I think Apple has been spoiled by the iPod's success. Steve Jobs must think we will just turn around and buy a new workstation every year because the the new one has a couple new features. The big wigs at Apple (and Micro$oft) are so out of touch with normal people they don't realize that a workstation is a big purchase for most people and that upgrades are important to get your money's worth (and justify the added cost for "expandability") when buying a Mac Pro.
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Upgrading old Mac Pro to 8800 GT graphics?
- Thread starter Fezzy
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Well, you're right, I should have done that originally, build a nice PC and not bother with the MP. But it was nice to have a Mac for work that could also game. Seeing that the MP is just an oversized Mac mini changes things. MBP does just fine for my work so I'll get rid of the MP while I can still get some money for it.
I don't have a Mac Pro myself but shouldn't you guys be doing something other than complaining on this forum about it? It sucks, but I don't think this is going to help. How about starting a petition, getting it on Digg, getting the story covered on large website, or trying to get someone high up at Apple to say something on the matter? If it's lots of people who complain about there aught to be a reply from Apple eventually.
There is a petition. I emailed around 12 news sources about this issue, two of which ran stories, Engadget and Apple Insider. We have been calling and writing all contacts at Apple and nVidia. We are doing everything in our power. I have emailed Steve Jobs at least 20 times over the last couple months. I've only received one response, but I'm not going to let him forget this issue. This thread is a place where people can share news and their experience in regard to this issue. It is far from being the only thing being done about getting the video card we deserve.
Yes, you would think that Apple would officially reply if your suggestions had been done. The sad thing is they have been done. I (and many others) signed a petition months ago. People have emailed Steve Jobs directly and supposedly received the reply that the problem is "being worked", and there was a rumored reply from Nvidia that they are working on it also. The story has been covered on large websites. The only official announcement from Apple has been that the new video cards do not work in the "old" (for some a month or two old) Mac Pros. I suspect the only problem "being worked" is the bad press from this issue. I do hope that I am wrong.
What is the working email that you have sent to Steve? We should post the petition on more of the major Mac sites. Maybe you can share with our your email to Steve and we can put together an email campaign from here by posting a couple emails direct to different mediums and have those in this as well as other forums email this to Steve and company... If we let up, nothing will happen. I have to agree with a previous poster that compared the Mac Pro to a Mini or iMac since other then adding mem or storage, that is about as much upgradeability one gets out of a Mac Pro. This is no way t treat customer, but I guess that Steve and Company forget that there is more than just a hardware sales here, there is also the Pro Apps that Apple sales (Aperture and Shake for me) where they will loose the money on.
Let's get more involved, push this along to the media and get a real campaign to put our request forward.
JM
Here's the petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/geforce8800/
Only ~2400 people signed so far.
I signed it. If I would have known last October when I bought a 3 thousand dollar machine that the already out dated ATI card was the best I could ever run was the end of the line, I would not have bought the computer. That is ridiculous and really horrible customer service. Hopefully the rumors of a future compatible card are true but knowing Apple we will not know until it is release/announced on the website
Hello,
I also tried to contact NVidia, to ask them about EFI.
Basically, they just told me that they cannot (or more accurately, do not want to) help, they only provide the 32bit EFI driver to Apple which might eventually release a card ...
If you want the details, the discussion thread is available here: http://boeglin.org/~alex/nvidia_fails_to_deliver.html
I also tried to contact NVidia, to ask them about EFI.
Basically, they just told me that they cannot (or more accurately, do not want to) help, they only provide the 32bit EFI driver to Apple which might eventually release a card ...
If you want the details, the discussion thread is available here: http://boeglin.org/~alex/nvidia_fails_to_deliver.html
True that statikcat,
Mine was $3200.00 after tax, and since then assuming I could upgrade, I installed 4 gig ram and 1.5 TB of HD space. I also know the woodcrest processors can be swapped out for clovertowns(at the price of half a new machine), but that would void the warranty, and the dumbass's (i mean geniuses) at my local store say it absolutely cannot be done. Hogwash.......
Can anyone verify that all these other hi-tech cards will work if one chooses not to boot into OS X? There is actually way more choices in the software I am interested in, using windoz anyway..................................
Mine was $3200.00 after tax, and since then assuming I could upgrade, I installed 4 gig ram and 1.5 TB of HD space. I also know the woodcrest processors can be swapped out for clovertowns(at the price of half a new machine), but that would void the warranty, and the dumbass's (i mean geniuses) at my local store say it absolutely cannot be done. Hogwash.......
Can anyone verify that all these other hi-tech cards will work if one chooses not to boot into OS X? There is actually way more choices in the software I am interested in, using windoz anyway..................................
Wow!!!!!!!! I read the thread that pipomolo42 posted. Sounds like Apple wants us to buy a new machine real bad.
Could we get everyone to sign the Petition ASAP?
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/geforce8800/
Also, we need email to Nvidia... we should start to ask for the EFI 32bit ROM.
