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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?
- Thread starter Fezzy
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If this works, the 9800GX2 could quite possibly work since it uses the G92 core, just like the 8800GT.
As for my plan, I've got a bit documented now and this is how I'm going to do it:
I'll get all the current IOReg data of my Apple X1900, then I'll write a kext to place that same data in the IOReg on boot. At this point I'll flash my X1900 with a ROM from the PC version of the card. If I can then boot the card with my kext, I'll have proof the concept works. I could have this done by Monday.
As for my plan, I've got a bit documented now and this is how I'm going to do it:
I'll get all the current IOReg data of my Apple X1900, then I'll write a kext to place that same data in the IOReg on boot. At this point I'll flash my X1900 with a ROM from the PC version of the card. If I can then boot the card with my kext, I'll have proof the concept works. I could have this done by Monday.
Just a thought, timb, and I might be barking up the wrong tree, but there's already a utility for manipulating the behaviour of EFI at boot time. It's called rEFIt and it's mainly used for allowing a selection from multiple start-up disks. Might be worth looking at? No sense in reinventing the wheel if you can add a feature to an existing project to get the same result.
http://refit.sourceforge.net/
As I said, just a thought.
http://refit.sourceforge.net/
As I said, just a thought.
Yup, yup. Apple doesn't provide an EFI console and refit covers that pretty well. If I do end up having to write some sort of extension, I'll be using refit to help me navigate pre-boot.
I'm also wondering how rEFIt is coping with the new 64 bit EFI firmware in the new Mac Pros. I'll just go ask...
*edit* looks like v 0.10 included "fat" binaries to cover 32 and 64 bit versions.
*edit* looks like v 0.10 included "fat" binaries to cover 32 and 64 bit versions.
Let me ask something different
Let me try another angle here...
My needs for the 8800GT may not be the same as all... What I do on the mac does not require huge video processing power, but I'd love to ditch my gaming PC... So let me ask this : Is there ANY other decent card that I could install in my Mac Pro as a secondary card, that would be useable under boot camp and let me play the lastest PC games?
I don't care if it works under Leopard or not, though it would have been nice of Apple if it did... After all when I bought this mac pro over an Imac, it was for upgradability.... should have known better as long time mac user though !
Anything ?
Let me try another angle here...
My needs for the 8800GT may not be the same as all... What I do on the mac does not require huge video processing power, but I'd love to ditch my gaming PC... So let me ask this : Is there ANY other decent card that I could install in my Mac Pro as a secondary card, that would be useable under boot camp and let me play the lastest PC games?
I don't care if it works under Leopard or not, though it would have been nice of Apple if it did... After all when I bought this mac pro over an Imac, it was for upgradability.... should have known better as long time mac user though !
Anything ?
Let me try another angle here...
My needs for the 8800GT may not be the same as all... What I do on the mac does not require huge video processing power, but I'd love to ditch my gaming PC... So let me ask this : Is there ANY other decent card that I could install in my Mac Pro as a secondary card, that would be useable under boot camp and let me play the lastest PC games?
I don't care if it works under Leopard or not, though it would have been nice of Apple if it did... After all when I bought this mac pro over an Imac, it was for upgradability.... should have known better as long time mac user though !
Anything ?
As long as you are in Windows via BootCamp you can use any graphic card available.
You may have to take it out when you need to boot to Mac OS X.
Thanks for answering my question.
Its people like you who make the world a much better place
If everything works, you are saving others from being raped by excessive prices Apple charges and very well we could have a higher end video card for the price Apple is charging for last years video card.
I think its all a matter of getting all of the kinks worked out like having the speed show up right along with the name and shader 10.1 work
But mainly if people are going to game its really going to happen in the PC side.
Hmm what about the EFI problem that apple did not fix for our 2GB ram limit in 32bit Windows? I have 3 gb of ram and I have tried putting in 4GB but only 2GB will show
Recent things have shown me that other friends with similar PCs will show 3 or 3.2 GB of 4GB in their computer or 3 of 3 GB in their computer. This seems to be a bootcamp related issue due with EFI if I'm told correctly. Is it possible for you to fox that for us too?
Yes I did confirm also with the computer builder store that since I was building a pc with them for 3 GB of ram all 3GB would show, but there wasn't any point in buying 4 as only 3.2GB would show in 32bit os. But I cancelled after reading Antzokas and your posts.
