Upcoming Xbox App Update Will Let Xbox Users Stream Games to iPhone and iPad

[AndiG]

Why not? Because it makes no sense from a practical or technical standpoint. XCloud is not on consoles. XCloud streams games from MS servers. Consoles already have the games so there's no need to stream from MS servers. What you're describing is streaming a stream of another stream. That's nothing but lag on top of lag.

Which one of these experiences make sense?
1. Console → Stream → You.
or
2. Server → Stream → Console → Stream → You.

Why would anyone want 2? There's no advantage. Which is why MS doesn't have XCloud on consoles. It would be redundant and a worse experience.

See it another way. xCloud is the equivalent to PlayStation Now that is abailable at PS4. It is a gaming pass where pay a monthly fee and get many games.
The latency iPhone to XBox is the same like Controller to XBox. An iPhone or iOS device is just another display. You can do the same with a wireless HDMI Transmitter.

So,it is definitively possible - and it would a nice and legal way to bypass Apples policies.

 

[gnipgnop]

Web browsers aren’t apps? What’s the difference between going to a website in a browser or launching an app? And what’s the difference between a streaming game and streaming video like Netflix?

Web browsers are apps, but all the content comes from the internet. The internet is not something Apple created, thus the distinction in terms of apps running via the web and the browser. Apple did create iOS and iPadOS and the App Store, so they want to control that experience.

The difference between streaming video and streaming games is that the video is a file and the game is an app. Per the App Store, apps that are being provided by the developer to the user have to conform to the rules of the store. So if the app is being streamed via an App Store app, then it has to follow Apple's rules. If the app is being streamed via the internet, it's not subject to App Store rules because it's internet content.

 

[gnipgnop]

Apple are in effect blocking higher quality content in a short term bid to protect their lower quality offerings.

Amazon's Luna game streaming service will provide similar AAA content to things like Stadia or Xbox cloud gaming and will be available on iOS and iPadOS because it streams via the browser. If Stadia and Xbox cloud gaming streamed via the browser, then they would be on iOS and iPadOS as well. That's specifically what Apple said as part of their public statement after Microsoft said Xbox cloud gaming wouldn't be available on iOS/iPadOS.

Like I said, Apple wants to keep the focus in the App Store on native apps that are specifically programmed to take advantage of the features/functions of Apple's own operating systems.

 

[Ethosik]

It's not about security breach, there will be no hack attack because of it, it's not about anything like that. There is no other logic or intention behind it but Apple protection of it's own native game market and it's own gaming services. That is all there is to it. Same reason why flash was not allowed on from the day one, cause it was alternative way to apps and games.

If it is one way (the only way) to get Apps on iOS without out app approval, some things will occur I bet you.

 

[Ethosik]

How can it be anything security related though,
You are basically streaming the same things as a Netflix movie with some user interactions.
You're not downloading code or bad hacker software.
It's just a video stream of a game being played/run on cloud servers. Just the video output, that's all.
And by pressing buttons at your end, you can alter the video stream basically.

We all know Apple are simply doing this to protect their own gaming service.
It's funny really as the two have nothing in common.

Apple's games are a million miles, and on a different planet to proper full AAA gaming titles.

Apple WILL allow these services, believe me. The market is going to shift fast, for some areas of the world with good internet speeds. Microsofts gaming service, now they have purchased Bethesda, it's going to become a no-brainer soon.

Games are more interactive. Want to name your pet that can attack bad guys, there is a test box that prompts for user input.

 

[pasamio]

For years small developers that are on the App Store have complained that they make hardly any profit. Many have moved on to greener pastures already 🤷‍♂️

Only big corporations like Tencent with "pay to win" models and are given front window advertisement by Apple make tons of money. That's the perception I've always had from reading their experiences anyways.

Small developers on any platform will struggle and go in and out of business. I am bemused by the expectation that there is some sort of entitlement a random application make money on any of the App Stores. This is doubly so when you consider Steam was the first to pick the 30% cut when game publishers were taking 70% at the time. If anything it's now easier than ever to make money from your code and the problem is now the market is saturated with too much content (2.2 million apps on iOS and 2.8 million on Android).

Apple wants the App Store to provide native apps for users of their devices, i.e., apps that take advantage of the specific functionality and features provided by iOS/iPadOS. That's what they're protecting, which is why they're fine with web/browser based streaming for games or apps. Amazon's recently announced Luna game streaming service is web/browser based and Apple worked with them to help bring it to Macs and iPhone/iPad.

And anyone familiar with the iPhone/iPad knows that remote client apps that provide access to your personal library of software on a console or PC have been allowed by Apple for a long time.

