Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?

[jjahshik32]

Not sure what you are saying but you do have to unplug your monitor from your video card everytime you boot and it is a royal pain. Its also bad for your hardware as it was not meant to be constantly unplugged.

Also, your off the shelf card may not work as is. Many high end graphics cards now require separate 4 pin power connectors..the kind mac pros do not have so you will have to find a work around.

Just buy a converter to match the mac pro's pin (alot of people did this with the nvidia 8800gtx that they bought for the pc version and flashed its rom to work with the mac pro and does it fine). I think the converter cable is like $12.99 or something. I mean if your that dedicated to playing games, and absolutely love the mac pro for its raw power under osx, you could do this little work around.

Unless your a huge majoor gamer then just build your own rig and do the sli stuff probably can build one around $1200 or something.

For me though, I do like playing fps under windows *I'm waiting to play crysis* for my damn 8800gt to arrive I think like 2 more weeks left until it ships.. and play 90% of the games on my xbox 360/ps3.

 

[kingtj]

re: unplugging/re-plugging video

No... not necessarily true. Many LCD monitors have multiple VGA inputs. My Dell does, and a Hyundai 22" at my work does too. You can attach one card to input A, and the other card to input B, and switch between them with a button on the front of the display.

You're right about many graphics cards having that 4-pin "molex" power connector on them, though. Macs used to use those for their CD/DVD-ROM drives' power though - so you could tap off of that cable with a cheap Y-splitter cable. Not sure if the latest Mac Pros still have that option, or if their DVD burners have gone to "SATA" connections instead?

Not sure what you are saying but you do have to unplug your monitor from your video card everytime you boot and it is a royal pain. Its also bad for your hardware as it was not meant to be constantly unplugged.

Also, your off the shelf card may not work as is. Many high end graphics cards now require separate 4 pin power connectors..the kind mac pros do not have so you will have to find a work around.

 

[jjahshik32]

You're right about many graphics cards having that 4-pin "molex" power connector on them, though. Macs used to use those for their CD/DVD-ROM drives' power though - so you could tap off of that cable with a cheap Y-splitter cable. Not sure if the latest Mac Pros still have that option, or if their DVD burners have gone to "SATA" connections instead?

I think the mac pros use the 4 pin molex for the optical drives, because I remember on one of the threads that someone who used the pc version of the nvidia 8800gt plugged it in (as a temporary solution until the converter cable was shipped to him) on the empty optical drive and worked fine.

 

[giantrobot]

I'm seriously interested what some of you are actually doing with your Mac Pros that justifies this much outcry about not immediately having the latest video card offering?

EG. Benchmark testing I saw done on the new 8800GT in the 2008 Mac Pro showed that some functions in Apple's Motion software actually had BETTER frame-rates using the ATI X1900XT card. Obviously, this is a software/driver related issue, since the 8800GT hardware is clearly superior ... but I'm just saying. Some of you in a big hurry to have the latest thing will only end up updating to a SLOWER solution for you needs than what you had before, until the drivers and software catches up.

And if you're REALLY doing such time-critical work that the improvement in speed of a newer video card saves you that much time and money, then why can't you just invest in the latest machines?? It's not like you wouldn't get any resale value out of the older generation Mac Pros. Even PowerMac G5 towers a generation older than those fetch well over $1000 each on eBay right now. And you'd have 800Mhz bus speeds and RAM to boot, vs. the 667Mhz stuff.

Well..that solves the entire problem. I can just buy a new Mac Pro and it will automatically update my graphics card! Simple and elegant.

 

[jjahshik32]

Either way, if your not a professional in the graphics department and is buying the mac pro clearly for gaming, then it would be wise to buy a pc rig thats much cheaper to do all your gaming and quit whining about the mac pro with the older card or why its taking so long.

But if your like me who loves using the mac pro for its #1 reason which is pure desktop workstation under osx then by all means get one and on the side play games under windows (and I'd expect most people buying the mac pro for workstation reasons doesnt care too much about gaming on the windows side). Even the x1900 could play crysis with medium settings pretty well and my hd 2600xt card which is seriously underpowered compared to the x1900 card can do crysis at all low settings (played it a bit).

But if its for mostly gaming look away from the mac pro and just buy a pc rig with all the sli goodness and pick up a mbp for osx reasons.

 

[giantrobot]

I think the mac pros use the 4 pin molex for the optical drives, because I remember on one of the threads that someone who used the pc version of the nvidia 8800gt plugged it in (as a temporary solution until the converter cable was shipped to him) on the empty optical drive and worked fine.

