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Upgrade Potential of the PowerMac G5?

Upgraded one, and retired the other

A long time ago, I upgraded my 6500 to G3. Tuesday, I retired the 6500, until I get off my dead a$$ and connect an Apple mini-monitor that is in storage.
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Tuesday, I took away the 6500's 17-inch monitor and plugged it into a new Radeon 7000 For Mac card that I bought & installed into the QuickSilver 733. Now I have extended desktop across two 17-inch monitors.

The OEM nVidia card allows video mirroring on two monitors, not extended desktop. It allows a third (and mirrored fourth?) monitor for extended desktop when used with the Radeon 7000.
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Other upgrades that I've done to the QS-733: Ram @ 640; dual internal hard drives; internal Zip-250.
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Do I want a G5? You bet...
... But I haven't used up this G4 QS-733.
... Maybe I'll get a last rev G5 when the G6 is in the showroom.
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JJ
 
Re: Re: Possible solution for upgrades

Originally posted by hvfsl
I don't think the PCI-X bus is as fast as the PPC970's at 1Ghz, although I do know PCI-X is faster than AGP 8x, so it would be better to get PCI-X graphics cards in future. I think ATI is bringing one out soon. PCI-X is meant to replace both PCI and AGP, maybe Apple will get rid of AGP in rev 2.

Someone could now do a AMD chip on a PCI-X card so that we can have a PC and Mac in one, like the old performa 630. If the card had a AMD 3000XP on it, then it should be as fast as a 3000XP PC.
Click to expand...

Actually PCI-X was a temporary fix until Infiniband is widely adopted and still needs to be released. There are other 3G I/O specs as well, but Infiniband seems to be the dominate one with all the major players involved.

Companies have yet to release commercial products based upon it. Infiniband offers far better throughput then PCI-X as well as better use of resources. It is a switched I/O rather then a shared like ISA/PCI/PCI-X is. Eventually AGP will be replaced as well, quite possible Infinband. It is possible to have the graphics, CPU interconnect, storage, network, Firewire, USB, etc. all on one bus. Infiniband can go up to 30Gb/s.

2004/2005 should bring it into the datacenter. How soon it gets adopted elsewhere remains to be seen. Most companies do not offer PCI-X cards, so they are probably waiting to see what I/O wins and go with that. PCI-X won't be it.
 
Re: Delaying your decision is nonsense

Originally posted by adzoox
First, it's not a rumor. It's pretty much a fact.
Click to expand...
Fact?!?! So you can then tell us how it was to upgrade your G5? Please share.
 
Re: Re: So what else is new with Apple?

Originally posted by sedarby
How has Apple copied XP? What feature of XP has been put in OS X?
Click to expand...
Fast user switching is the only thing I can think of… oh, and that little gear looking icon/button that brings up contextual info on the item you've selected.
 
Re: Upgrade Potential of the PowerMac G5?

Originally posted by Macrumors
In perhaps what should be taken in the strictest definition of a rumor, one Xlr8yourmac.com post indicates that one Apple engineer suggested that the PowerMac G5's may be difficult to upgrade (Processors) due to cooling/venting requirements:
Click to expand...

So it might be an authorized service upgrade including a ROM upgrade. But has Apple EVER done company approved upgrades? Or has this always been a third party thing anyway?

I find that Apple has trained its users to mostly avoid upgrading a box but to buy a second box. It is only because of the expendable wintel mothernoard market that there is a culture of upgrade anyway.

While upgrading on Macs is readily available I hazard to guess the fraction of the market using them is quite small indeed.

Rocketman
 
I wouldn't put too much stock in this

I posted this on another thread but it seemed relevant. You see, the fans are variable speed, temperature controlled by the computer itself. I don't think there will be problems because as the temperature of components rise, the system automatically compensates by increasing fan speed.

Read:
Originally posted by ffakr
Some had issues where the fans were not behaving as they should (spinning up for no reason...)
Click to expand...
Originally posted by illumin8
I think this is due to the way they are controlling the fans to keep noise levels down. I work on Sun servers, and on our higher end servers, this is exactly what we do.