I thought it was also telling that the Luna page didn't list Android device support. Seems like an odd oversight in this space.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple is frustrating users more and more. Just stay out of the apps! Sell your hardware and shut up. Pisses me off that I bought a 12" iPad Pro and yet Apple deems it necessary to meddle with what apps I can and can't use. Apple is becoming to look at its users as the enemy.

oh and let’s go back to random websites and huge levels of theft where developers and companies end up loosing so much money for theft of their work like in the days of Nokia’s S60 (Ngage QD ~ all surviving game developers then lost millions), or Microsoft’s PocketPC / Smartphone Editions devices by Samsung, Acer, HP, Compaq (bought by HP),Casio (yeah they didn’t last long) ; pretty much like Android wherein only the major builders survived.

yeah that’s not happening too well even with various stores on Android it’s more fragmented on software equality and use against the Android Play Store.

but preach on, I’m sure it’ll catch on as history as shown (lol NOT).

 

[69Mustang]

See it another way. xCloud is the equivalent to PlayStation Now that is abailable at PS4. It is a gaming pass where pay a monthly fee and get many games.
The latency iPhone to XBox is the same like Controller to XBox. An iPhone or iOS device is just another display. You can do the same with a wireless HDMI Transmitter.

So,it is definitively possible - and it would a nice and legal way to bypass Apples policies.

No it's definitely not possible. XCloud is a direct stream from MS servers. You can't connect to an XCloud server through an XBox console. If you're streaming from a console and the XBox app, you're only streaming the downloaded game from the console, not XCloud.

XCloud allows you to immediately stream any game in the catalog... from the cloud (servers). No downloading needed.

The XBox app allows you to stream a downloaded game from your console. Whether its downloaded from a physical disc, the MS Store, or Game Pass, the game has to be downloaded to the console to stream to iOS device. That's a connection from the iOS device to the console, not a MS server.

It's not a way to bypass Apple's policies. The only way for XCloud to work on iOS devices is through a browser like Amazon's Luna service or Apple changes it's policies.

 

[itunexify]

Xbox are 7 years late to this compared to PlayStation.
Been using Remote Play since the start of PS4. Works well half way across the planet even 😊 Using the MacBook Pro for this mostly.

The functionality is available since Windows 10 launch in 2015

 

[jimbobb24]

Please Apple allow streaming so we can do PSNow on AppleTV. This is the direction things are going and you can be a leader.

 

[Chorx]

This is different from GamePass streaming because you're essentially hosting the content on your own Xbox?

What the **** is the difference between Microsoft's cloud Xbox with games on it and my Xbox with games on it? This is so insane. I'll tell you what the difference is. One of these solutions tears up my home data cap, one of them doesn't. Apple is insane for thinking this is ok. GamePass streaming is such a slam dunk for so many reasons.

Can somebody please tell me why Apple allowed Amazon's game streaming service and not Microsoft's? This gets me so worked up. I don't even play video games often, I just cannot grapple with how anti competitive this is.

Apple is picking winners/losers in the game streaming business. This is exactly the reason net neutrality is so important. You should not allow Apple to pick and choose winners as much as you should be ok with your telco picking and choosing who gets to win by not chewing up data. This preferred service treatment is insane.

 

[Rogifan]

Web browsers are apps, but all the content comes from the internet. The internet is not something Apple created, thus the distinction in terms of apps running via the web and the browser. Apple did create iOS and iPadOS and the App Store, so they want to control that experience.

The difference between streaming video and streaming games is that the video is a file and the game is an app. Per the App Store, apps that are being provided by the developer to the user have to conform to the rules of the store. So if the app is being streamed via an App Store app, then it has to follow Apple's rules. If the app is being streamed via the internet, it's not subject to App Store rules because it's internet content.

How is a streaming video game an app? There doesn’t seem to be any difference in what Amazon is doing and xCloud or Google’s Stadia other than Amazon is choosing to make it a progressive web app that you access via the browser.

Games are more interactive. Want to name your pet that can attack bad guys, there is a test box that prompts for user input.

Wouldn’t user interaction/input also exist in the browser? Let’s face it Apple’s rules on game streaming apps are stupid. I’ll be you any money these rules won’t exist for much longer.

 

[SupaDav03]

I bet apple will still try to block this.

Why? Sony offers this exact feature in their PS4 app on iOS & PadOS.

You can stream any game to your iPhone or iPad on a local network and play the games with touchscreen controls or connect a dualshock 4. This has been around since iOS 13.

It think people are confusing what this feature is with things like Stadia & Project Xcloud. It’s nothing like those. Its just casting your PS4 or Xbox to your iPad or iPhone (basically).

 

[szw-mapple fan]

In fact - If I were a developer, I would attempt to steer clear of making any apps for their platform. The public spat between Epic Games and Apple is another example. Both are in the wrong but I would tend to agree with Epic since their stance was to save users money.

Epic's stance was to save themselves money. I doubt the savings would be passed down to the consumer.

