go in his bedroom and the purple imac will slide right into place.

Except for the fact that she ceded that one wall in the living room, I pretty much have the same agreement. It was that way before kids when we maintained our own rooms (in addition to the master). Whatever she does in her space is her business and vice-versa.

There's been a few times as well where the stuff I had came in handy because the daily drivers had issues or what-have-you and she appreciated that. Things have a tendency of working out and as long as my stuff isn't in her face or becomes an inconvenience to her, she really doesn't care.

 

[2984839]

The unspoken rule in our household is that (aside from network stuff) I keep my computer collection to my office and garage and we're usually ok. She noticed the grape imac because its a big *purple* CRT. I mean you have to be blind to not see that thing. lol

Anyhoo, whatevs it's the spice of life. As soon as I get a kids desk for my son, the sunburnt Bondi revb is ready to go in his bedroom and the purple imac will slide right into place.

When I look at all my network stuff I realize that A.) it's a good thing I'm single and B.) this might be why.

 

[pullman]

Oh nooooooo, I must resist

In a weak moment yesterday I pulled the trigger on a 15" DSLD for all of 6,000 Euro Cents. It's in ok shape except it needs a new battery, but we'll see when it arrives on Tuesday morning. Then we'll also see if I need to try another model...

Why limit yourself to just one? They're not that expensive so purchase one with a normal resolution screen, one with a high resolution screen, and maybe a smaller (15") / larger (17") than the other(s). Find which one works best for you and sell off the others.

Haha I'm already checking the Bay and other similar markets here in the Netherlands for interesting deals. There are so many cool PPC computers it's almost staggering.

My main passion is photography, analogue specifically, and I've got a large number of film cameras that I use regularly, not one single shelf queen. It's really wonderful to be able to try all the gear I lusted for years ago for almost nothing these days. The oldest camera I use is a Leica from 1932 and it ticks along nicely together with a few lenses of the same vintage. My wife is by now accustomed to this. Or at least, so she says haha...

Yes, you do want to dip as long as you:

1.) If you are unmarried, you have beautiful spaces to artistically display your PowerPC macs and a camera to show them off here.
2.) If you are married, you have adequate closet or garage space (car trunk counts as well) to hide your PowerPC acquisitions and strategically rotate them in and out of your space as to not bring attention to the true girth of your collection, garnering the ire of your companion.

Thank you for pointing out the security aspects @iluvmacs99 and @Amethyst1 – to be honest, this is the first time I've seriously considered Linux so I'm pretty sure I'll (at least) dual boot with that and something else.

I'm a bit confused though. When I read the various OS threads, it seems Puma, Jaguar and Panther don't work on the 15" DLSD, is that right?

Unfortunately, with online security, Leopard is such an old OS that there are no more security updates issued for it. I wouldn't recommend doing anything that exposes your financial information as well as any of your personal information like your social security information etc and passwords. There is a limited way of using some sort of VPN with Leopard in public places, but personally I don't feel it's up to modern standards; not what you can get with OpenVPN.

IOW - if you truly care about online security, forget about Leopard and use Linux or OpenBSD and a current browser.

 

[Amethyst1]

When I read the various OS threads, it seems Puma, Jaguar and Panther don't work on the 15" DLSD, is that right?

The DLSD will only run Tiger (needs to be 10.4.2 at least) and Leopard.

 

[bobesch]

Thank you so much, guys - reading this thread really made me chuckle and a good start into this beautiful saturday morning! 😄