Looks like they have provided to Apple from what Alexandre is posting....
Maybe this is a faster venue, if we get it documented, then we could use the Media to put more pressure on
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/geforce8800/
Also, we need email to Nvidia... we should start to ask for the EFI 32bit ROM.
Looks like they have provided to Apple from what Alexandre is posting....
Maybe this is a faster venue, if we get it documented, then we could use the Media to put more pressure on
its really disgusting how steve jobs has manipulated and milked us and continues to do this with each week that passes by. the lack of any decent video card upgrade should be unforgiven and made *VERY* clear to the public about buying a mac, specifically first time mac buyers. id expect this sort of negligence from a relatively young company, but from apple, having this not get the attention it should id sad.
where is my upgrade path that steve jobs claimed when he revealed the mac pro?
where is my upgrade path that steve jobs claimed when he revealed the mac pro?
Based on Jobs' message that the issue was being "worked" very early in this thread, the email I received from him on Feb. 9th saying nVidia was engineering the card and Apple would distribute it, and pipomolo42's conversation with nVidia, I am hoping that we will finally see the card in early April. I would also not be too surprised if it ended up being a 9800 instead of an 8800. Of course, this is just speculation built on the few clues we have received over the last three months, but that is all we have to go on.
If we don't get the card by mid-April I will have to intensify my efforts to get to the bottom of this. I am not sure what I will do, but I am not going to let them forget about this. I will bombard them with a blitzkrieg of annoyance that will pummel them into action.
Even if we get the card in early April, this has been a unprofessional mess on many levels, and has taught me a lesson. I bought my Mac Pro, cinema display, 6GB of ram, and two extra 500GB hard drives thinking that it would last five years. The lack of real options for video card updates has cut it's life down to around three years, I would estimate. This will definitely be my last Mac Pro. I am not sure what I will do for my next computer, but it won't be a Mac Pro.
If we don't get the card by mid-April I will have to intensify my efforts to get to the bottom of this. I am not sure what I will do, but I am not going to let them forget about this. I will bombard them with a blitzkrieg of annoyance that will pummel them into action.
Even if we get the card in early April, this has been a unprofessional mess on many levels, and has taught me a lesson. I bought my Mac Pro, cinema display, 6GB of ram, and two extra 500GB hard drives thinking that it would last five years. The lack of real options for video card updates has cut it's life down to around three years, I would estimate. This will definitely be my last Mac Pro. I am not sure what I will do for my next computer, but it won't be a Mac Pro.
Hackintosh.
Piss away as much money as you can on the best Asus motherboard you can with the fastest supported RAM (better than FB RAM) and support for next gen. processors. Not only will it perform CLOSE TO the mac pro, but it will outperform it in games easily (core 2 quad extreme blows everything out of the water). As for graphics cards by going the hackintosh way, you get a wiiiiide range of choice.
I'm fairly certain I will be doing that next time. The only downside is the physical case of the computer. Oh well.
I am also very disappointed by not even having a single type of graphics card upgrade available. Especially since the 'new' Mac Pro has an option for a better card. This is just u huge kick in the customer's face. I am seriously thinking about ditching Apple...
Well, if all else fails, how possible is it to sue them over it? I mean they did make an official statement that they would fix the problem, if they don't, it might count as like, false advertising or something? I'm sure there's people who have bought older Mac Pro's second-hand, counting on the fact that they could update the graphics card, like Apple promised.
Here's to hoping there will be a card soon.
Here's to hoping there will be a card soon.
I don't understand why everyone is angry with Apple because ATI and nVidia haven't made any after market video cards that work with the Mac Pro. Just because Apple put PCI-e slots in the Mac Pro doesn't imply that they will make video cards available in the future.
Also, from my understanding, it's nVidia who wrote incompatible firmware for the 8800GT not Apple.
Lastly, I don't recall any "offical" statement from Apple regarding offering a version of the 8800GT that will be compatible with the 1st gen Mac Pros.
I understand the frustration, but, please, don't blame Apple for all the ills of the world.
Also, from my understanding, it's nVidia who wrote incompatible firmware for the 8800GT not Apple.
Lastly, I don't recall any "offical" statement from Apple regarding offering a version of the 8800GT that will be compatible with the 1st gen Mac Pros.
I understand the frustration, but, please, don't blame Apple for all the ills of the world.
I would never blame Apple for all the ills of the world, just the ones they are responsible for. It's been rehashed several hundred times in this thread, and honestly I don't want to waste my time justifying feeling disappointment in Apple for not making sure that a video card that could easily work in older Mac Pros actually works. Ultimately it was Apple's responsibility to make sure the card would work in both newer and older Mac Pros. They originally thought that it would work in older Mac Pros, that is why the Apple Store did not originally say the card was for newer Mac Pros specifically. They didn't realize it was incompatible until after hundreds, possibly thousands, of older Mac Pro owners had already ordered the card. They had to scramble and call us to let us know that it wouldn't work in our computers. They then amended the product details on the Apple Store. Steve Jobs told me that nVidia is now engineering an upgrade for older Mac Pros that Apple will sell. It is Apple's fault that this issue wasn't taken care of before they erroneously sold us cards that were incompatible. No not all the world's ills are Apple's fault, but some of them are.
