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But.... but they did it first! So we are okay to be worse than them! We can be totalitarian because they are more totalitarian and they did it first! :mad:
We can close whatever business in the name of national security. But when China enacts national security law, we must punish them!
And no, it’s not hypocrisy, it’s justice!

/s
 
Then vote him out and we can all go back to the good old days when the US was actually a nice country to live in and visit.


You have no idea what you're talking about. Please provide some forensic evidence of the spyware, not some propaganda website/blog claiming it's there. People claimed the same thing in the TikTok tread and while I provided what data is actually collected, there's no evidence of any issues with national security - no one was able to post any proof.

Please provide peer reviewed publication, if you have found something on your own, forward this as well and I'll give it to our cybersecurity research group just down the hall from my research group. Our security guys are pretty good at what they do, among the best in the world. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear your expertise.

The actual issue is threefold:
1) There likely isn't spyware (which is a method of stealing data surreptitiously).
2) There is a huge amount of data gathered and collected by normal use of such apps - in exactly the same way that I'm adding to Mac Rumours' data right now with this post. As an aside, if someone was developing an AI bot and training it with our forum posts, I'd be confusing the heck out of it with my Britishisation of Mac Rumours. The kind of data they're collecting is manifestly more useful.
3) Trump and Pompeo are morons. They've likely been made aware of 2 but have no idea that it doesn't mean the same thing as 1. Also, people eat it up and parrot it without a care about reality.

Also, in the wider sense of these apps and "data" being collected, I'd wager they're more pissed that it's somewhere they can't access/spy on it than they are about China having it. If it was stored in the UK with backdoors they'd have no such issues.
 
That is plain wrong. Chinese companies in America operate under US law. American companies in China operate under Chinese law. As it should be.

There is no such thing as a global American law where you set the rules for everyone else.

Sure, each country has laws. Problems arise when you mix very different systems like Western democracies and China's totalitarian communism.
 
They are not mixed. They operate independently of each other.

And it is ”communism” only by name. Gosh, you want to fight China, but you don't even know what you are fighting. You are fighting ghosts. Or windmills. Why fight at all? They don't fight you.

Sure, each country has laws. Problems arise when you mix very different systems like Western democracies and China's totalitarian communism.
 
Lots of Chinese in America depend on WeChat to communicate with family back home. It’s ridiculous to think WeChat steals anymore data than say Facebook... Especially in a sandboxed system like iOS. Do people really think WeChat deploys hacks to steal contacts on phones (at least on iOS)? If they did you know the other social media platforms are doing the same thing...

It's not about hacking. Apparently in China it is in the law, any business has to comply with government requests for information and assistance. This means WeChat or TikTok can gather all kinds of information and China's government can get access to all of it if there is a request. For example, China's government planners and schemers can get all kinds of information about foreign countries and citizens that goes way beyond a common census.
 
US courts are not going to challenge Pompeo, as the codeword national security has been uttered, even though it is against international law, WTO rules and so on.

Same thing in China, actually. The state does not get involved in trivial commercial cases.

Except the judiciary in China is an arm of the CCP. In the US, it's independent of the Administration.
 
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They are not mixed. They operate independently of each other.

And it is ”communism” only by name. Gosh, you want to fight China, but you don't even know what you are fighting. You are fighting ghosts. Or windmills. Why fight at all? They don't fight you.

When a Chinese auto company or steel company or telecom company can sell products competing directly with Western businesses then it's mixed. For example, Huawei has a special relationship with China's government. Because the "home market" is "protected" from foreign competition they can sell their technology in foreign markets cheaper or at a loss to crack into markets and drive-out competitors.

"Communism only by name"... Obviously it's not a democracy. Maybe Jinping is China's new emperor?
 
The US has invited Chinese competition into our marketplace and we have empty factories and towns dying. They have raped and pillaged the areas we have invited them in - you really want to see that happen to our tech industry as well? China does not play by the rules. If this were a French company, German company, whatever - I would say this is insane, locking out foreign competition. But China has never played by the rules, ever, and have locked US competition out of their economy. How does inviting them benefit the US? Please, enlighten me.

American victim mentality on full display. We have empty factories and towns dying because *American* companies outsourced the work to low-cost China out of corporate AND *American* investor greed. Small stores have disappeared because *American* citizens decided to save a few bucks by going to Walmart instead that neighborhood store.

The situation you describe was entirely American-made. China just provided the cheap labor.

It is true that China doesn't always play by the rules. It does what it thinks is in its country's best interest, not what's in the US's best interest. When it doesn't play by American rules while engaging in the American market, there have to be consequences. But what are the rules? If US had made it clear that Chinese software companies can only operate in the US if US companies can operate as freely in China, then these companies would have never begun operating in the US. We let them start here, knowing that FB, Google, etc. aren't allowed in China. So, we're changing the rules. But we're not even admitting that we're changing the rules - instead, the Administration is pretending this is done out for 'national security reasons', with no evidence to support that claim.
 