 

[Marshall73]

Why not - MS could implemented something like this. If the Xbox would forward a stream from Ethernet to wlan there wouldn’t even a bandwidth problem. Bypassing the whole AppStore rules would be so much fun. And theoretically you could start a Windows Remote shell on iOS and play streaming games ...

because xcloud doesn’t stream to Xbox, why would it need to when you can download the games and play them natively. Even if they did stream xcloud to Xbox then stream Xbox to your device the latency would be huge due to double encoding.

 

[gnipgnop]

How is a streaming video game an app? There doesn’t seem to be any difference in what Amazon is doing and xCloud or Google’s Stadia other than Amazon is choosing to make it a progressive web app that you access via the browser.

Games are applications, regardless of whether they're running on your device or running on a server somewhere. The difference for Apple is whether the gaming application is being provided by a developer via an App Store app. The streaming aspect of it is irrelevant. Xbox cloud gaming was designed to provide gaming applications through an App Store app. Amazon Luna was designed to provide gaming applications through a web browser. It's easy to see the difference. Apple created the App Store, so they view content provided via the App Store to be subject to their rules. They don't view the internet that way. Users of Amazon Luna would go to a web page through the browser and launch the streamed games. It doesn't involve downloading an App Store app.

 

[Maximara]

However a full (as we call them) Triple A Game title running on hardware, arguable even more powerful than the best gaming PC on servers, will (if Apple allows) deliver a VASTLY higher quality gaming experience than anything that coudl run on the mobile hardware inside these devices.

Apple are in effect blocking higher quality content in a short term bid to protect their lower quality offerings.
Not one Apple user should be happy with that.
If Apple allow game streaming then ALL consumers win.
Those who wish to play the full quality games via a streamed version can enjoy that.
Those who wish to play the mobile quality games running directly on Apple's hardware can enjoy that also.

It's a win win for all consumers.

The "ONLY" person who may lose out is Apple losing some money from those people who'd rather pay for the AAA games service as opposed to paying Apple for the mobile quality games service.

It's odd and frankly worrying any consumer would not want the option to have a choice if Apple gave them that choice.

The flaw in all this is you have to have access to internet that doesn't cost an arm, leg, and first born so it isn't pathetic. For example, for DSL speeds where I use to live (Las Cruces, New Mexico) you are looking at a teaser price of $20/month for a year at 25 Mbps (you wish, 10 Mbps would be more accurate), then it leapt up to $50.00, and if you went over the 1.2 TB limit it was $10 for each additional 50GB. If you wanted automatic billing so you wouldn't have to remember add $10 to that after the first year. And the recommendation for that was Downloading music/photos and Streaming light content.

This is all assuming you they offered internet only if not well you were stuck with a cable package for another ~$50/month. Now 1.2 TB sound like a lot but if you are streaming a 60 fps high resolution game that get eaten up fast.

 

[Piggie]

The flaw in all this is you have to have access to internet that doesn't cost an arm, leg, and first born so it isn't pathetic. For example, for DSL speeds where I use to live (Las Cruces, New Mexico) you are looking at a teaser price of $20/month for a year at 25 Mbps (you wish, 10 Mbps would be more accurate), then it leapt up to $50.00, and if you went over the 1.2 TB limit it was $10 for each additional 50GB. If you wanted automatic billing so you wouldn't have to remember add $10 to that after the first year. And the recommendation for that was Downloading music/photos and Streaming light content.

This is all assuming you they offered internet only if not well you were stuck with a cable package for another ~$50/month. Now 1.2 TB sound like a lot but if you are streaming a 60 fps high resolution game that get eaten up fast.

Indeed you are of course 100% correct.
Streaming games being played on a beast of a machine in a server room, so you can enjoy all that graphical gorgeousness on your low powered phone/tablet that could never do that level of quality itself will not work for many.
It will not work for the bulk of the population on the planet.
But then we could probably say the same thing for Netflix or anything else that streams content.
Many will not even have broadband at any speed or even have any hope of getting the Internet ever in their lives due to their location and poverty in the world.
That aside, that does not mean such a service should not be made, or should not be available for those who can enjoy such a service and it's content.

 

[pasamio]

because xcloud doesn’t stream to Xbox, why would it need to when you can download the games and play them natively. Even if they did stream xcloud to Xbox then stream Xbox to your device the latency would be huge due to double encoding.

Why would you need to double encode? Just pass on the packets as you receive them like a proxy server or any of the other routers did for the packets to get there. It's one extra hop on your home network but there is no need to re-encode the video to forward it.

