Unauthorized App Store Cydia Sues Apple for Anticompetitive Behavior

[cupcakes2000]

1. Cydia doesn't offer pirated software. A user has to take the step of adding an unofficial illegal repository. By your logic, Chrome is responsible for piracy because you can point it to The Pirate Bay.
2. The only reason piracy is even possible on Cydia is that Apple forces it to be! By refusing to sign Cydia, Apple makes jailbreaking a prerequisite to install Cydia. If Apple allowed other app stores and opened up a means for third party software to install apps, you wouldn't be able to pirate on Cydia.

But keep drinking the kool-aid, for whatever reason you do.

So.... Apple sign cydia and then it still gets regulated by my Apple? So what would the point be?

It's YOUR device. This would be like Ford telling you what you can and cannot put in, or on, your car. Sure, it's Ford's "platform" but......

A car is not a phone nor a computing platform.

"It's Apple's platform, they can do whatever they want."

OK, how comfortable are you with:

"It's Microsoft's OS, they can bundle or ban whatever software they want."

"It's Google's search engine, they can sort results however they want."

"You bought Comcast internet service; they can include whichever websites they want you to access."

Pretty’s sure all of those companies already do all that, but I don’t know what Comcast is.

What your hypothetical is missing is that in reality there are thousands of other flea markets to shop at besides yours. With the smartphone scenario there are only two “flea markets”, iOS and Android. A duopoly is subject to anti-trust laws as well, not just monopolies. Additionally, in your example all of the land (phones) is already owned by Apple and Google so there’s nowhere else available for people to sell their wares (apps).

They might be next door, but they’re not on his plot of land.

 

[AZMecha]

1. Cydia doesn't offer pirated software. A user has to take the step of adding an unofficial illegal repository. By your logic, Chrome is responsible for piracy because you can point it to The Pirate Bay.
2. The only reason piracy is even possible on Cydia is that Apple forces it to be! By refusing to sign Cydia, Apple makes jailbreaking a prerequisite to install Cydia. If Apple allowed other app stores and opened up a means for third party software to install apps, you wouldn't be able to pirate on Cydia.

But keep drinking the kool-aid, for whatever reason you do.

Oh Sure an why not let the unscrupulous devs, have access to your Wallet App and or contacts.

if they want to play and have access to Apple customers they should follow the Rules.. Plain & simple....

You get hacked directly or theft of your financial information they you want to blame & sue Apple. Get the Outta here with this!!!

 

[Septembersrain]

Cydia isn't just for pirated apps. I think it's time that people be allowed to jailbreak without Apple condemning you. If you break a screen, you shouldn't be told you can't get it fixed because you wanted to jailbreak. Battery replacement shouldn't come with the requirement that your iOS be untouched.

If Apple wanted us to just rent these devices, they should tell us. Yes, it's their software but if a jailbreak mistake isn't causing the problem with the customer, why are they going to deny people who pay for AppleCare+ any repairs?

It's already penalizing you if you use an unauthorized shop, so how isn't this an unfair monopoly?

On that note: Android manufacturers locking down bootloaders makes me just as pissed.

 

[jimbobb24]

Doesn’t matter. Anti-trust law is extremely explicit. You cannot prevent competitors from your own market, IF you have substantial marketshare.

What’s the market? Software. Phones. Apple is a small player in both these markets. Oh - you think the “market” is apps running on Apple iPhones? Well...than prepared for a future in which the Switch needs to boot PS4 and iPhone games by default. Good luck with that. Also CD players need to play 8-tracks. Or else MONOPOLY.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

The only person that can do that to your phone is you lol. It's not like Cydia is going to be magically installed on your phone.

If that were only true.
Especially nowadays with things like automations and shortcuts, plus the gullibility of some people.
All you need to do is find some tech illiterate googling ”get free movies,” and they click a link that downloads an automation to their phone.
So they click to run it, thinking that they’re going to get a free movie or something. And then, The automation runs, installs some third-party app store on their phone, downloads some suspicious app from the App Store, that app gets access to their Apple Pay information, their emails, their photo library, their microphone, the camera, their location, and now their security has been completely breached.
The second that Apple opens the iPhone operating system anymore than it already is, the quicker and quicker it can become insecure.

 

[jimbobb24]

I'm a robot, I will obey.....

In any other walk of life you know this would be absolutely ridiculous:

LG only allow me to watch approved shows on my LG TV - ridiculous​

Ford decide where I drive my car -ridiculous​

......​

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...wait until MacOS gets locked down the same way​

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If either of those companies did that they wouldn’t sell a thing. Apples walled garden is very popular. Maybe....they are not the same and consumers on average can tell the difference between you cannot drive anywhere and there is only one store to buy software for your phone.