As for the choice of a Powerbook I'd look for a 15"DLSD first. One can find them more often than the 17" models, same for replacement batteries and parts. And in case of a failing RAM-socket, you may put in a 2GB-brick into the remaining socket. They do not run as hot, as the inside crammed 12"PB (but you can also use G4FanControl to change the threshold for fan-activity). I'd choose an mSATA+mSATA-IDE-converter over a spinning drive, cause it's slightly faster, absolutely silent and sturdy and take some bumps, when on the go. Working under the hood is a snap, compared to the 12"PB. Like @Amethyst1 I also use more than one partition: one for Leopard, one for Tiger&Classic and a third one for data. And it's nice to have the PCMCIA-port for another two USB2-sockets or a card reader etc.
Technically the 17"DSDL is the same, but harder to find. Downsizing screen-res on my 17"silver MBP didn't mess up quality, but I don't know how it'll look like on the 17" PB DLSD (which are BTW really hard to find ...)
The 12" Book is really cute. That outweights the hassle, if you need to work inside (like @eyoungren said: a PITA - and in case you want to replace thermal-paste/pads take care of the screws, that hold the heatsink against the board since they like to break off the board and need to be resolderd or reglued. And you always have the thrill of removing two Fn-keys in order to access them screws, that hold the keyboard in place). After upgrading the 1,5GHz 12"PB with an mSATA&converter-board the internal temperature-management is close to breakdown. Factory-setting for the temperature-threshold of the the spinning-drive is at about 45°C, while the mSATA+Converter-combo sports about 60°C on my machine (even after replacing thermal-paste/pads - which maybe hasn't been not that professional on my side). So G4FanControl is mandatory if you don't wan't to have the feeling of a jet-engine sitting on your desk. With G4FanControl and an iLapStand (which otherwise also comes in pretty handy to tidy up your desk stuffing things below) I manage to keep temperatures at stady state about 60-65°C, when the little guy is on heavy duty. Missing keyboard-backlight, no PCMCIA-port and the need for a video-adapter for beamer or external monitor hasn't really been a matter to me so far - but sure, the keyboard-backligh is sometimes very helpful, especially if you run the screen very dim in dark environments and to extend battery-life.
Concerning differences in keyboard quality I haven't even noticed there is one ... maybe I'm a bit numb on my fingertips.
So the 15"DLSD would be my first choice. They are kind of indestructible IMHO. The one, that I use in first place, when it comes to PowerBooks, came to me in a really bruised and battered condition, drive needed to be fixed with workarounds and the keyboard is held together with sticky-tape ... I choosed to use it prior to the other-one I own, the "better" one, but even after 3y of intensive use it still just doesn't want to give up! and I enjoy every occasion I'm booting up this battered guy!

Cheers, have a nice weekend!

 

[bobesch]

In a weak moment yesterday I pulled the trigger on a 15" DSLD for all of 6,000 Euro Cents. It's in ok shape except it needs a new battery, but we'll see when it arrives on Tuesday morning. Then we'll also see if I need to try another model...

Oh, congrats! In the meantime when I wrote my last posting you were lucky to catch that 15"DSDL Book. Great!
While you're waiting for delivery you may have a look at MacintoshGarden to check out Tiger/Leopard/os9.22 and other software-gems ...
There are also some other great repositories for PPC Mac-software - I cannot recall their names and links out of my memory, since I've collected/downloaded all PPC-software some time ago and now have most of it saved on a drive.
I also gave Linux and OpenBSD a try, but I'm too unexperienced for both of them systems and couldn'd find any advantage compared to Tiger/Leopard except for some tinkering. (Edit: just reread @wicknix 's Lubuntu-thread that causes some tickling in my fingertips to give Linux another try ...)
So fine-tuned TenFourFox/TenFourFoxBox (there's either @eyoungren 's way for deeper insight or instant-karma), Webkit4Leopard, standard-Mail-App, @wicknix 's TenFourTube/TenFiveTube and @Dronecatcher 's knowledge of how to play video on PPC are the best of how to make the G4 book cope with current web/mail/streaming.

If you happen to prepare for DualBoot better start with Leopard in order to partition and prepare the drive, since Tiger/os9-drivers may cause problems, if you ever want to change partition-size, since a drive primarily partitioned with Tiger/os9-drivers might not allow repartitioning without erasing the partions (but certainly there are some tricks to get over this problem).

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write a reply to my questions Bob, I really appreciate it And thank you for all this info on OSes and software, too. I'm starting to botanise around the internet to find interesting apps. It's all very very exciting.

I'll start with Leopard simply because it is most familiar to me. It's already installed on the computer but I'd like to do a fresh install.

Then I'll look to add Tiger and give Linux a try too, to have something more modern for ze Internet. But I must admit all the Linux options are quite whelming, almost to the point of being overwhelming.

Oh, congrats! In the meantime when I wrote my last posting you were lucky to catch that 15"DSDL Book. Great!
While you're waiting for delivery you may have a look at MacintoshGarden to check out Tiger/Leopard/os9.22 and other software-gems ..
There are also some other great repositories for PPC Mac-software - I cannot recall their names and links out of my memory, since I've collected/downloaded all PPC-software some time ago and now have most of it saved on a drive.
I also gave Linux and OpenBSD a try, but I'm too unexperienced for both of them systems and couldn'd find any advantage compared to Tiger/Leopard except for some tinkering. (Edit: just reread @wicknix 's Lubuntu-thread that causes some tickling in my fingertips to give Linux another try ...)
So fine-tuned TenFourFox/TenFourFoxBox (there's either @eyoungren 's way for deeper insight or instant-karma), Webkit4Leopard, standard-Mail-App, @wicknix 's TenFourTube/TenFiveTube and @Dronecatcher 's knowledge of how to play video on PPC are the best of how to make the G4 book cope with current web/mail/streaming.