Basically, it works like this:

1. When the box is first powered on, the fans come on at maximum speed to ensure that nothing will overheat.

2. Once the OS is loaded, it starts an "environment monitoring daemon" that monitors temperatures of key components and adjusts the fan speed appropriately. (this is very scary the first time it happens, because it sounds like the fans just shut off, but actually they are just slowing down to a better level)

3. If the environment daemon crashes or stops running for some reason, the fans all spin back up to maximum speed just to make sure that nothing overheats. This is a failsafe method to make sure nothing will burn up.

I'm 99% sure this is how Apple is managing the heat on these boxes while making sure that everything stays quiet.

Another thing to consider with this is that variable speed fans tend to wear out a lot quicker than fixed speed fans because the speed is always changing. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND purchasing Applecare if you buy one of these G5s because with 9 fans I'm sure you'll have at least 1 or 2 fan failures by the time you've had the box for 3 years or so. Hopefully the environment monitoring daemon will notify you of a fan failure and shut down the box if necessary. Most likely, the other fans will spin up to full speed if a failure occurs and keep the box running cool.
Click to expand...
 
First of all, it's a stinking rumour.....

Second, the rumor said it would be difficult, not impossible.....

Third, for all you "blessed be the Rev B" folks, I will gladly sell you my DualG5 2ghz next year when the DualG5 3ghz is out. That way, I'll have a full years use and benefit, while you work on a slower older computer in the meatime.

Finally, for all of you whose current hardware is old and slow enough to justify your purchase of these "scary" new systems, just the the AppleCare, and enjoy the benefits of being far more productive that you were before.

PS, for the dude with the drunken sister sleeping on the back of Job's Gulfstream, did he say 'which" December?... It won't be this December. Get real. But December next year?... Jobs said on stage for all of us to hear that it would be so.
 
I wouldn't put it past Apple to do something like this. Need to make your system faster? buy another system! Sounds like a good way to keep people buying new Macs rather than upgrade their old ones.
 
time will tell.... but i don't buy it

in the G5 info out now it says that there are 9 fans divided into the 4 temperature zones.... so only the processor zone would really be an issue.... which i think is 4 fans? the fans or zones (not sure how specific they are) all have speed controls on them to keep the machine cool, yet as quiet as possible. i would assume the speed is set by temp sensors and not some preset..... a machine in a 40F room needs less cooling than one in Las Vegas during the summer with no AC. The same way your car is more likely to overheat in the summer than the dead of winter.... why run the same cooling for all enviroments? will all the fan advancements that the computer industry in general has, and Apple has used in previous machines (laptops), why would they risk such a mess. Isn't it also possible that a G5 chip that's out in a year or two would be faster (to justify an upgrade) and not run that much hotter?

also, just for the sake of cost and whatnot, i would think the settings (if this is AT ALL true) are just firmware. imagine if Apple found out in 6 months that they throttled the settings a little too high or low.... instead of a full scale motherboard recall they could slip a fix into a software update.
 
I very much doubt each system has to be tuned specifically for the processor. It is more likely that the computerized controller offers better flexibility. Think of it like "climate control" in that you designate an upper/lower temp and that is where the system keeps it.
 
Thermal is probably not the issue

I doubt thermal problems are really the issue. It's usually that the motherboard won't handle a faster CPU. A CPU upgrade could always include new, faster fans or whatever. I don't think Apple really likes the idea of people upgrading its computers. It's a weakness, but it means less tech support and fewer problems for them.

It would be nice if they were easilly upgradable, though. For example, I just built a PC with a planned upgrade path:

It has have a gig of 400MHZ DDR ram. In a year or whenever, I'll double that. Adding a second stick suddenly makes it dual channel DDR, gaining me some speed (the computer is a shuttle SB62G)

It has a 2.4GHz P4 W/800MHz FSB. If I really want more speed, when the costs come down I can boost that to 3.2 or more. Probably not more though. 3.2 is suposedly intels last P4 before the Prescott.