Please. I do not want to be rude but you regulars need to go back and read the thread to understand what people are upset about. Apple sells these machines as upgradeable but offers no upgrade path. Having a choice of 2 cards for the entire life of a machine is little more than an integrated graphics chip. Apple could have easily offered the 8800 upgrade for the old Mac Pros but they did not.

 

[jjahshik32]

Please. I do not want to be rude but you regulars need to go back and read the thread to understand what people are upset about. Apple sells these machines as upgradeable but offers no upgrade path. Having a choice of 2 cards for the entire life of a machine is little more than an integrated graphics chip. Apple could have easily offered the 8800 upgrade for the old Mac Pros but they did not.

But wasnt it always like this since the g5's??

Anyway I did hear that they are working on a 32bit rom for the nvidia 8800gt to work with the previous gen mac pro's and I'm eager for it to come because that would determine if my mac pro will be upgradable in the gpu side by next year as well, so just everyone only thing to do is just wait it out.

And I believe since the 8800gt version of the mac pro (newer mac pro) takes so damn long to ship maybe their working on an update for the nvidia 8800gt to fix bugs and problems while shipping the individual cards late so they wont sell too much of the individual cards and before the next update from nvidia? I wouldnt be surprised if by next month or two the 8800gt card from apple will ship within 24 hours and came out with a new update for the graphics card and update for the previous gen mac pro to accept the 64bit rom that are implemented on the 8800gt cards or apple releases the 8800gt card for mac pro previous gen.

 

[fotofan]

]I'm seriously interested what some of you are actually doing with your Mac Pros that justifies this much outcry about not immediately having the latest video card offering?[/SIZE]

EG. Benchmark testing I saw done on the new 8800GT in the 2008 Mac Pro showed that some functions in Apple's Motion software actually had BETTER frame-rates using the ATI X1900XT card. Obviously, this is a software/driver related issue, since the 8800GT hardware is clearly superior ... but I'm just saying. Some of you in a big hurry to have the latest thing will only end up updating to a SLOWER solution for you needs than what you had before, until the drivers and software catches up.

And if you're REALLY doing such time-critical work that the improvement in speed of a newer video card saves you that much time and money, then why can't you just invest in the latest machines?? It's not like you wouldn't get any resale value out of the older generation Mac Pros. Even PowerMac G5 towers a generation older than those fetch well over $1000 each on eBay right now. And you'd have 800Mhz bus speeds and RAM to boot, vs. the 667Mhz stuff.

Well, both on the Mac Pro at home and the other one at work, I use Aperture a lot. And because I do have the ATI 1900 on the one at work, I can tell you that the stock 7300 card at home leaves me with lots of beachballs that I don't get with the 1900. I'd rather get the 8800 to upgrade the 7300, especially given all the stories of the 1900's that have overheated and died.
But really, do you think it's unreasonable to expect better than the meager (7300) and the flawed (1900) choices that owners of the older Mac Pro's currently have? This is not a matter of wanting the latest and greatest, just a good top quality video card for my Mac Pro.

 

[OZMP]

i would like to know if anyone could help me to re-flash a 38xx card using 2600 firmware like netkas did with the hackintosh, i dont have much technical knowledge, but am willing to try it, and if it fails, i will use it under boot camp.

If anyone can help, please shoot me a private message as i am leaving the thread.

Cheers,

 

[giantrobot]

But wasnt it always like this since the g5's??

Anyway I did hear that they are working on a 32bit rom for the nvidia 8800gt to work with the previous gen mac pro's and I'm eager for it to come because that would determine if my mac pro will be upgradable in the gpu side by next year as well, so just everyone only thing to do is just wait it out.

And I believe since the 8800gt version of the mac pro (newer mac pro) takes so damn long to ship maybe their working on an update for the nvidia 8800gt to fix bugs and problems while shipping the individual cards late so they wont sell too much of the individual cards and before the next update from nvidia? I wouldnt be surprised if by next month or two the 8800gt card from apple will ship within 24 hours and came out with a new update for the graphics card and update for the previous gen mac pro to accept the 64bit rom that are implemented on the 8800gt cards or apple releases the 8800gt card for mac pro previous gen.

They are not going to give us a card voluntarily. If there was something in the works, we would get an official announcement. More to the point, they would have already done it when they had the chance back when they were making the card for the new Mac Pros.

The ONLY way old mac pro owners will get this card if they voice their dissatisfaction loudly.

 

[Og Oggilby]

i would like to know if anyone could help me to re-flash a 38xx card using 2600 firmware like netkas did with the hackintosh, i dont have much technical knowledge, but am willing to try it, and if it fails, i will use it under boot camp.