 

[hot-gril]

Freeman claims that the risks of jailbreaking are "overblown" and are similar to downloading software from a PC. "Morally speaking, it's your phone and you should be able to do whatever you want with it," he said. The lawsuit claims that Apple used "coercive" terms to prevent customers from using Cydia, and as security ramped up, Cydia's business waned.

Yeah, people can do anything they want with their phones, including hacking them to run Cydia. Seems they don't want to. Maybe he's confusing what people want with what *he* wants.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Running unsigned apps without having them tethered to a disposable Apple Developer Account: sure, but makes everything much more insecure for other users.

• Use older versions of existing apps, assuming you’ve retained the .ipa: and again, expose yourself to possible security breaches in those older versions.
• Old Music.app without the AM tabs and other visual regressions if you’re not an AM subscriber: well, seeing as Apple retains the rights to every single version of the music or iPod app that ships or has shipped with every iPhone, if a third-party company was offering you a version of that older app, that’s technically illegal. That’s called copyright infringement, and that is also technically piracy. That’s no different than me taking a version of final cut pro, burning it to a CD, and then selling it on a street corner for 20 bucks.
• Old Fantastical.app is nice, for example.
• Location spoofing. You can already do this with a VPN.
• Fortnite.app (probably): if epic games allowed it, and if they didn’t, it would technically be copyright infringement and piracy.
• Recording phone conversations. that’s illegal in a lot of states, not to mention countries.
• Universal Picture-in-Picture. that’s not an Apple thing, that’s a developer thing. If Apple made it possible to hack an iPhone to use YouTube with PIP, Google could have a legal challenge about that.
• Removal of the ‘Widgetsmith’ NSLabel from widgets.

OH BUT PIRACY!! 😱 Spare me your peals.

i’m sorry, but a huge majority of all of your examples are technically examples of piracy, and could put apple in more legal trouble than they’re already in.

 

[jonblatho]

I for one would hate to have my phone open to the cesspool of malware and piracy app repos on Cydia.

Then…don’t install Cydia?

 

[prasand]

read the title and immediately came to the forum. 🤣

Read the article here, and since Cydia was first they might have something. It’s still funny though. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Here we go again with this.

Apple should win this. Not sure they will.

Apple's platforms come with well-disclosed caveats.

If you don't want them, don't use an Apple device.

Morality or opinion doesn't come into play here, because ultimately the customer is in control.

 

[techwhiz]

It's Apple's platform. What do these people not understand?

So Apple owns your phone or do you?
Apple can decide what you can run on your phone and when.
Would you ever accept a desktop PC when're the vendor told you specifically you cannily get your software through that vendor and that vendor alone?
Even if you have to sign a disclaimer, it should be possible to use software not approved by Apple.

Main reason I won't buy an iPhone. You don't own the phone. You have paid Apple to use the phone until Apple says you can't.

 

[sdreamer07]

Would be awesome to just see Apple say, "yup, we're done with phones! No more monopoly since we're no longer in the game! We make hand over fist on everything else now. Was never a monopoly in the first place since we were never the majority ecosystem." Leaves the phones locked and walks away. One year later rereleases a new iphone just to flip off everyone suing them, lol. Seriously though, I moved to iPhone from a PC and Android years ago due to the instability of it being open. I don't want that on iOS.

 

[hot-gril]

It's YOUR device. This would be like Ford telling you what you can and cannot put in, or on, your car. Sure, it's Ford's "platform" but......

They do. They say what kind of fuel and parts to put in, and I can ignore that advice. Newer Fords, like all other cars, have tons of electronics that are locked down and difficult to change, unlike my Crown Vic. Ford has no legal authority preventing you from messing with that stuff, but they make it difficult. Same with the iPhone.

 

[EarthKidk]

I don't agree with Lydia because the whole thing is so stupid. Lydia is already illegal from the first place and to compete with apple App Store that is out of the question. apple build everything and now they want to slip in and take advantage from apple and the consumers? I don't think so! you didn't do anything but although you want to make money. if you so good why don't you go make or develop phone and devices with the apps and open your own Cydia store then that call competing with apple. don't come and take everything and call that competing. I hate people that think we're stupid and they only use us to their advantage. I hope the judge would throw out the case, for one thing is too long, and second they were working on something illegal to begin with so no argument should be make then.

 

[sdreamer07]

So Apple owns your phone or do you?
Apple can decide what you can run on your phone and when.
Would you ever accept a desktop PC when're the vendor told you specifically you cannily get your software through that vendor and that vendor alone?
Even if you have to sign a disclaimer, it should be possible to use software not approved by Apple.

