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I think that the Toshiba one is actually ugly, but its specs aren't too bad.

Now the Samsung - that is nice. It's sad they have to steal their ideas from Apple (i.e. direct rip-off of multi-touch track pad and keyboard), but they did design a nice looking piece of hardware there. The style looks fantastic. I would definitely check it out...

The Samsung Series 9 is attractive for sure, but under-spec and more expensive than the Air. Its screen resolution is quite a bit less, has a smaller SSD, lacks Thunderbolt & MagSafe power connector and runs Windows (of course). It is a tiny bit thinner at its thickest point, but comes nowhere near the taper point of .11 inch that the Air does.

Since the Air also has the advantage of MacOS X plus the ability to run Windows like any PC, why would anyone choose the Sammy with those limitations and a higher price? Sure does look good though.

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/laptops/NP900X3A-A03US

What do you mean by "track pad and keyboard rip-off"? Chiclet keyboard was introduced on laptops by Sony. Rectangular track-pad? It always was rectangular. Samsung's screen resolution is smaller indeed but LCD panel is brighter. It comes with 128 or 256GB SSDs just like MBA. Series 9 can have up to 8GB of RAM (twice as much as MBA). The only thing Thunderbolt is useful for is connecting to monitor. Series 9 has HDMI port which is probably more practical for that purpose. Series 9 comes with a LAN port (also a big plus). So, the comparison is not as one sided as you wanted to present it.
 
Yeah, Sony has made good-looking laptops for a long time, but, like you pointed out, their specs usually sucked air in one way or another. They further complicated things with horrible meaningless product names. The VAIO VGN-X505VP was one good example. No way could a potential customer wrap their mind around such a name. What happened to a company that once named their product a "Walkman" and people could ask for it by name?

I don't think Apple took a long time to match the Sony form factor, they just didn't want to make a portable computer that needed to be plugged in for most of the time it was being used. The original MBA met the desired form factor, but at a high cost and limited performance. By now, it has grown into being at an excellent price-point with much better specifications, while even shrinking more.

It's no wonder that the competitors are struggling to match Apple's form factor, specs, and price. Apple didn't get there overnight either. Playing catch up is a b*tch.

Correct me if i am wrong, but Walkman's had the exact same product naming. Its really not that big of a deal.
 
An easy way for the other manufacturers to compete with Apple and bring down the price of the machines is to start installing a good distro of Linux by default.

Make Windows a build to order option. The OEMs could include a dual boot option from the factory as well.

Two versions of Windows could be provided: a subsidized version of Windows that is infested with bloatware or a non-subsidized clean installation of Windows.

Then, users that need Windows for work can choose to have one of these variants of Windows installed. Masochists that just like to use Windows can choose to have the subsidized version installed.
 
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An easy way for the other manufacturers to compete with Apple and bring down the price of the machines is to start installing a good distro of Linux by default.
It's also a way to differentiate. PCs are commodities, in large part because they all run the same OS. Offering the security and simplicity of Ubuntu would be a big step forward over Windows.
 
I agree, ARM is too weak to run MOST desktop class software today. With plans for quad core ARM chips first half of next year and rapid iterations of mobile devices it can't be that far out. And also, in my opinion, the mass market doesn't rely on intense software. Production software will still rely on windows for several years but that will become more niche, aka "pc's are trucks."
For accessories I think people like accessories to match and will buy same brand as long as they don't feel locked in and are not grossly overpriced like the Asus example. Surely there is plenty of margin in Apple and HP's wireless keyboards.

There already is Quad-Core ARM, it was shown off in a 7inch Windows 8 Tablet, the same processor was also in the ultrathin laptop with Office open saying "This is Microsoft Office running on ARM!"

B.S. Sony's build quality is atrocious, they run extremely hot, and back when I was reselling they got the most complaints of ANY OEM for various failures. If that's "better" then please pass me whatever you're smoking.

Sony has a lower rate of failure than Apple, Sony comes in at number 3, Apple number 4.

As for complaining about certain Vaios overheating, remember when Apple first started putting iCore processors in their Macs? Chronic overheating issues not helped by Apple not allowing the fans to spin past a certain point because "Customers want a quiet laptop"
 
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AppleScruff1 said:
I'm hoping that all the other companies go out of business so only Apple will remain. I personally hope that one days soon everyone on earth will have an iPhone, iPad and a MBA. That would be so good!

Since they continue to make new and innovate products w no competition. I agree. They are the only company in tech who has proven over and over they don't need competition to deliver the goods
 
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Since they continue to make new and innovate products w no competition. I agree. They are the only company in tech who has proven over and over they don't need competition to deliver the goods

Finally someone who understands.
 