Apple reserving more address space? Purposely limiting windows so people still use osx? Not sure.
I'm downloading a sp1 vista beta, and maybe that will help? I had this problem in xp bootcamp too though.
Its people like you who make the world a much better place
If everything works, you are saving others from being raped by excessive prices Apple charges and very well we could have a higher end video card for the price Apple is charging for last years video card.
I think its all a matter of getting all of the kinks worked out like having the speed show up right along with the name and shader 10.1 work
But mainly if people are going to game its really going to happen in the PC side.
Hmm what about the EFI problem that apple did not fix for our 2GB ram limit in 32bit Windows? I have 3 gb of ram and I have tried putting in 4GB but only 2GB will show
Recent things have shown me that other friends with similar PCs will show 3 or 3.2 GB of 4GB in their computer or 3 of 3 GB in their computer. This seems to be a bootcamp related issue due with EFI if I'm told correctly. Is it possible for you to fox that for us too?
Yes I did confirm also with the computer builder store that since I was building a pc with them for 3 GB of ram all 3GB would show, but there wasn't any point in buying 4 as only 3.2GB would show in 32bit os. But I cancelled after reading Antzokas and your posts.
Apple reserving more address space? Purposely limiting windows so people still use osx? Not sure.
I'm downloading a sp1 vista beta, and maybe that will help? I had this problem in xp bootcamp too though.
I have another question.
I have the ATI x1900 and am running 2 24" dells on it.
If the 8800GT doesn't work, Could I run 2 ATI cards in my machine to get better graphics? Would each screen having the 512 MB to itself and not split be better?
I have the ATI x1900 and am running 2 24" dells on it.
If the 8800GT doesn't work, Could I run 2 ATI cards in my machine to get better graphics? Would each screen having the 512 MB to itself and not split be better?
I never went into bootcamp, but I will. What should the clock speed be and what should I set it to to up it, without blowing it?
Yeah, I sold mine a few weeks ago hoping that we would get a new card to play with at MacWorld.
Underclocked X1900XT
One reason Apple underclocked the X1900XT was because of heat issues.
Under Windows, there is no fan control except from the motherboard. When I played BioShock or Crysis in Windows, it would lock up after about 5 minutes of playing. I've used smcFanControl in OS X and ATi-Tools under Windows to increase the fan speeds of both the video card and the system fans. smcFanControl allows you to increase the fan speeds until you turn off the machine. So when you reboot into Windows, those changes stick. If you boot right into Windows without booting into OS X first, smcFanControl does not help you. The video card fan cannot remove enough heat to prevent the card from overheating since the RAM and CPU's are raising the case temperature too quickly.
I've also hacked a PCI card fan to help cool the video card down. It isn't very effective but it does lower the card temps about 3 deg C and pulls some heat out of the PCI-e bay.
I've sent a complaint to Apple about fan control in Windows. Boot camp really needs to monitor the system temps and adjust the fans accordingly.
One reason Apple underclocked the X1900XT was because of heat issues.
Under Windows, there is no fan control except from the motherboard. When I played BioShock or Crysis in Windows, it would lock up after about 5 minutes of playing. I've used smcFanControl in OS X and ATi-Tools under Windows to increase the fan speeds of both the video card and the system fans. smcFanControl allows you to increase the fan speeds until you turn off the machine. So when you reboot into Windows, those changes stick. If you boot right into Windows without booting into OS X first, smcFanControl does not help you. The video card fan cannot remove enough heat to prevent the card from overheating since the RAM and CPU's are raising the case temperature too quickly.
I've also hacked a PCI card fan to help cool the video card down. It isn't very effective but it does lower the card temps about 3 deg C and pulls some heat out of the PCI-e bay.
I've sent a complaint to Apple about fan control in Windows. Boot camp really needs to monitor the system temps and adjust the fans accordingly.
Indeed, most high-end graphic card need a 2x6 or 2x4 power cable from the power supply for extra power. Or a special power cable connected to the motherboard and graphic card.
The new Quadro uses a variant of the G80 core, so *perhaps* its EFI could be made to work with the 8800 Ultra? It requires a couple auxiliary power connectors too.
I thought about that, and posted it somewhere in another thread. If your ideas prove to be practicable, and we get a 9800GX2 working on the Mac Pro...we'd have a machine that, with the proper tweaks, could satisfy all but the most ridiculously hardcore hardware freaks.
