United Airlines Deploying 11,000 iPads to Pilots as Electronic Flight Bags

[mrm3]

This is great, but I don't understand how these save on fuel.

A 737 can weigh up to 70 tons. How does shaving off 38 pounds help? I must be overlooking something. Can someone please explain?

UA -> 6000 flights a year = 2,190,000 flts

x 38 = 83,220,000lbs

= 37,827,272 kgs

= about 38 million tonnes.... easy to save some money

 

[Mr. Gates]

Huge Train Wreck killing 25 people and injuring more than 130 others

The iPad will show charts and manuals nothing more or less. Just like a piece of paper. There will be no installation of Angry Birds. If you think your pilots aren't professionals and can be that easily distracted then removing the iPads won't save you. Comments about professions you know nothing about are just plain insulting.

This was caused by TEXTING on a simple phone.

You can't tell me that an iPad will be less distracting

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wa...s/2008/09/conductor_in_deadly_la_train_c.html

 

[vrDrew]

or about 30-40 million $$$ per year.

I don't know if your figures are correct - but if they are, it would imply that the "breakeven" on United's investment will come pretty quickly, or around two months, just on the fuel costs (never mind the savings from paper, ink, printing, etc.)

11,000 iPads @ ~$750 each = $8.25 million.

Obviously, the $750 figure doesn't count the Jeppesen subsciptions (something I'd imagine UA already is paying) or the training for flight crew, support costs, etc. But, even so, it looks like a pretty good return.

 

[canyonblue737]

Removing ONE POUND per airplane in United's 1100 plane fleet would reduce fuel burn by about 19,000 gallons of fuel per year.

 

[faroZ06]

And yes, you still need to have a little respect for pilots and turn off your precious electronics for take-off and landing OR YOU WILL DEEPLY REGRET IT.

Oops
Fortunately my walkie-talkie (accidentally left on) and iPhone 1 did not do anything...

 

[PracticalMac]

Isn't that the whole problem? Let's say during an small emergency or computer glitch, pilot recognizes that the iPad is causing a problem, he turns it off, and then what? He no longer has paper manual to get tips from. How the hell is he going to solve the problem when his electronic manual is causing the problem.

Each pilot will have iPad, and the crew could have iPad's, all of then have the same software.
If by some bizarre chance the iPad is causing an issue, then let the other pilot use it.
A gross example, but its like rabbit ears on a TV. Move it a 1/4 inch, reception is 100x better.

That's the problem. It is a proven fact that "going electronic" does not cut down on paper use, it actually increases it. Most important documents that exist electronically always have a hard copy somewhere. I really can't see pilots not having a hard copy on board, it's too contrary to being safe.

So, instead of 2 or 3 copies of all the maps and charts, just 1 copy.
And then is can be custom set just for that route, not information for every little grass strip runway.

----------

Removing ONE POUND per airplane in United's 1100 plane fleet would reduce fuel burn by about 19,000 gallons of fuel per year.

source?

 

[faroZ06]

Removing ONE POUND per airplane in United's 1100 plane fleet would reduce fuel burn by about 19,000 gallons of fuel per year.

Another reason why passengers requiring two seats for one person should pay for two tickets

 

[pbrooks]

This is great, but I don't understand how these save on fuel.

A 737 can weigh up to 70 tons. How does shaving off 38 pounds help? I must be overlooking something. Can someone please explain?

"When it comes to weight, each pound shed from a plane saves the company 14,000 gallons of fuel a year."

From the article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25592648/ns/business-cnbc_tv/t/you-think-youre-trying-save-gas/#.TlPbbeucMgw

Multiply that by an entire fleet of airplanes. This is why American doesn't paint their planes. Paint is heavy. This is why they removed olives from the salads they used to serve on board. This is why they removed pillows from coach.

 

[faroZ06]

FireWire 1394 Intelligent network guaranteed data transfer, 1500mA power, Ethernet compatible
Read: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 70% faster then USB2
Write: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 48% faster

Thank you!!!
Finally someone who understands FireWire...

 

[Vegasman]

I'm shocked! I would have expected them to go with the HP Touchpad instead

I picked one up this week-end. For what these guys need, it works just as well. Actually, it does most things as well as my iPad2. A few things worse. But also a few things better.

 

[faroZ06]

I picked one up this week-end. For what these guys need, it works just as well. Actually, it does most things as well as my iPad2. A few things worse. But also a few things better.

What about a Kindle if you just want reading?

 

[MultiMediaWill]

Obviously you didn't noticed the glass cockpit in use...

Obviously you don't know anything about being a pilot. You can't just fly a plane straight to the runway. You much follow approach and departure charts called SIDS and STARS. If the iPad fails then the pilot will not know the restricted speeds when crossing different VOR's.

 

[canyonblue737]

This was caused by TEXTING on a simple phone.

You can't tell me that an iPad will be less distracting

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wa...s/2008/09/conductor_in_deadly_la_train_c.html

You don't think I have a cellphone and a personal iPad in the cockpit with me now? Do I use them for texting and games while flying? Of course not. You can't prevent unprofessionalism and if you think your pilots are playing games up front or texting then stopping United from putting in iPads that only show critical (for your safety) charts and manuals (and do nothing else, no games, no internet browsing etc.) is backwards. So, so silly.