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divinox said:
I love how everybody assumes Apple products are over priced, right up until they try to make their own and then sit there scratching their heads going, "how the hell have they managed this?". Just look at what happened with the iPad, all the other companies ended up with tablets that were just as expensive and quite as good.
I think most people given the choice between a MacBook air and say toshibas version for (near enough) the same money, they would choose the MacBook Air every time.

Most people (really) would give up after 5 minutes of trying to find the start menu, and take the toshiba home with them thinking of how weird that other pc looked and behaved.

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this remains to be seen. unlike say HTC everyone one of motorola's phones is a new project with different CPU's, graphics, radio, etc. to make it cost a bit less they sell these overpriced accessories. like the Asus transformer and the $150 keyboard.

ARM is too weak to run real desktop software

W8 will run on ARM. Maybe youre just holding it wrong?

10.4.8 will run on Apple Tv. What's the performance like?!
 

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lilo777 said:
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...

As if Apple invented thin notebooks. It did not. Sony did it years before Apple and they do have a much better ultra portable laptop than Apple right now: VAIO Z is thinner, lighter and much more powerful than MBA.

Starting from
£ 1,434.00 inc. VAT
£ 1,195.00 ex. VAT
 
I always found it strange that PC makers couldn't get their stuff together. I mean, forget copying how the Air looks. How hard can it be to design a computer that isn't a POS (not plastic, not a two tone chassis that breaks, flexy keyboard, nice innards and a CLEAN windows install with all the appropriate drivers.) Then release all the drivers for that models through your own website/software update app.

Sounds like a plan rip off of Apple, but seriously, its common sense (and why I switched to Apple in the first place).

Its almost like PC makers have been designing laptops by picking components out of a book, making an ugly as sin chassis from the 90s, then just installing a bloatware laden OS on it and leaving consumers (like Mom) to fend for themselves.

Do they think consumers want a weird looking laptop that looks like a business machine, a painted toy, or leds? A laptop with desktop and start menu already filled with many confusing and often useless applications? Does anyone use Bonzi Buddy?

Or what happens to great ideas? Why was the courier killed? Why won't Windows and OEMs just start clean, trash legacy support and streamline their OS by not shipping with a gajillion drivers? Maybe it could just download the ones it needs while installing. Or they could try making their utilities much less confusing. OEMs and Windows need the balls to make a fresh start. Apple makes great products, but there is room for great windows products too.

I would be fine if they somehow realized that putting the touchpad off-center is not exactly comfortable.

Same for the keyboard.

Who uses the numpad anyhow?

And, maybe, just maybe, if they tried to put just a bit of care in the design. Like, few lines or simple shapes instead of a nightmare out of a discarded prototype for a Star Trek prop (of course, I have nothing against a colorful, pretty design if you can pull it off - original iBook anyone?).
 
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10.4.8 will run on Apple Tv. What's the performance like?!

hard to tell, but if you ask me: it will perform just fine.
 
But Linus is so simple for Grandma and Grandpa!
My 80 year old grandfather has had no trouble with it.

Looks like a lot of people here in this Apple-centric forum haven't seen Ubuntu since before 2004. ;)

I'm not saying it's better than OS X, but compared to Windows it's a no-brainer for those who aren't entrenched with MS-only apps.
 
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Starting from
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£*1,195.00 ex. VAT

Z is a better laptop in every way so of course its more expensive. You get what you pay for and carbon fiber isn't cheap.
 
But Linus is so simple for Grandma and Grandpa!
Hello?
Linux is a kernel, you see.

Just like Mach.

Grandma and grandpa can't tell the difference, you need a degree in CS to read the code and understand it (yawn).


Linux is a kernel, and on top of it + a BSD subsystems operating systems are built.


Some obscure and geeky, like Gentoo.

Some perfectly usable by any moron to do everyday tasks, like Ubuntu.



Threads like this really make me want to get a $200 crapbook and install Ubuntu on top of it just to piss off those who still think that PC unices are for hobbyists only - hey, Mac OS X proved the opposite some TEN years ago.

Looks like a lot of people here in this Apple-centric forum haven't seen Ubuntu since before 2004.

Let's just hope they don't decide to check out the 11.10 beta1 for change
 
Yes, I remember those Sony's. The nice thing was their form factor. The bad thing was the price and the specs. This Vaio had a 1.1GHz ULV Pentium M running off a 400 MHz bus. 512MB DDR RAM which was not expandable. Video was a Intel 855GM integrated chipset driving a 10.6" 1024x768 screen. Storage was a 1.8 inch hard drive. No integrated WiFi. Ethernet dongle. Two hour battery. $3,700.