Don't you think nVidia is wrong for coding the firmware improperly?
If Steve Jobs told you they're working on a fix, why continue to belly ache?
Because nVidia does exactly what Apple tells them to do when engineering cards destined for Apple computers.
I have been expressing my concern since the issue arose in early January. When Steve Jobs replied to my email on Feb. 9th, I believed him and my opinion of the situation changed. It has been 44 days since that email and we have yet to hear official word from Apple. The work required to make this card compatible with older Mac Pros would not take 44 days to complete under any reasonable circumstances. This worries people.
As time passes this situation looks more and more like Apple is simply hoping we stop complaining and they can forget about it. When we get tired of our older Mac Pros with outdated video cards we'll come running to an Apple Store to buy new Mac Pros.
It really isn't that unreasonable for us to express our frustration with this situation. Most of the bellyaching I have read or participated in has been in response to people who are unaffected by this issue making purposefully inflammatory remarks or naive comments that show a lack of compassion with regard to our frustration.
Even you said that Apple was unaware that the 8800GT didn't work in the 1st gen Mac Pros. Doesn't this tell you that Apple didn't tell nVidia to write firmware that would block usage in 1st gen Mac Pros?
I have no idea what's involved in writing firmware, but I agree that 44 days seems long.
Like I said, I understand the frustration. But there's little to nothing anyone can do if ATI and nVidia don't make compatible cards for Macs. This isn't new, Macs have always been neglected in terms of video cards and has gotten worse since ATI got acquired by AMD.
I still feel Apple is no responsibility for offering upgraded video cards. Nothing was implied when the machines were originally sold. People here suggesting lawsuits seems foolish to me. I think placing efforts on petitioning ATI/AMD and nVidia to offer after market cards might be time better spent.
P. S.: I owned a 1st gen Mac Pro and, now, own an early '08 Mac Pro. I'd love to see more video card options as much as the next guy.
Well, the newer ATI card (2600) in the 2008 Mac Pros works in the older Mac Pros, so no need to petition them.
The reason nVidia and ATI don't take the initiative to design a bunch of cards for Apple, is because the market is so small. They only do what Apple requests of them. Apple didn't request 32bit EFI in the two new cards for the Mac Pro. nVidia followed Apple's instructions, while ATI added both 64bit and 32bit EFI to their card. Evidently both 32 and 64 can't fit simultaneously on the nVidia 8800GT, so it takes any entirely new card. nVidia didn't write code that blocked the card from working in older Mac Pros they just didn't add the necessary code to make it work in older Mac Pros. They didn't do this because Apple didn't tell them to. I don't think it was intentional. It was a mistake. A mistake that is worthy of an official explanation. Since Apple is evidently run by Arthur Fonzarelli that hasn't happened.
In this case, everyone who bought a Mac Pro knew that they weren't going to have 20 cards to choose from 6 months down the line. However, this computer was advertised as the most expandable Mac ever. That means you can upgrade more than the hard drive or RAM, which you can do with any Mac. It should mean that after 18 months there is at least one more option as far as video cards are concerned. Apple store employees were making sales while telling customers that there would be new video cards at some point in the near future.
I don't have $3,000 to spend on a new computer every year. I want to get 5 years out of this investment and that isn't going to happen unless they come through and correct the mistake that they made.
The reason nVidia and ATI don't take the initiative to design a bunch of cards for Apple, is because the market is so small. They only do what Apple requests of them. Apple didn't request 32bit EFI in the two new cards for the Mac Pro. nVidia followed Apple's instructions, while ATI added both 64bit and 32bit EFI to their card. Evidently both 32 and 64 can't fit simultaneously on the nVidia 8800GT, so it takes any entirely new card. nVidia didn't write code that blocked the card from working in older Mac Pros they just didn't add the necessary code to make it work in older Mac Pros. They didn't do this because Apple didn't tell them to. I don't think it was intentional. It was a mistake. A mistake that is worthy of an official explanation. Since Apple is evidently run by Arthur Fonzarelli that hasn't happened.
In this case, everyone who bought a Mac Pro knew that they weren't going to have 20 cards to choose from 6 months down the line. However, this computer was advertised as the most expandable Mac ever. That means you can upgrade more than the hard drive or RAM, which you can do with any Mac. It should mean that after 18 months there is at least one more option as far as video cards are concerned. Apple store employees were making sales while telling customers that there would be new video cards at some point in the near future.
I don't have $3,000 to spend on a new computer every year. I want to get 5 years out of this investment and that isn't going to happen unless they come through and correct the mistake that they made.