Yes, Xi is China’s new emperor. Glad you realized that.

The home market is not protected. The first installment of the Great Firewall was built by Cisco, Ericsson and other Western companies, and they continue to build networks in China on strict market conditions of best bidding.

The only one doing protectionism these days is Zdrumpf.

When a Chinese auto company or steel company or telecom company can sell products competing directly with Western businesses then it's mixed. For example, Huawei has a special relationship with China's government. Because the "home market" is "protected" from foreign competition they can sell their technology in foreign markets cheaper or at a loss to crack into markets and drive-out competitors.

"Communism only by name"... Obviously it's not a democracy. Maybe Jinping is China's new emperor?
 
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin

I do not need the government to protect me from myself. I can make these choices. If the government was afraid for its own security that is a different story but that is not how this is being pitched. This is a restriction of my freedom of choice by my government and I cannot support that.
 
I think it's a good move overall, although they are walking a fine line. I'm talking about Hong Kong. There are a lot of app and game developers based in Hong Kong. Since USA no longer looks at Hong Kong as an individual entity, but as part of China as a whole, there can be a lot of collateral damage.
 
American victim mentality on full display. We have empty factories and towns dying because *American* companies outsourced the work to low-cost China out of corporate AND *American* investor greed. Small stores have disappeared because *American* citizens decided to save a few bucks by going to Walmart instead that neighborhood store.

The situation you describe was entirely American-made. China just provided the cheap labor.

It is true that China doesn't always play by the rules. It does what it thinks is in its country's best interest, not what's in the US's best interest. When it doesn't play by American rules while engaging in the American market, there have to be consequences. But what are the rules? If US had made it clear that Chinese software companies can only operate in the US if US companies can operate as freely in China, then these companies would have never begun operating in the US. We let them start here, knowing that FB, Google, etc. aren't allowed in China. So, we're changing the rules. But we're not even admitting that we're changing the rules - instead, the Administration is pretending this is done out for 'national security reasons', with no evidence to support that claim.


You aren't making great points. American companies outsourcing work to China means they helped modernize China. In return China's government makes more nukes and strengthens its military and becomes antagonistic.

Apparently China's government thinks it is in their best interest to burn bridges with the West, esp. the US.
 
I know, Donald loves being a dictator and admires China. Why doesn't he just ban everything that isnt' American and you can have your own Intranet too. Hell the rest of the world wouldn't miss you either!
 
American victim mentality on full display. We have empty factories and towns dying because *American* companies outsourced the work to low-cost China out of corporate AND *American* investor greed. Small stores have disappeared because *American* citizens decided to save a few bucks by going to Walmart instead that neighborhood store.

The situation you describe was entirely American-made. China just provided the cheap labor.

It is true that China doesn't always play by the rules. It does what it thinks is in its country's best interest, not what's in the US's best interest. When it doesn't play by American rules while engaging in the American market, there have to be consequences. But what are the rules? If US had made it clear that Chinese software companies can only operate in the US if US companies can operate as freely in China, then these companies would have never begun operating in the US. We let them start here, knowing that FB, Google, etc. aren't allowed in China. So, we're changing the rules. But we're not even admitting that we're changing the rules - instead, the Administration is pretending this is done out for 'national security reasons', with no evidence to support that claim.

Rules change all the time. China threw out US journalists earlier this year, even though the US allows Chinese journalists and their propaganda outlets to continue working in the US. China changed the rules in regards to Hong Kong, despite its agreement with the UK, and is changing the rules when it comes to territorial sea claims, despite international maritime agreements.

In regards to tech, the US no longer wants Chinese companies sending American's information back to China, and China is just going to have to get used to it.
 
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Yes, Xi is China’s new emperor. Glad you realized that.

The home market is not protected. The first installment of the Great Firewall was built by Cisco, Ericsson and other Western companies, and they continue to build networks in China on strict market conditions of best bidding.

The only one doing protectionism these days is Zdrumpf.

I have never been to China...

"The first instalment"? What does this mean, in 1970?

China's government has to monitor and censor network traffic. If Western companies are selling network tech in China it's only because they have to partner with a Chinese company and this Chinese company has the 51% stake in the relationship, the driver's seat.
 
I do not support the Trump administration on any level but THIS I agree on completely. Why is it somehow ok for China to ban western apps and companies but not ok if going the other way around?
Because they are an authoritarian system and the US (supposedly) is not? What's next, build a US version of the Great Firewall to keep the network "clean"?

If you want to prevent apps from spying on people, strengthen the privacy laws and apply them to all apps. But of course, that would also affect Facebook, Google (and, by corollary, the FBI, NSA) etc., so we can't have that.
 
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