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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?
- Thread starter Fezzy
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Hey man, welcome to the thread.
Ninja Edit: This is indeed good news from Apple. Hopefully they can have it resolved.
And that's where the problem comes in. Apple likely has firmware that is looking for something slightly different than a stock 8800GT card.
Uh, what? No.
Apple uses reference --stock-- cards with custom firmware. The firmware itself won't do any device ID checking.
If we flash a PC card with Apple firmware, worst case scenario is that we edit the plist for the G92 KEXT to add the requisite device ID.
Best case scenario is it'll "just work" once flashed.
Uh, what? No.
Ever done any flashing? I have. Apple doesn't use "stock cards," whatever that actually means. For one thing, most reference designs include S-Video/component outs. Apple's sure doesn't. Apple won't likely have an SLI connector either, and it's quite possible that they've used their own power connector.
I'm not sure why people pretend to know things they can't yet know.
Try again.
NVIDIA and ATI both have reference designs for new chipsets they make. These reference designs --colloquially referred to as stock, or base-- include heatsink, PCB and power.
Individual card manufacturers, such as eVGA, PNY, KFA2, etc, are free to use these designs as-is, or customize them.
Generally speaking, Apple takes the reference cards and releases them with very little changes, aside from custom firmware.
The 8800GT doesn't have a S-Video port on it, that's correct. That's just a cost saving measure, the PCB itself can most likely accommodate one. Same goes for the SLI connector. Apple has obviously cut as much as they can off the PCB, that doesn't mean a PC version of the 8800GT won't work-- especially if you get one that's as close to reference as possible. After all, this is how we got PC X1900s flashed with the Apple ROM.
We know for a fact that Apple's 8800GT has a power connector on it, and again, I'd be willing to bet that it was an industry standard 6-pin molex, just like the X1900 XT and PC version of the 8800GT.
As for me doing any flashing? Sure, I've done tons of it. In fact, I was one of the first people to make the August 2006 Mac Pro's 7300GT ROM available. (And in turn, get other 7-Series cards booting.)
Quit trying to wave your epeen around; this is a battle you're not going to win.
I have done some flashing, and I think you're both wrong - and both right.
Some of Apple's video cards have stuck closely to the reference design, while some have not. For example, the Radeon X800XT Mac Edition was, as I recall, a hybrid design that was basically a stock Radeon X800XT board with the addition of the external TDMS chip from the contemporary FireGL X3 so it could drive two DVI ports (one was ADC). The reference X800XT had a different (internal) TDMS and had one DVI and one VGA port. For flashers it means that only the expensive FireGL X3 can be flashed to the Mac with working DVI - PC Radeon X800 or X850 cards would flash, but the DVI port wouldn't work, leaving you with the VGA port only.
On the other hand, I flashed a GeForce 6800GT (with two DVI ports) into my PowerMac G4 and it was fully functional - I didn't even have to change the device ID in the ROM (got lucky there, but it's a small matter). Apple's 6800GT was pretty close to the reference design.
The answer, then (as always), is it depends...
The 8800GT should be flashable, and within a month or two someone will have dumped and uploaded their EFI so others can flash/experiment. The most exciting part is that many other G92-based cards will probably work with Apple's 8800GT EFI ROM, so we'll be able to flash wilder cards.
SLI - forget about it. It will probably show up on the Mac eventually, but not for a couple years at least IMO. The Mac Pro's motherboard doesn't do SLI.
People like you are funny. You pretend to know what you can't know, and get upset when someone points that out. What is wrong with admitting that you're speculating and guessing?
Let's put it this way, I'm using informed speculation.
What Blackadder said is true, Apple has made some unique design changes to cards before, this however, was a completely different era. It was the era of PPC, super large displays were new; they were inventing this stuff as they went along.
What we're talking about here is getting an 8800GT working on an Intel Mac using commodity x86 hardware.
The X1900 XT is reference.
The 7300GT is reference.
The HD 2600 XT is reference.
There's no reason to assume that the 8800GT will be any different.
^^ I agree.
One thing we can all be happy about these days is that with the death of ADC and the adoption of the Intel architecture Apple is much more likely to use video cards that differ little from their PC counterparts, and thus more likely to be flash-friendly.
