Undwhelming Blackberry TORCH spells DOOM FOR RIM

[samcraig]

The owner of the business I work for has an iPhone. He could have a BB but he has iPhone. And the touchscreen keyboard is faster than any mini button keyboard. I have written whole college essays in landscape mode.

The only people who have BB got it for free from their employer and it would make no sense to pay for a personal one.

Not many companies and positions in our society yield such benefits as a company phone. Its very very rare.

When I say corporate types I mean "types" not just CEOs. And most corporate types switched to iPhone a year and a half ago.

1. You are the exception to the rule. A whole college essay on the iPhone? errr ok. Again exception. You wouldn't find any exec that I know of typing anything than a few short sentences on EITHER a blackberry OR an iPhone. Mobile computing for most of the people I know in the business world are short(er) replies when someone can't wait or needs to respond immediately to an email vs replying at their desk. Are there EXCEPTIONS - yes. But generally - mobile phone email on any device isn't "fun" for long replies.

2. False. I, and many of my friends and colleagues had blackberries for several years while other smartphones including the iPhone were available.

And since your "most corporate types" is a fact completely pulled out of the air or some body part there's no point in discussing it.

I don't know why people are so determined in forcing issues where there are none. The iPhone is a great phone. The blackberry is also a great phone. Both have their audience. Both have marketshare and both are very successful now and will be in the future.

A phone doesn't have to "win" or even be better for that matter to succeed.

 

[CrzyCanuck72]

Apple could take a few hints from the BlackBerry... notification LED, menubar notification icons, custom notification tones, autotext (eg. I type "sig" and it automatically fills in my full work signature), full background processing, app integration into the OS (eg. I can send a picture to facebook/twitter without being in the app), dialing from the homescreen, and of course, BBM.

All reasons I love my BlackBerry and won't be switching back to the iPhone.

 

[Fabienne]

Hate to break it to you but BB is still the most popular PDA device for business by a looooooong shot. I can't imagine too many CEO or CFO business leaders sitting down to type out emails and messages on their iPod.....er I mean iPhone.

Most CEO's I know are at their technical limit sending and receiving e-mails, they have their secretaries and kids sync their BB's, and probably force the IT department to put songs on it and install weather and stock apps.

 

[samcraig]

Most CEO's I know are at their technical limit sending and receiving e-mails, they have their secretaries and kids sync their BB's, and probably force the IT department to put songs on it and install weather and stock apps.

Ok. I'll bite. How many CEOs do you actually know. As in - know well enough to know their phone habits and what they do or don't do. Sincerely - how many make up your sample size and your statement/generalization?

 

[aohus]

False, I'm 16 and I hate blackberry keyboards! The keys are too tiny, the only exception is the blackberry pearl. The only reason I used to like blackberries were because of the looks. But after all my blackberrys and phones in general I'll defiantly stick with iPhones

you're probably not wearing nails. ask older girls, they'll hate on touchscreens on and on.

 

[3lionsbecks]

Most CEO's I know are at their technical limit sending and receiving e-mails, they have their secretaries and kids sync their BB's, and probably force the IT department to put songs on it and install weather and stock apps.

Ha ha, I love this thread.

I think that you may be generalizing with your description of CEOs. It may actually depend on the type of business they are a CEO of.

Where I am from is a major technology based area where we have Canadian headquarters for RIM, Google, Open Text, SandVine among many other high tech companies and major insurance companies like Sunlife and Manulife.

I doubt that the majority of the CEOs and CFOs in any of these companies are tech-handicapped since they are major IT companies.

 

[3lionsbecks]

And the touchscreen keyboard is faster than any mini button keyboard. I have written whole college essays in landscape mode. .

You're rocked in the head.

I love my iPod Touch and iPad but there is no way I'd write a paper on anything but my MBP or even better my iMac.

If you think typing on a iPhone is faster than on a BB then you really haven't used the BB keyboard at all.

I've been using my iPad for all of these posts so i do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

1. You are the exception to the rule. A whole college essay on the iPhone? errr ok. Again exception. You wouldn't find any exec that I know of typing anything than a few short sentences on EITHER a blackberry OR an iPhone. Mobile computing for most of the people I know in the business world are short(er) replies when someone can't wait or needs to respond immediately to an email vs replying at their desk. Are there EXCEPTIONS - yes. But generally - mobile phone email on any device isn't "fun" for long replies.