If anyone can help, please shoot me a private message as i am leaving the thread.

Cheers,

Hope it works, I'd love to be able to use an ATI Radeon 3870 X2 in my one year old "supposedly upgradeable, but apparently not so much" Mac Pro. This video card situation really stinks. Unless Apple steps up, my next system will be a PC.

 

[contoursvt]

Wonder what percentage of the Apple computer sales are Mac Pros vs their other products. Maybe the problem is that they cant be bothered thinking the numbers are too low to justify

 

[ungraphic]

I say we start harassing apple through regular phone calls and emails.

 

[antzona]

I have been calling and emailing various contacts at Apple and several online technology news sources since this problem originally developed. The last thing I heard was from Steve Jobs himself and he told me:

nVidia is engineering this card, which we will distribute. They are not done yet.

Steve

I have posted this message three times in this thread, but it is the closest thing to an official comment from Apple I have heard or read. I received this message on Feb. 9th. I don't know if he was lying just to get me to stop bothering him, but that would have been more easily achieved by simply ignoring me. I have emailed him a few times over the last few days and asked him to check this thread and view the petition. I haven't heard anything else from him.

I work at an elementary school and I pretty much make all our decisions as far as technology is concerned. I have emailed the Apple account reps that handle my school district to find out what is happening with this issue and the last word I got from them was on January 28th. All they said was:

Hi John,

I don't know what the final offering will be, but it sounds like you should stay tuned!

Sandy

So it has been well over a month since I last heard from anyone and I am feeling like they are forgetting about us. It is most likely a financial decision.

I think I need to email engadget again and have them run a follow-up on the earlier story I got them to run on this issue.

 

[ungraphic]

I have been calling and emailing various contacts at Apple and several online technology news sources since this problem originally developed. The last thing I heard was from Steve Jobs himself and he told me:

nVidia is engineering this card, which we will distribute. They are not done yet.

Steve

I have posted this message three times in this thread, but it is the closest thing to an official comment from Apple I have heard or read. I received this message on Feb. 9th. I don't know if he was lying just to get me to stop bothering him, but that would have been more easily achieved by simply ignoring me. I have emailed him a few times over the last few days and asked him to check this thread and view the petition. I haven't heard anything else from him.

I work at an elementary school and I pretty much make all our decisions as far as technology is concerned. I have emailed the Apple account reps that handle my school district to find out what is happening with this issue and the last word I got from them was on January 28th. All they said was:

Hi John,

I don't know what the final offering will be, but it sounds like you should stay tuned!

Sandy

So it has been well over a month since I last heard from anyone and I am feeling like they are forgetting about us. It is most likely a financial decision.

I think I need to email engadget again and have them run a follow-up on the earlier story I got them to run on this issue.

sounds good.

id like to email steve jobs personally too, give him my tuppence worth. whats the proper email address we should send our emails to?

 

[yergi]

ok, hold on

so... hold on a second... I could just plug in the mac 8800 along with my 7300, right?
That way my machine can boot using the 7300 EFI and I could use the 8800 in OS X, right?
When using windows via bootcamp, I could just disable the 7300 all together... please correct me if my thinking is wrong. I am tiered of waiting for another excuse.


(I will never buy another mac pro after this debacle)

 

[ungraphic]

so... hold on a second... I could just plug in the mac 8800 along with my 7300, right?
That way my machine can boot using the 7300 EFI and I could use the 8800 in OS X, right?
When using windows via bootcamp, I could just disable the 7300 all together... please correct me if my thinking is wrong. I am tiered of waiting for another excuse.


(I will never buy another mac pro after this debacle)

that seems like a somewhat feasible solution. i'd like to see someone try it out.

unless of course, steve jobs actually owns up to his 'mac pro upgradeability' claims.....

 

[giantrobot]

so... hold on a second... I could just plug in the mac 8800 along with my 7300, right?
That way my machine can boot using the 7300 EFI and I could use the 8800 in OS X, right?
When using windows via bootcamp, I could just disable the 7300 all together... please correct me if my thinking is wrong. I am tiered of waiting for another excuse.


(I will never buy another mac pro after this debacle)

After scouring the web looking for anecdotal evidence that this sort of thing will work, I will save you the trouble and give you my findings here.

You can run pretty much any card in bootcamp but its a completely different story when you want to boot back into OSX. I dont think you can ever get a non apple EFI card to work with OSX just by plugging it into a slot and the best you can hope for is that it doesnt get in the way of your normal card. There are apparently some people who actually take their card out when they boot into OSX as they mostly use bootcamp but its not something I want to do.

