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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

timestamp said:
That seems to be exactly what barefeats is saying. The old Mac Pros don't have a 64bit EFI, and thus can't use an 8800GT which only has 64 bit EFI ROM.

EDIT: I see what you mean. You are referring to the old cards not working. In theory of course it should be able to do it, unless it is 64bit only, in which case it wouldn't work.
Click to expand...

Right. I think we'll find that X1900s work just fine in new Mac Pros. Also, I'd hazard a guess that the HD 2600 only contains a 32-Bit UGA driver, no 64-Bit code at all.
 
Do they have a "driver" in the rom at all or is it just a list of capabilities that the card has?

Would it be possible to mix n match from the 7300 efi driver and 8800 efi driver to make the 8800 efi driver 32 bit? (I know what I mean but that is confusing to read)

Alistair
 
AdvocateUK said:
Do they have a "driver" in the rom at all or is it just a list of capabilities that the card has?

Would it be possible to mix n match from the 7300 efi driver and 8800 efi driver to make the 8800 efi driver 32 bit? (I know what I mean but that is confusing to read)

Alistair
Click to expand...

EFI compatible video cards contain a UGA ROM. Basically this is a driver that EFI loads and presents all the capabilities of the card; it's basically a simple graphics driver specifically for that card. That's why you can have big resolution and high color support during pre-boot on EFI systems.
 
I really hope something will resolve soon though. I love my Mac Pro, but now I'm wishing i had waited till now instead of getting in back in March. This is my first Mac and a 8800 GT would be a great improvement over the old 7300 GT.
 
If this problem is what it appears to be, Apple will probably issue a fix via Software Update, and all future cards will incorporate the fix from the factory. Hopefully.
 
Preliminary Update:

I have a modified version of dm_webd's Natit.kext semi-working. I'm working through some Leopard issues (it was designed for Tiger) and battling poorly written C++ code, otherwise things are looking very positive right now.

The next stage will be for me to flash my Apple X1900 with the ROM from a PC version of the card. Anyone want to help me out and start scouring the web for this?
 
giantrobot said:
Wait to see what Apple does for the old Mac Pros because this will be you in one or two years. OSX is great but the fact is your 3000 dollar Mac Pro will be a crippled system when the next generation cards come out. PCs will be able to do everything your Mac can do but your Mac may not be able to run graphics intensive applications properly.

This is so disappointing from a company that has garnered so much good will over the past few years. Not only has Apple destroyed loyalty in an entire consumer base but one loud dissatisfied customer will undo hundreds of good word of mouth recommendations. Apple: Your entire market for the new Mac Pros will come from either current owners or new owners. Other than the initial sales from the current owners who have been waiting, who will buy these machines? The recent purchasers will not replace their Mac Pros with the new machines because we will remember this bitterly. New customers will invariably ask us before purchasing and they will hear about this as well.
Click to expand...

Good post. I have a 5 month old MacPro 8 core. I've been using macs since 1988. If I can't upgrade to this graphics card then they've lost a customer forever. It's basically a great big f-you to existing high paying loyal customers.
 
Status: On Hold

Milestones Reached:

1) Wrote a GUI for atiflash.exe and created a bootable CD-ROM for it.

2) Got Natit.kext running under Leopard.

3) Learned how UGA operates.

Summary:

So, here's the deal guys. I tried it with my X1900 and it's not working. The best guess at this point is that the X1900 itself isn't being initialized due to the lack of a PC-BIOS.

EFI includes support for emulating PC-BIOS features, hence how you can boot into Windows and other non-EFI supported operating systems. What I would need is for EFI to load that during pre-boot.

The problem is, I don't know if that will prevent a normal EFI boot sequence.

To be honest, EFI programming is over my head; I can learn, but it's going to take time and resources.

During my experiments tonight, I poked around with the 7300GT EFI firmware a bit and noticed a few interesting things. Assuming Apple fixes the EFI issue with the 8800GT, I can almost guarantee you that we will easily get 9000 series cards working when they're released.