Main reason I won't buy an iPhone. You don't own the phone. You have paid Apple to use the phone until Apple says you can't.

That's the same for 95% of the stuff we "buy" these days. It's all licenses to use, not really to own.

 

[hot-gril]

So Apple owns your phone or do you?
Apple can decide what you can run on your phone and when.
Would you ever accept a desktop PC when're the vendor told you specifically you cannily get your software through that vendor and that vendor alone?
Even if you have to sign a disclaimer, it should be possible to use software not approved by Apple.

Main reason I won't buy an iPhone. You don't own the phone. You have paid Apple to use the phone until Apple says you can't.

You own it. You don't own Apple and can't tell them how to design the phone. If they don't make it customizable, and you want it to be, you can just buy something else like you already did. Personally idc and buy the iPhone anyway.

 

[techwhiz]

I can agree with you, but also iPhones have arguably more sensitive data on them. Apple wallet, health data, etc etc. I can see why it’s more strict.

Incorrect.
My finances and more sensitive data lives on my computer than on my phone.

 

[quietstormSD]

New in iOS 14: Themes and tweaks!

 

[hot-gril]

I can only imagine the level of outrage if Microsoft tried locking down Windows in a similar manner. So I don't agree with your logic there.

MacOS isn't locked to the Mac App Store. Why would iOS need to be? It's only because Apple wants the control.

Yet there's no outrage here because anyone who has a problem with it is on Windows and Android already. So what's the problem? We have our choices, Apple et al have theirs.

 

[redmac]

Doesn’t matter. Anti-trust law is extremely explicit. You cannot prevent competitors from your own market, IF you have substantial marketshare.

This is either utter ignorance or a blatant lie. No anti-trust law describes monopoly as "substantial marketshare". A company can't be a monopoly if it doesn't have 50%+ market share. Stop spreading disinformation.

 

[theotherphil]

It’s my phone. What do you not understand?

Correct, but it’s Apple’s software that’s running on the device. You agree to licence this software and abide by the terms When you turn it on for the first time. If you don’t agree to the terms, return it to Apple and buy a phone from a manufacturer that has more agreeable terms...hint: you licence the software on Every phone.

Contrary to what people believe, you can install whatever operating system you like on your phone, Apple isn’t obligated to make it easy for you however.

 

[techwhiz]

I own a plot of land. I left it unused for a few years.

Then one day I decided to build a flea market on my plot of land.

Vendors would be selling inside my flea market whatever stuff they want (as long as I agree as I don't want dildos or drugs in my flea market!) in exchange of a rent to get a both in MY flea market on MY plot of land.

Then one day a guy named Cydia tells me he's going to sue me for having a monopoly of flea market on my own plot of land because he thinks he should have a right to build his own flea market (where he would let vendors sell dildos and drugs) on MY own plot of land.

Can you imagine if we were living in this kind of world??

This is not a true analogy.
A better analogy is that Person 1 builds a widget.
Another guy; Person 2 builds a store and sells widget enhancements.

Person 1 then builds a widget enhancement store in competition to Person 2.
Person 1 then makes it impossible to install widget enhancements from Person 2's store on the widget.
Person 1 even modifies his widget to make it incompatible with the widget enhancements from Person 2's store in an ongoing basis. Person 2's enhancement store shrivels to almost nothing.

The definition of anti competitive behavior.
Now sub Apple for Person 1 and Cyndia for Person 2.

 

[Slarti.BartFast]

If you want a phone that lets you install apps from anywhere, you should have bought a different phone. What do you not understand?

Why ? A phone is simply a computer, doesn't matter if it's Apple or Google or Windows or Jolla or Sony or Xbox, all these app stores SHOULD be made to allow the user to download and install software from wherever they want.

The whole 'buying in to an ecosystem' is bad for all of us, don't get me wrong, if you want to only download from the official app store - fine, but it should be mandatory that you can write your or own software or download from elsewhere, even install a new OS should you rather do that than have to dispose of your phone when it's no longer supported.

 

[techwhiz]

Cydia isn't just for pirated apps. I think it's time that people be allowed to jailbreak without Apple condemning you. If you break a screen, you shouldn't be told you can't get it fixed because you wanted to jailbreak. Battery replacement shouldn't come with the requirement that your iOS be untouched.

If Apple wanted us to just rent these devices, they should tell us. Yes, it's their software but if a jailbreak mistake isn't causing the problem with the customer, why are they going to deny people who pay for AppleCare+ any repairs?

It's already penalizing you if you use an unauthorized shop, so how isn't this an unfair monopoly?

On that note: Android manufacturers locking down bootloaders makes me just as pissed.

But at least a locked bootloader does not prevent you from running apps available outside the Play Store.