It has one SATA hard drive. I'll add another and RAID them for more storage and performance.
 
Re: 9 fans...

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Just additional moving parts to break down...:(

The original iMac was fanless. Wasn't the Cube as well?
Click to expand...

True but they are probably use fluid drive bearings, which are quiter and last much longer than ball and sleeve bearings. Around 10 years continuous use. Also with 9, there must be some redundancy. Aren't there 4 in the CPU section on the dualies?
 
Re: 9 fans...

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Just additional moving parts to break down...:(

The original iMac was fanless. Wasn't the Cube as well?
Click to expand...

I had one of the original iMacs, it had a fan, relatively quiet, but still a fan. I think they went fanless a little later down the line, but not sure when.

9 fans seems a little excessive for me, but if it's as quiet as they say it would certainly be a big step up from the 4 fans(case, cpu, ps, and superdrive) in my quicksilver that make it sound like a dustbuster.
 
Re: Re: Re: So what else is new with Apple?

Originally posted by ryan
Fast user switching is the only thing I can think of… oh, and that little gear looking icon/button that brings up contextual info on the item you've selected.
Click to expand...
What features of OS X has XP borrowed?
 
Liquid cooling?

There are a lot of cooling options. Liquid cooling kits might be hard to install but its not impossible.

http://koolance.com/products/product.html?code=HDC1-A01

http://www.heatsinkstore.com/liquidcooling.html


http://www.mitron.com.tw/product_list.asp?Cat=47&Subcat=236

Someone is always out there experimenting.

http://larkin.nuclearwinter.com/cool/

http://kmcsonline.com/casemod/lcc/

http://www.hexus.net/review.php?review=307

And regulating the system is just an additional chip or patch away. One day there wasn't Qcad version that worked on x11 the next day there was.

http://www.qcad.org/index.php3?body=download#packages

O.k. different area, but same concept.

All I'm saying is people have a way of working around these kinds of problems.
 
I thought that with the 970, the FSB pretty much had to be half the speed of the cpu. So to upgrade to a new processor you would have to upgrade the mobo anyway to see any benefit. To me it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Besides, I haven't ever upgraded any of my processors and as clustering becomes more feasible, you can just retire the old box to your personal closet "render farm"
 
big fans

add some big fans in that thermal zone and then the sensors will sense a cold front from the north and never worry.

IT CAN BE DONE

IT WILL BE DONE

IT PROBABLY ALREADY HAS BEEN DONE
 
oh wow.

The machines aren't even *out* yet, and people are already complaining about their upgradability?

Keep in mind that Apple has *never* officially designed a G3/G4 machine to have upgradeable CPUs, that I know of.
Everything's just been "what the aftermarket can come up with".
 
I don't think it makes much sense to me. If you put a cooling system that can cool a dual 2.0GHz system, surely it will be able to cool the 1.6GHz system with no problems. It may be a bit over-effective, but it'll also do the job perfectly. I just don't see why it'll make a difference. If they just put a cooling system that can cool a dual 3.0GHz system, THAT should cool the dual 2.0GHz systems fine as well.
 
In recent years, upgrading has become increasingly "not worth it." As we all know, it's not just the cpu. It's interfaces, motherboards, caches, etc. It's all moving so fast that 2 years is about it.

For example right now upgrading BW G3s with G4s costs about half as much as the G4 new, and will underperform a new one. Better to not upgrade at all, or if it's really needed that badly for work / business, then the minor cost of getting a full new computer is a better decision. Plus you can sell the old one to further close the gap in price.

So, to this rumor I say "who cares?" Does anybody plan on upgrading their G4 to a G5? Nope. You either won't be able to, or it wouldn't be worth it.
 
Straight GANGSTA!!! Check these out! I know we've already seen the G5 but I think these pictures really give us a look at the size etc. GANGSTA!!
 
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