So, that said, I'm putting my work on hold until we get a confirmation from Apple on the 8800s.
 
timb said:
Status: On Hold

Milestones Reached:

1) Wrote a GUI for atiflash.exe and created a bootable CD-ROM for it.

2) Got Natit.kext running under Leopard.

3) Learned how UGA operates.

Summary:

So, here's the deal guys. I tried it with my X1900 and it's not working. The best guess at this point is that the X1900 itself isn't being initialized due to the lack of a PC-BIOS.

EFI includes support for emulating PC-BIOS features, hence how you can boot into Windows and other non-EFI supported operating systems. What I would need is for EFI to load that during pre-boot.

The problem is, I don't know if that will prevent a normal EFI boot sequence.

To be honest, EFI programming is over my head; I can learn, but it's going to take time and resources.

During my experiments tonight, I poked around with the 7300GT EFI firmware a bit and noticed a few interesting things. Assuming Apple fixes the EFI issue with the 8800GT, I can almost guarantee you that we will easily get 9000 series cards working when they're released.

So, that said, I'm putting my work on hold until we get a confirmation from Apple on the 8800s.
Click to expand...

You could also take a look here for inspiration ;)
 
Email from Jobs

to a random individual is odd. There would be some kind of official response from a moderator or someone representing customer care on the site for this...not a private response to one person from the top man at Apple.

Its almost beyond the realm of possibility that backwards compatibility was overlooked. Did Apple overlook this for the two years better cards were available? The more likely scenario is that a decision was made over a year ago during development of the new Mac Pro to hold back on a graphics card upgrade for the obvious reason of increasing sales of the new Mac Pro. Permitting the upgrade now runs counter to this strategy and until we actually hear something official from Apple, there is no reason to believe they will allow this now.

I can only hope that some idiot in their corporate sales came up with this idea on his own because the strategy already relies heavily on the belief that its Mac Pro customer base is and will continue to be made up of morons.

i will wait for something official before i believe they are working on this. until then, i hold off on that subcompact i was going to buy to replace my 12 inch powerbook. if i wait to long, then that powerbook gets replaced by a vista sp2 machine and my current mac pro gets replaced by a new motherboard and chip and graphics card for my p4 pc that is currently enjoying its retirement as a media center.
 
timb said:
Status: On Hold

Milestones Reached:

1) Wrote a GUI for atiflash.exe and created a bootable CD-ROM for it.

2) Got Natit.kext running under Leopard.

3) Learned how UGA operates.

Summary:

So, here's the deal guys. I tried it with my X1900 and it's not working. The best guess at this point is that the X1900 itself isn't being initialized due to the lack of a PC-BIOS.

EFI includes support for emulating PC-BIOS features, hence how you can boot into Windows and other non-EFI supported operating systems. What I would need is for EFI to load that during pre-boot.

The problem is, I don't know if that will prevent a normal EFI boot sequence.

To be honest, EFI programming is over my head; I can learn, but it's going to take time and resources.

During my experiments tonight, I poked around with the 7300GT EFI firmware a bit and noticed a few interesting things. Assuming Apple fixes the EFI issue with the 8800GT, I can almost guarantee you that we will easily get 9000 series cards working when they're released.

So, that said, I'm putting my work on hold until we get a confirmation from Apple on the 8800s.
Click to expand...

Well done in getting as far as you have in such a short time. I think you're right to put it on hold pending a resolution from Apple.

A response like this from "the guvner" is not without precedent in such cases and the brusque tone and brevity of the email fits with his style as has been seen before. Personally, I'm satisfied that adequate steps are being taken to ensure this is a non-issue in the long run.
 
timb said:
Status: On Hold

So, here's the deal guys. I tried it with my X1900 and it's not working. The best guess at this point is that the X1900 itself isn't being initialized due to the lack of a PC-BIOS.
Click to expand...

Good work - you're already way out of my league, so I'm glad someone who has a better idea of what they are doing is at least poking around.

If Apple is prompt with a fix we should be able to get a lot of PC cards working fully dual platform on the Mac, which is great news.
 
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