I wonder how many of the GeForce 9-class cards will use the G92 core? If history is any guide they will probably release a new core around late Q2/early Q3 2008 and we'll be unable to use the newest cards again.
I thought about that, and posted it somewhere in another thread. If your ideas prove to be practicable, and we get a 9800GX2 working on the Mac Pro...we'd have a machine that, with the proper tweaks, could satisfy all but the most ridiculously hardcore hardware freaks.
I wonder how many of the GeForce 9-class cards will use the G92 core? If history is any guide they will probably release a new core around late Q2/early Q3 2008 and we'll be unable to use the newest cards again.
Here's the skinny on the "2008" Mac Pro GPUs:
Video cards that boot on the new "early 2008" Mac Pro with its 64-bit EFI ROM need to have a 64-bit EFI driver in their ROM.
Video cards that boot on the "Aug 2006" and "Apr 2007" Mac Pro with its 32-bit EFI ROM need to have a 32-bit EFI driver in their ROM.
The ATI HD 2600 XT has both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in its ROM so it will "boot" on the "2006/2007" Mac Pro as well as the "2008" Mac Pro, though, officially, Apple only commits to supporting it on the "2008" Mac Pro.
However, the nVidia GeForce 8800 GT only has a 64-bit EFI driver in its ROM so it will ONLY boot on a "2008" Mac Pro.
Theoretically, a "2006/2007" Mac Pro could have its EFI firmware upgraded to 64-bit, but then the graphics cards that shipped with the that model of Mac Pro (GeForce 7300 GT, Radeon X1900 XT) would no longer boot.
A better approach, if Apple chose to adopt it, would be to put both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in the GeForce 8800 GT's ROM -- assuming there's room in the ROM for both drivers along with everything else that has to go in it.
Video cards that boot on the new "early 2008" Mac Pro with its 64-bit EFI ROM need to have a 64-bit EFI driver in their ROM.
Video cards that boot on the "Aug 2006" and "Apr 2007" Mac Pro with its 32-bit EFI ROM need to have a 32-bit EFI driver in their ROM.
The ATI HD 2600 XT has both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in its ROM so it will "boot" on the "2006/2007" Mac Pro as well as the "2008" Mac Pro, though, officially, Apple only commits to supporting it on the "2008" Mac Pro.
However, the nVidia GeForce 8800 GT only has a 64-bit EFI driver in its ROM so it will ONLY boot on a "2008" Mac Pro.
Theoretically, a "2006/2007" Mac Pro could have its EFI firmware upgraded to 64-bit, but then the graphics cards that shipped with the that model of Mac Pro (GeForce 7300 GT, Radeon X1900 XT) would no longer boot.
A better approach, if Apple chose to adopt it, would be to put both a 32-bit and 64-bit EFI driver in the GeForce 8800 GT's ROM -- assuming there's room in the ROM for both drivers along with everything else that has to go in it.
So if that is the case, what we need is for Apple to come forward, and say weather or not they are in fact going to do this, (or have Nvidia do this) sooner rather than later. If in fact it is possible given the rom size of the 8800 card.
Thanks to barefeats for the info!
That seems wrong, Barefeats.
The new Mac Pros are using a newer version of EFI (UEFI 2.1) if they can execute 64-Bit drivers.
Systems that can execute 64-Bit EFI should be able to execute 32-Bit code as well, but not the other way around.
Out of curiosity, what is your source on the above information?
The new Mac Pros are using a newer version of EFI (UEFI 2.1) if they can execute 64-Bit drivers.
Systems that can execute 64-Bit EFI should be able to execute 32-Bit code as well, but not the other way around.
Out of curiosity, what is your source on the above information?
That seems to be exactly what barefeats is saying. The old Mac Pros don't have a 64bit EFI, and thus can't use an 8800GT which only has 64 bit EFI ROM.
EDIT: I see what you mean. You are referring to the old cards not working in the old Pros if they are updated to a 64bit EFI. Yeah, that wouldn't make much sense if the older 32bit work in the new Mac Pro.
This gets more interesting the longer it goes on.
Why doesn't Apple just bundle a cd with the 8800GT and later graphics cards that updates the persons Mac Pro to the 64 bit UEFI2.0?
Seems the logical thing to do IMO
Why doesn't Apple just bundle a cd with the 8800GT and later graphics cards that updates the persons Mac Pro to the 64 bit UEFI2.0?
Seems the logical thing to do IMO