2. False. I, and many of my friends and colleagues had blackberries for several years while other smartphones including the iPhone were available.

And since your "most corporate types" is a fact completely pulled out of the air or some body part there's no point in discussing it.

I don't know why people are so determined in forcing issues where there are none. The iPhone is a great phone. The blackberry is also a great phone. Both have their audience. Both have marketshare and both are very successful now and will be in the future.

A phone doesn't have to "win" or even be better for that matter to succeed.

1. No I am not the exception. Due to your your response for #2 you are clearly outdated. Your opinions seem so 2008. Blackberry was alive and well back then. But now it's Apple vs Google and RIM is RIP. Back then people were still warming up to the idea but now all the wealthiest members of our society ubiquitously choose iPhone. CEO or not.

1. (part two) Actually the element that is lost upon the uninitiated is that iPhone has predictive input so even if I don't hit the right button, it still guesstimates. The benefit of this comes when you want to go really fast, as fast as you can think. You can type blazingly fast even as you make mistakes because the dictionary has you covered. With real keyboards, even if they have spell checkers, you have to actually PRESS the right keys, making sure to avoid the wrong ones. That means you cant cruise as fast on real keyboards compared to the iPhone where you just glide around super fast. Trust me Ive had em all mastered, Treos, BBerrys, even the Sidekick. --And none are as fast as the iPhone once you get it.

2. So?

You guys are the exception to the rule.

3. The fact that they both have market shares does not change the fact that iPhone is growing every year and RIM is disappearing.

Again, this isn't 2008 and you seem to be behind the times. Technology and culture evolve at a very constant and rapid pace. We are simply discussing this phenomena and cultural trends.

 

[samcraig]

1. No I am not the exception. ...

I admire your youthful pluckiness. But you're wrong on many levels. No need to argue back and forth about it either.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

I admire your youthful pluckiness. But you're wrong on many levels. No need to argue back and forth about it either.

Nice try but you lost.

 

[3lionsbecks]

Nice try but you lost.

Ha Ha. Fail post for sure.

 

[Savor]

I will stand by what I said before, RIM and Blackberries are only around because of secure push-email that's reliable.

Agreed.

And to many users, that is the ONE reason and the ONE reason alone to stay with them. Reliable push-email. They really don't need anything else except a reliable phone, QWERTY, and checking email. The rest is just gravy.

Same reasons why there isn't just ONE competitor in the auto industry. People look for certain things in cars. Some will buy it full-loaded, some will rather get it bare bones.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Ha Ha. Fail post for sure.

failblog dot oargh

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Agreed.

And to many users, that is the ONE reason and the ONE reason alone to stay with them. Reliable push-email. They really don't need anything else except a reliable phone, QWERTY, and checking email. The rest is just gravy.

Same reasons why there isn't just ONE competitor in the auto industry. People look for certain things in cars. Some will buy it full-loaded, some will rather get it bare bones.

Push GMAIL on iPhone > Push mail on BB

 

[samcraig]

Nice try but you lost.

Proof of your youth (and/or ego) is the needing to "win"

You have your opinion which I disagree with and instead of wanting to go back and forth where you'll neither convince me your right nor me convince you that I'm right, I've chosen to just it go. There's no "win" scenario.

 

[samcraig]

Push GMAIL on iPhone > Push mail on BB

you missed the RELIABLE aspect. When I had a blackberry I had far more reliable push than I have ever EVER had on my 3GS or 4.

And that was the experience of many of my colleagues. And given that I had (at the time) at least 5 email accounts and over 2000 emails going in and out a DAY - reliability - since I worked for a NEWS organization was critical.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Proof of your youth (and/or ego) is the needing to "win"

You have your opinion which I disagree with and instead of wanting to go back and forth where you'll neither convince me your right nor me convince you that I'm right, I've chosen to just it go. There's no "win" scenario.

Your aloof/judgmental attitude is proof of your insecure need to be righteous.

If you didn't want to "win," then why do you keep trying to do so by taking the "higher road" and being the "bigger man" and "agreeing to disagree" instead of using sound reasoning and critical thinking to reasonably debate an inconsequential topic for the sake of interest like reasonable people with varying viewpoints? We're not animals and nobody insulted anyone. (Besides passive-aggressively)

 

[samcraig]

Your aloof/judgmental attitude is proof of your insecure need to be righteous.