Pretty much all Apple video cards should be a straightforward flash these days - we won't have to go through the nightmares associated with flashing the AGP GeForce 7800 anymore.
One thing we can all be happy about these days is that with the death of ADC and the adoption of the Intel architecture Apple is much more likely to use video cards that differ little from their PC counterparts, and thus more likely to be flash-friendly.
Pretty much all Apple video cards should be a straightforward flash these days - we won't have to go through the nightmares associated with flashing the AGP GeForce 7800 anymore.
I'm somewhat surprised how the current 8800GT firmware got through to be honest. It's strange that not a single engineer wanted to test it on an Mac Pro (2006).
When making a new Mac Pro video card there's no worry that you're making a video card for Macs only. It'll boot into Windows just fine. How much more effort does it take for EFI support?
We're now on the Intel side. Why spend money using non-reference part unless you're going to cater to some kind of enthusiast? The Mac Pro is a workstation and not a gaming machine. I've rarely found any non-reference board cards outside of overclocked or dual slot from single slot enthusiast cards.
Yeah, this debacle with the 8800GT firmware is totally ridiculous. Apple had better issue a firmware fix soonish or they'll have a black eye from this. The fact that it works on Windows on the Mac but not OS X on the Mac is a PR disaster if anyone's astute enough to make that fact public.
One of the great things about the current upgrade is that all the older Mac Pro users should be able to take advantage of the new video cards on offer. And now we learn that the mid-grade card that is the most desirable for upgrades won't work on the older Mac Pros...Doh!
I hope the Radeon HD2600XT will work on the older Mac Pros...that would make a nice upgrade over the obsolete GeForce 7300, even if it won't hold a candle to the 8800GT.
One of the great things about the current upgrade is that all the older Mac Pro users should be able to take advantage of the new video cards on offer. And now we learn that the mid-grade card that is the most desirable for upgrades won't work on the older Mac Pros...Doh!
I hope the Radeon HD2600XT will work on the older Mac Pros...that would make a nice upgrade over the obsolete GeForce 7300, even if it won't hold a candle to the 8800GT.
Yeah, this debacle with the 8800GT firmware is totally ridiculous. Apple had better issue a firmware fix soonish or they'll have a black eye from this.
One of the great things about the current upgrade is that all the older Mac Pro users should be able to take advantage of the new video cards on offer. And now we learn that the mid-grade card that is the most desirable for upgrades won't work on the older Mac Pros...Doh!
I hope the Radeon HD2600XT will work on the older Mac Pros...that would make a nice upgrade over the obsolete GeForce 7300.
It does. People already have them in and they're running fine. Someone posted earlier in this thread that it's running great for him.
Lord Blackadder, this might interest you and other members.
It's more then likely a repost for this thread but it's worth mentioning it for you again.
2600 ... ?
After making and canceling an 8800 order (with the notorious phone call)
I'd ordered a 2600 to tide me over until things clear up.
Getting home tonight, I have a message - telling me that the radeon HD 2600 is only compatible with the new Mac Pros, and again explaining how I can cancel the order.
S'all I know... but someone at Apple, I would guess, is getting ripped a new one over this foolishness.
After making and canceling an 8800 order (with the notorious phone call)
I'd ordered a 2600 to tide me over until things clear up.
Getting home tonight, I have a message - telling me that the radeon HD 2600 is only compatible with the new Mac Pros, and again explaining how I can cancel the order.
S'all I know... but someone at Apple, I would guess, is getting ripped a new one over this foolishness.
I didn't cancel the 2600 order; it was just a phone message saying I should.
I suspect it's just disorganization in the sales/support folks at this point.
I suspect it's just disorganization in the sales/support folks at this point.
Excellent! I'd forgotten that the Radeon 3xxx cards were still R600-based. Very good news for Mac Pro owners. Thanks for posting that.
Do you think that the Mobility HD 2600 XT drivers will work for other R/RV6xx based cards now?
I have a Radeon 3850 right now and I was just curious.
I'm not fond of trying to flash it though given my lack of experience. 10.5.2 might hold more hope for other ATI video cards. It looks like it'll be more beneficial to hackintosh owners though.