If your card is Ok while you are running OSX, you can unplug your video cable from your new card back into your apple card...its better than removing the card but I still dont want to crawl under my desk and do this everytime i use OSX.

The hackintosh people have these cards working with OSX but its not simply plug and play. They have written third party drivers and they apparently need to tinker a bit with the bios or EFI.

One person here did manage to get the ATI 3870x2 to work in his Mac Pro but its not clear if this was with all of the hackintosh tinkering or if he simply plugged it in. Also, I was under the impression he had a 2600 card in there as well and was unplugging his video cable and replugging it back into the 2600 when running OSX..but I am not sure about this. He did mention the 3870 fans went nuts when he was running OSX for some reason. It does seem that ATI cards might be more likely to work than Nvidea cards as seem to be ATI drivers included in 10.5.2.

Also, remember that you need to separately purchase the ATI 1900 power cable as there is no place in the Mac motherboard for the 6 pin molar to 4 pin cable that comes with the card. Do not try to run this off your superdrive cable as someone did try this and it did not work. Unfortunately, this cable is only available from ATI and you will not find it/or a converter easily. I have actually been looking for awhile without success.

So in other words, the only hope is to try and run an ATI card and buy the cable. Search this board for 3870 and you will see that one poster did seem to get this working but its unclear how much he had to do to get this done.

 

[antzona]

sounds good.

id like to email steve jobs personally too, give him my tuppence worth. whats the proper email address we should send our emails to?

It's sjobs at apple.com

 

[macMonte]

the REAL question

I have a 2.66 Mac Pro, 4gb RAM with the X1900. When Starcraft II eventually comes out, do you think the 8800GT will be necessary? I know there aren't any specs for the game out yet, but just look at the screenshots!

I know there has to be other Blizzard fan boys in this thread drooling over this game. Anyone in the same boat as me? Think the X1900 can cut it?

 

[trainguy77]

I have a 2.66 Mac Pro, 4gb RAM with the X1900. When Starcraft II eventually comes out, do you think the 8800GT will be necessary? I know there aren't any specs for the game out yet, but just look at the screenshots!

I know there has to be other Blizzard fan boys in this thread drooling over this game. Anyone in the same boat as me? Think the X1900 can cut it?

I am sure the x1900 will be able to play the game. The questions if it can play it max settings, on what resolution.

Starcraft I was amazing on what it was able to run on, i would think they would do the same for Starcraft II. But we will see. Either way it will run for sure.

 

[SolidShadow]

The silence from Apple and Nvidia on this matter is a little difficult for me. I have to assume that if they say say it is being worked on, I have to trust that it is in fact being worked on.

Fact: Lack of graphic upgrades took a year of life off my last pro ranked machine. I had hoped that this time would be different.

The bottom line is, I want a good graphics upgrade, if there were no plans to make one I would prefer if Apple and or Nvidia would just come out and say so. In that case I would dump my money on an X1900 right now and be done with it. In the current situation with some hints but no concrete news either way, I am spending nothing.

If they want my money they will officially announce something one way or the other. Either way I'll spend something. As things currently sit, I will spend nothing.
They want money right?

 

[Sean Dempsey]

Guys, Steve said it's being worked. We should close this thread until he releases another statement on 8800gate.

 

[ungraphic]

The silence from Apple and Nvidia on this matter is a little difficult for me. I have to assume that if they say say it is being worked on, I have to trust that it is in fact being worked on.

Fact: Lack of graphic upgrades took a year of life off my last pro ranked machine. I had hoped that this time would be different.

The bottom line is, I want a good graphics upgrade, if there were no plans to make one I would prefer if Apple and or Nvidia would just come out and say so. In that case I would dump my money on an X1900 right now and be done with it. In the current situation with some hints but no concrete news either way, I am spending nothing.

If they want my money they will officially announce something one way or the other. Either way I'll spend something. As things currently sit, I will spend nothing.
They want money right?

To be honest, if I had known about all this a year ago when buying my mac initially, I would have bought a normal PC and installed a hacked copy of OSX and have whatever video card i wanted (almost). Sad that I have to 'steal' OS X to get what I should be getting as opposed to paying for it legit. I've been thinking of getting an X1900 XT as well and 'be done with' but I'm wondering how the card performs at 1920x1200 resolutions in counter strike source and Half Life 2 episode 2. I know the 8800GT will do just fine at max settings.

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

Guys, Steve said it's being worked. We should close this thread until he releases another statement on 8800gate.

Maybe we should....
Nah. The mob is assembled, the pitchforks sharpened, torches lit, tar boiling, and the feathers are plucked from the chickens! I'm afraid, my friend, the time for patient waiting has come and past.
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light!