If you didn't want to "win," then why do you keep trying to do so by taking the "higher road" and being the "bigger man" and "agreeing to disagree" instead of using sound reasoning and critical thinking to reasonably debate an inconsequential topic for the sake of interest like reasonable people with varying viewpoints? We're not animals and nobody insulted anyone. (Besides passive-aggressively)

Take a look at what you wrote. How would I "win" by walking away from the discussion? How would that display a desire to win. The logic is faulty at best.

And what do you think I have to be insecure about? My viewpoint? No - I'm perfectly secure on that - but thanks for the dime store psychoanalysis LOL

 

[Savor]

It is a step up to the Storm at least.

One thing people forget about RiM is that BlackBerries can be found in multiple carriers. It has been that way well before Android.

Bold, Curve, Pearl, Storm, Torch, Tour, etc.

Apple fanboys rag on all the many Androids coming out, what about the multiple variations of a BlackBerry for each major carrier?

Building solid relationships with other carriers is a good thing.

I don't understand why the rest of the competition have to be the "villains" and Apple is sacred cow. It is not a horse race. Multiple players can survive in this industry. Apple dominates in software, but there are people who want to see internal hardware keep improving...

Apple WILL NEVER dominate in cell phone sales like what Microsoft Windows did in the 1990's, what Nintendo did to home consoles in the 1980's, or what Apple has done with the mp3 player market in the early 2000's. You will never see a 90% dominance. The industry has too many segments and too fickle.

Look at the HTC Glacier. If we don't get dual-cores as soon as this year, how long will Apple make a move to match those speeds if they become too complacent? It took Apple about four generations to add a respectable camera on their phone. Everybody on top always needs a kick in the ass. A wake-up call.

 

[MacModMachine]

I'm not a teenage girl (33 yr old male) but I have to say that BBM is superior to any other instant messaging program I've ever used.

Since 90% of my friends and family have BB using BBM is much easier than texting. Of course, most of my friends/family have BB because they have jobs and they get them through that.

I'm not sure that the iPhone is really catching on outside the 15yr - 25yr old demographic at this point, at least where I'm from.

(I'm from the same city as RIM head quarters and where BB was invented btw.....)

well here is a reason why,

i go on a camping trip with my family, i take a bunch of pictures with my phone and bring them home, uploading them to my pc is super easy , i can share them with family almost instantly with my mobile me.
iphone is not all about texting, i think BBM has nothing on iphones normal text message handling.

blackberry cant do that....

 

[jps1012]

I had a blackberry bold before the iphone 4. IMO Blackberry has better receptions, much easier to type on and bbm. The Iphone smokes blackberry in everything else. For me its not even close how much more i like my iphone.

 

[samcraig]

well here is a reason why,

i go on a camping trip with my family, i take a bunch of pictures with my phone and bring them home, uploading them to my pc is super easy , i can share them with family almost instantly with my mobile me.
iphone is not all about texting, i think BBM has nothing on iphones normal text message handling.

blackberry cant do that....

Question: How long did BB have message threading. How long did it take Apple to adopt it? And WHY do you think they adopted it.

There's no pissing match to be had here. Both the iPhone and Blackberry are in very healthy business "places" catering to exactly the market they need to. And both will survive and neither will "kill" the other.

 

[nidserz]

@MacModMachine, a BlackBerry can easily do that. Can connect to my MacBook and it appears like an SD card. Can easily download all the photos to my MacBook. Have you ever used a BlackBerry? Also, the iPhone 4 just got flash; BB cameras are perfectly acceptable for taking photos.

Of course, we are at a pro-Apple website and the forums will favor the iPhone 4.

I am an iPhone 4 and a BlackBerry user. To be honest, you guys who say BBM is the same as texting have no idea what you are saying. About 90% of my family and friends have a BB and BBM is the best way to communicate with them, especially overseas. The days when I switch to my iPhone I send maybe 10-15 texts in total in a day. Friends also have unlimited texting, but nobody really texts anymore. When I am on my BB I send at least 200 messages if not more per day.