Indeed you are of course 100% correct.
Streaming games being played on a beast of a machine in a server room, so you can enjoy all that graphical gorgeousness on your low powered phone/tablet that could never do that level of quality itself will not work for many.
It will not work for the bulk of the population on the planet.
But then we could probably say the same thing for Netflix or anything else that streams content.
Many will not even have broadband at any speed or even have any hope of getting the Internet ever in their lives due to their location and poverty in the world.
That aside, that does not mean such a service should not be made, or should not be available for those who can enjoy such a service and it's content.

I think the material difference is that Netflix will buffer the content and has options for downloading the content that makes it more accessible. It's possible to downsample the original content to a resolution that works which also expands it's reach. You can't buffer the game in any way that makes senes with interactive input, you could download the game but at that point you're in the App Store territory and if you're downsampling the content to fit down a smaller pipe then you're starting to get to the territory that the local device has enough power to run the game anyway.

 

[mattbingham14]

Apple is frustrating users more and more. Just stay out of the apps! Sell your hardware and shut up. Pisses me off that I bought a 12" iPad Pro and yet Apple deems it necessary to meddle with what apps I can and can't use. Apple is becoming to look at its users as the enemy.

not really sure what you thought was going to happen when you bought an iPad? obviously, Apple has complete control of its own products and app store? It's not like they are forcing you to download and use an app, if you choose to use an app then you use that app how it's designed to work for iPad.

You're comment is funny

 

[Maximara]

Indeed you are of course 100% correct.
Streaming games being played on a beast of a machine in a server room, so you can enjoy all that graphical gorgeousness on your low powered phone/tablet that could never do that level of quality itself will not work for many.
It will not work for the bulk of the population on the planet.
But then we could probably say the same thing for Netflix or anything else that streams content.
Many will not even have broadband at any speed or even have any hope of getting the Internet ever in their lives due to their location and poverty in the world.
That aside, that does not mean such a service should not be made, or should not be available for those who can enjoy such a service and it's content.

The flaw in this comparison is that for a game you have regular input was well as output. For 99% of the time Netflix is simply sending data. Lag is a huge problem with playing games over a stream (as opposed to just hooking up the thing to your live stream and people watching you play the game). As any gamer can tell you if lag is a problem playing the game straight from the platform than it is a problem doing it over anything but the fastest internet connection.

That aside, that does not mean such a service should not be made, or should not be available for those who can enjoy such a service and it's content.

Can you say OnLive, neighbor? As the old adage goes one definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. OnLive showed without insanely high speed internet such a service is effectively a pipe dream for the masses and the few who can use the service is so small that it does not make money.

Apple Arcade is already drifting to mobile games rather then desktop games and there are several factors for this but I suspect the biggie is mobile games don't generally involve the type of data transfers that a desktop game does.

Watch Yahtzee's Zero Punctuation and imagine playing any of the games with a slight delay over a less then ideal internet connection. Now who is the customer going to blame? Not the ISP but Apple. So add Clueless Customer to the pile of reasons why doing this may not be the best idea.

The only thing that can be said of stream gaming is at least it exists rather then some of the stuff Thunderf00t's channel is on about. I watch that and I just shake my head at the total gullibility/ignorance of the consuming public.

 

[nylonsteel]

gaming is growing
the more aapl gets more gaming friendly - the better

 

[Nuno Lopes]

In fact - If I were a developer, I would attempt to steer clear of making any apps for their platform. The public spat between Epic Games and Apple is another example. Both are in the wrong but I would tend to agree with Epic since their stance was to save users money.

Yeah. If you look at the number of Apple devices we have in our house we would be FanBoys mainly pushed by me to the kids and wide.

But I’m feeling like you. It seams that the end is not only sell the device but also tax for its use through what I use or don’t use, what I can and not use. Don’t want the second after paying more than 1000 for the device by any means ... will follow this closely in the next couple of years.

Don’t know if this quote came from SJ ... “Apple is building vehicles for the mind”. I think this strikes right trough what general purpose computing devices like smartphones, tablets, laptops and desktops ... actually are in the modern age.

Well, I don’t want future were my simblings mind is taxed by default by Apple or a collective of mega-corps.

 

[unQuestionable]

I was asking specifically what the latency will be using this, not generally. Thank you anyway.

the time from which something happens to the time you see it or hear it. example, you press A to jump, character on screen jumps 100ms later. latency can be introduced at different points, like communication to the device from the controller to the console/computer/server; the tv/screen can introduce latency to actually display it; if on a server the server introduces latency to receive input and send back the rendered image; etc

 

[pasamio]

I was asking specifically what the latency will be using this, not generally. Thank you anyway.

The latency you will see specifically is mostly based on your own network and how good your wifi is where you are gaming. Since you're on the same network as the Xbox you shouldn't see too much of an impact compared to having to stream it across the internet like the other solutions. I can't imagine more than a 30ms latency when playing on a device and I'd expect in a good setup you could get down to 10ms or so consistently.