If you happen to prepare for DualBoot better start with Leopard in order to partition and prepare the drive, since Tiger/os9-drivers may cause problems, if you ever want to change partition-size, since a drive primarily partitioned with Tiger/os9-drivers might not allow repartitioning without erasing the partions (but certainly there are some tricks to get over this problem).

 

[Amethyst1]

But I must admit all the Linux options are quite whelming, almost to the point of being overwhelming.

I'd start with @wicknix Lubuntu remixes, they're the easiest to get started with. 12.04 is older but faster and more lightweight, 16.04 is newer.

Lubuntu 16.04 Remix (updated)

2023 update For anybody still using this (16.04 v2) i created a tutorial with some extra files to extend the life of it. Basically we change the sources.list to Debians (since Ubuntu's repo is dead) and make a few changes to allow packages to be updated and installable again. Download it here...

forums.macrumors.com

And if you need "apps" for Leopard...

The Leopard Thread

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard Supported hardware eMac iBook G4 iMac G4 iMac G5 iMac Core Duo iMac Core 2 Duo (excluding "Late 2009" and "Mid 2010" models) PowerBook G4 Power Mac G4 Power Mac G5 MacBook (pre-2010) MacBook Pro (pre-2010) MacBook Air (pre-2010) Mac Pro (pre-2010) Mac Mini (pre-2010)...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Hughmac]

I had @wicknix's 12.04 remix on my 15" PowerBook 1.67 until I totally borked it, but it ran pretty well.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much, super helpful. Lubuntu looks really cool. And seeing that Leopard thread brings back memories from when I switched to Mac.

I'd start with @wicknix Lubuntu remixes, they're the easiest to get started with. 12.04 is older but faster and more lightweight, 16.04 is newer.

Lubuntu 16.04 Remix (updated)

2023 update For anybody still using this (16.04 v2) i created a tutorial with some extra files to extend the life of it. Basically we change the sources.list to Debians (since Ubuntu's repo is dead) and make a few changes to allow packages to be updated and installable again. Download it here...

forums.macrumors.com

And if you need "apps" for Leopard...

The Leopard Thread

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard Supported hardware eMac iBook G4 iMac G4 iMac G5 iMac Core Duo iMac Core 2 Duo (excluding "Late 2009" and "Mid 2010" models) PowerBook G4 Power Mac G4 Power Mac G5 MacBook (pre-2010) MacBook Pro (pre-2010) MacBook Air (pre-2010) Mac Pro (pre-2010) Mac Mini (pre-2010)...

forums.macrumors.com

Uh-oh I hope I'll fare slightly better Hugh

I had @wicknix's 12.04 remix on my 15" PowerBook 1.67 until I totally borked it, but it ran pretty well.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[pullman]

I'm spending my time waiting for the mailman by looking at replacement batteries and have found these two from sellers here in the NL.

This one is 5200mAh and this one is 4400 mAh. They cost more or less the same so I'm drawn to the bigger one but will it work? Both are apparently for a1138.

And I'm looking at SSDs too. I've seen the 32GB Transcend IDE drive. It's obviously a small drive but would it run cooler than an SSD with mSata-IDE adapter?

 

[Amethyst1]

And I'm looking at SSDs too. I've seen the 32GB Transcend IDE drive.

I wouldn't go with that one tbh. It's from 2007 (!) afaics, and back then SSDs were susceptible to quirks. A modern mSATA in an adaptor will be much better.

 

[bobesch]

And I'm looking at SSDs too. I've seen the 32GB Transcend IDE drive. It's obviously a small drive but would it run cooler than an SSD with mSata-IDE adapter?

Like @Amethyst1 said, I'd also go for the mSATA&IDE-Converter solution.
But with 32GB you might run into lack of space. My Leopard-installation consumes 18GB for /Applications, 4,5GB for /System and 13GB for /Library.
There won't be any space place for a partition with Tiger/Classic or LubuntuPPC.

 

[Hughmac]

I have a 128GB mSATA in my PowerBook, and it has made a lot of difference in the speed of operation (Leopard). Not too difficult to install either if you go slowly and methodically

Cheers

Hugh

 

[pullman]

Excellente, mSATA it is. Actually I realised that I might have one already. A while back I found this one sitting in an enclosure. It could work, no? I must admit I find all the various SSD interfaces bewildering at best...