I agree, the iPhone 4 has better apps, a display, etc. But it can't beat the physical keyboard and BBM. I have groups on my BBM where I can just send a picture and it instantly downloads onto the group members phone, easy to chat in groups or 3-way convos, the e-mail is MUCH better, instant, and reliable.

As soon as the Torch was announced, about half my FaceBook changed its status to either "Can't wait to get the Torch", "I want the Torch, etc". When the iPhone 4 launched, I was one of maybe 2 or 3 others who actually cared and posted about it. In Canada at my college the majority of students had a BlackBerry; definitely the most popular smartphone on campus.

I love my iPhone, but there just is something about a BlackBerry and BBM that will keep RIM going and be successful. There is nothing else I can say, once you experience it, you will know (given you have other friends with BBM).

If the iPhone had a BBM like service (please don't say WhatsApp or anything like that), then I could see many more in the 15-25 age group switch to the iPhone. It has to be an official Apple app (like iBooks, iTunes, etc) - something like iChat - that directly mimics BBM. Delivered, read, groups, profile pictures, updates, etc. with an unique PIN.

 

[samcraig]

It has to be an official Apple app (like iBooks, iTunes, etc) - something like iChat - that directly mimics BBM. Delivered, read, groups, profile pictures, updates, etc. with an unique PIN.

This is what needs to happen - exactly. Why? The appstore is too fragmented. Lots of great apps - but a lot of overlap. The "buy in" to anyone one app isn't great enough to make it "universal."

It would need to be part of the core apps Apple distributes and integrates into the OS to gain any traction. I "have" What's App. and a few others. I don't use them anymore (not after the first week when they were novelty) because most of the people I know have one of the many programs or none at all. So I have to figure out which app to open to make sure that friend has that app before sending? no. Not worth it... easier to txt.

RIM's BBM works and works well because it's simple and it's on every single phone. And it's 100 percent free.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

@MacModMachine, a BlackBerry can easily do that. Can connect to my MacBook and it appears like an SD card. Can easily download all the photos to my MacBook. Have you ever used a BlackBerry? Also, the iPhone 4 just got flash; BB cameras are perfectly acceptable for taking photos.

Of course, we are at a pro-Apple website and the forums will favor the iPhone 4.

I am an iPhone 4 and a BlackBerry user. To be honest, you guys who say BBM is the same as texting have no idea what you are saying. About 90% of my family and friends have a BB and BBM is the best way to communicate with them, especially overseas. The days when I switch to my iPhone I send maybe 10-15 texts in total in a day. Friends also have unlimited texting, but nobody really texts anymore. When I am on my BB I send at least 200 messages if not more per day.

I agree, the iPhone 4 has better apps, a display, etc. But it can't beat the physical keyboard and BBM. I have groups on my BBM where I can just send a picture and it instantly downloads onto the group members phone, easy to chat in groups or 3-way convos, the e-mail is MUCH better, instant, and reliable.

As soon as the Torch was announced, about half my FaceBook changed its status to either "Can't wait to get the Torch", "I want the Torch, etc". When the iPhone 4 launched, I was one of maybe 2 or 3 others who actually cared and posted about it. In Canada at my college the majority of students had a BlackBerry; definitely the most popular smartphone on campus.

I love my iPhone, but there just is something about a BlackBerry and BBM that will keep RIM going and be successful. There is nothing else I can say, once you experience it, you will know (given you have other friends with BBM).

If the iPhone had a BBM like service (please don't say WhatsApp or anything like that), then I could see many more in the 15-25 age group switch to the iPhone. It has to be an official Apple app (like iBooks, iTunes, etc) - something like iChat - that directly mimics BBM. Delivered, read, groups, profile pictures, updates, etc. with an unique PIN.

Again, this notion is outdated. Its not 2008 anymore ppl. Twitter > BBM. Shiny > Ugly. Touchscreen keys > keyboard. Its only a matter of a couple years till this is polarizingly clear. For now there are pockets of transitioning friends/social circles but as people are having more opportunity to see real iphones and become jealous its transitioning. Even if someone decides they will move, it could still be 1 to 2 years before they actually move over.

Nobody gets wild about any other devices like the iPhone.

I pulled out my phone in a Gamestop just to check the time, and from accross the room: "oh you got the four?" and soon a 6 people gathered around me while I showed them the gun game with the gyroscope controlled shooting range. They were almost shrieking.