 

[NoNothing]

People need to read these threads.

So I guess electronic devices don't really interfere with aircraft's computers..

It is simply a question of what devices have been tested in specific situations and in specific locations.

 

[b.c.]

Also, they say portable TVs are not allowed, but they do not transmit but receive signals ALREADY IN THE AIR.

BTW, you should know that an electronic device doesn't need to be an obvious "transmitter" to be a potential source of EMI interference.

Almost all electronics have some kind of high frequency circuits that can generate RF emissions - for example your laptop has many different clock circuits (not just the CPU) operating in MHz and GHz. Even an iPod has a CPU running tens or hundreds of MHz. A portable TV receiver too. all certainly emitting all sorts of RF frequencies AND harmonics. (BTW I've done some work testing FCC compliance in an RF anechoic chamber, and you'd be surprised at what emits)

The point is, without knowing what those (passengers' ) devices are and without testing all of them in advance in the avionics environment, who can guarantee there isn't possible interference with the multitude of systems on board? Conspiracy theories aside, that's the origin of the "no personal electronics on takeoff/landing" rule.

 

[divinox]

Because your device was not tested in the configuration the pilots were. You will not be int he cockpit and there can be other entry points of EMI throughout the aircraft.

Its still the device that is being exempt (or not). Not the device carried by person x for use in place y :- )

 

[NoNothing]

I am pulling from memory

I don't know if your figures are correct - but if they are, it would imply that the "breakeven" on United's investment will come pretty quickly, or around two months, just on the fuel costs (never mind the savings from paper, ink, printing, etc.)

11,000 iPads @ ~$750 each = $8.25 million.

Obviously, the $750 figure doesn't count the Jeppesen subsciptions (something I'd imagine UA already is paying) or the training for flight crew, support costs, etc. But, even so, it looks like a pretty good return.

Based on weight savings Boeing once asked our hardware team to attempt. I think the weight/fuel savings were told to be that. I was surprised it was that high.

 

[Vegasman]

What about a Kindle if you just want reading?

Well, there are also 2 Kindles in the house. Great for reading books. Love it for reading books. It's the goto device for reading books. But that's all it good for.

 

[PracticalMac]

This is great, but I don't understand how these save on fuel.

A 737 can weigh up to 70 tons. How does shaving off 38 pounds help? I must be overlooking something. Can someone please explain?

If you live in a city, then go to the busiest stretch of highway in that city during rush hour.

Count all those cars for a half hour, and multiply by 5.

That is number of commercial flights are in the air at any one time world wide.

Aircraft on long distant international routes spend more time in the air then on the ground too.

With that many flying and for so long, yes, it does add up very fast.

 

[Mr. Gates]

You don't think I have a cellphone and a personal iPad in the cockpit with me now? Do I use them for texting and games while flying? Of course not. You can't prevent unprofessionalism and if you think your pilots are playing games up front or texting then stopping United from putting in iPads that only show critical (for your safety) charts and manuals (and do nothing else, no games, no internet browsing etc.) is backwards. So, so silly.

I see your point but you don't see mine.

If your point is valid then lets put those Maps on a Playstation 3 and have the monitor bolted to the cockpit. At least then we wouldn't have a problem with battery issues.

 

[canyonblue737]

Obviously you don't know anything about being a pilot. You can't just fly a plane straight to the runway. You much follow approach and departure charts called SIDS and STARS. If the iPad fails then the pilot will not know the restricted speeds when crossing different VOR's.

Obviously you don't either. A glass cockpit aircraft has a full FMC that KNOWS all of the SIDS/STARS/APPROACHES/NAVAIDS etc. the charts are only used to backup what is already in the FMC. If I spilled coffee all over every chart I had on a flight I would have no issues completing it.

 

[NoNothing]

That is not typical.

Its still the device that is being exempt (or not). Not the device carried by person x for use in place y :- )

You tend to certify a device for a specific use case. Having done this a dozen times or so.

 

[Steve99]

Not the best idea in my opinion - in an emergency I hope they have full paper back up and aren't thumbing through something electronic.

 

[canyonblue737]

I see your point but you don't see mine.

If your point is valid then lets put those Maps on a Playstation 3 and have the monitor bolted to the cockpit. At least then we wouldn't have a problem with battery issues.

You do realize there will be no applications on these iPads that aren't approved, nor anyway to download others to them right? A Playstation 3 that only shows charts is safe because it isn't exactly showing Call of Duty in flight is it? The iPads are just a flat panel display of a chart, nothing more. It saves paper, money, and trees nothing more. If a pilot is going to goof off or be distracted it will be with a personal phone or iPad, not with these devices.

 

[kdarling]

But the unintentional transmitters are more powerful than the onboard wifi and stray EM radiation?

It's all about control and what has been tested.

The WiFi is can be turned off during critical flight phases and is thus not a factor.

The unintentional transmitters can be at power levels and frequencies that the aircraft was never tested for. In testing, Boeing has found up to 100 times the power transmission levels that were expected, and frequencies higher than test plans had previously called for.

The stray EM is mostly outside the aircraft and thus is not usually a problem. (Perhaps with forthcoming composite planes it will be, even though those have to include wires embedded in the material to form a cage for lightning protection.)