LOL.

I don't know how bad this was back in 2004. Sure, it looks bad now.

So how are people going to think about the current Air in say 2018?
 
First: To each his own. I actually do not find the MBA design that attractive. Especially not the black border-thing on the bezel.

Second: You do know that the the aluminium/black look has existed in laptops for like, ten years - right? As for the track-pad, ill respond in Apple-fan fashion: Why didnt Apple patent it? Dont tell me? They didnt invent it? Ouch...

Third: I think id take windows over osx pretty much everyday, if the choice was only up to me (which it really isnt).

Fourth: When you say: "Ability to run windows like any pc" you're factoring in the cost of buying a windows license, right? Also, out of curiosity - cant pc's run osx nowadays anyway?

Fifth: people were talking about design, not speccs or price. these are, of course, interesting from a consumer point of view, but not the object for discussion.

/D.

----------



+1

1st: Agreed. To each his own. I prefer the design of the Air. It is aesthetically pleasing to many, but as a point of fact, it is the most streamlined and there are no bulky or protruding blocky parts. Reminds me of sleek aircraft.

2nd: Various looks have been around for years, yes, what's your point? Did you not notice I was complimenting Samsung on the series 9 look?

I didn't bring up a discussion about inventions or patents - I just made a statement about who did what first, and who's doing the rip-off - and everyone knows it.

The fact remains that Apple was the first to use an "oversized" "buttonless" glass multi-touch trackpad, and now others are copying them. End of story.

3rd: Some people take Windows over MacOS. Having used both for years, I still don't understand that, but whatever floats your boat.

4th: No I'm not. And it's funny too, cause if PC mfgs wanted to reduce costs, they'd ship with Linux.

No, PCs can't just run MacOS X nowadays. You can create a "Hackintosh" but good luck getting support for Mom with that setup.

5th: People have been talking about design, price and spec as objects of the discussion. I guess you haven't been paying attention.
 
What do you mean by "track pad and keyboard rip-off"? Chiclet keyboard was introduced on laptops by Sony. Rectangular track-pad? It always was rectangular. .

Which ultrathin before MacBook Pro/Air had this combination of chiclet keyboard and large trackpad that makes these Ultrabooks similar to MBA as seen in the picture below? (From thisismynext.com)

ultrabooks-014.jpg


For contrast, here are some of the Sony laptops that use chiclet keyboards:

chiclet-keyboard.jpg


coolest-latest-new-best-top-fun-high-tech-electronic-gadgets-52-300x224.jpg


sony-vaio-x-series-chiclet-keyboard.jpg


sony-vaio-f-series.jpg


As unproductive as this "who copied who" pissing match is, it's pretty hard to deny the Ultrabook makers are at least very closely mimicking the style trend set by Apple.
 
An easy way for the other manufacturers to compete with Apple and bring down the price of the machines is to start installing a good distro of Linux by default.
Linux on the desktop is a failure.

Remember, Dell and others have offered Linux as an alternate operating system and they have largely discontinued doing so because of poor reception.

Same thing with netbooks. The original netbooks were 7" models running Linux. Consumers disliked the form factor as well as the operating system. Today, it is difficult to purchase a netbook with a screen smaller than 10" and almost all of them feature Windows, not Linux.
 
Linux on the desktop is a failure.

Remember, Dell and others have offered Linux as an alternate operating system and they have largely discontinued doing so because of poor reception.

Same thing with netbooks. The original netbooks were 7" models running Linux. Consumers disliked the form factor as well as the operating system. Today, it is difficult to purchase a netbook with a screen smaller than 10" and almost all of them feature Windows, not Linux.

Almost all netbooks feature both, actually.
For example, the HP minis boot into a media center/appliance-style interface that boots in a few seconds and plays stuff and lets you surf the web.

You can then choose to boot into Windows 7 if you feel like it.

Oh, of course the media center shell runs on top of a Linux kernel (and sucks balls, but that's not the point).

Because, once again, Linux is a kernel.

How can it be "a failure on the desktop" if it does not offer any kind of user interface?

You have to talk about operating systems, not kernels.

Recent Ubuntus, for example, are much closer to a Mac than to Slackware or Fedora.

Is Ubuntu gaining market share?
At an impressive pace, actually!

And does it matter?
No.

The only thing that matters is: is it good for you?
 
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