USB-C is the Future- but why not leave 2 USB ports?

[CaptRB]

I can only presume YMMV by having limited USB-C devices

This has nothing to do with adaptors, plugs converters dongles etc to legacy devices or USB-A ports etc

USB-C has not simplified the potential numerous different cables you still require to connect 2 different devices in a USB-C to USB-C configuration

If anything it has made it more complicated as you need to understand the cable specifications and your ports fully before you attempt to interchange else it may simply not work, give poor results or downgraded performance and at it's extreme damage your device

Other than not being able to plug the cable the wrong way around because eg TB3 has piggy backed itself to USB-C standard whilst making it easier for PC/laptop OEM's it's added no real value to the user in cable terms now or potentially in the future .

Until there is a one do it all cable is supplied by all OEM's the average user will be left with an array of specs and cables to decipher and carry around (ie no change or improvement)

IMO USB-C is one step forward and 2 steps backwards currently for cable selection for USB-C to USB-C

More and more hilarious!

I own multiple DSLRs, large format pro printer and laser, 4K projector, 4 external drives, twin 4k monitors, 55 Bavaria and 70 inch Samsung displays.

I'm horrified to report that it all works perfectly with USB-C. The HDMI adapter and tiny USB adapters (which now terminate the old connectors permanently) are all that was needed. My thumb drives have been switched over to dual A/C style. Our new phones are all USB-C.

Did I mention that everything works perfectly? Since I require connectivity that far exceeds what most people need, please point out where my workflow has been impacted.

Anyone?

Anyone at all?

uh huh.


R.

 

[Chancha]

More and more hilarious!

I own multiple DSLRs, large format pro printer and laser, 4K projector, 4 external drives, twin 4k monitors, 55 Bavaria and 70 inch Samsung displays.

I'm horrified to report that it all works perfectly with USB-C. The HDMI adapter and tiny USB adapters (which now terminate the old connectors permanently) are all that was needed. My thumb drives have been switched over to dual A/C style. Our new phones are all USB-C.

Did I mention that everything works perfectly? Since I require connectivity that far exceeds what most people need, please point out where my workflow has been impacted.

Anyone?

Anyone at all?

uh huh.


R.

We have talked about this in the other "legacy ports" thread and you didn't seem to understand so I will give it another shot here. There are many many professions on earth, that the daily routine is to enter an environment where you have absolutely no control and have no time to react. Whatever you bring to the scene you have to work with. The situation is much easier handled if the laptop has more conventional "current" ports which at least eliminate some potential issues. Just with HDMI, the handshake, HDCP, and EDID are already enough to be dealt with, I don't need a USB-C adaptor in the chain to play more dice with.

 

[vipergts2207]

We have talked about this in the other "legacy ports" thread and you didn't seem to understand so I will give it another shot here. There are many many professions on earth, that the daily routine is to enter an environment where you have absolutely no control and have no time to react. Whatever you bring to the scene you have to work with. The situation is much easier handled if the laptop has more conventional "current" ports which at least eliminate some potential issues. Just with HDMI, the handshake, HDCP, and EDID are already enough to be dealt with, I don't need a USB-C adaptor in the chain to play more dice with.

Seems that you'll be moving on from the MBP to another laptop then.

 

[Chancha]

Seems that you'll be moving on from the MBP to another laptop then.

I actually bought a decked out 2015 15" right after the 2016 announcement. In computing terms it may be an inferior machine, especially when compared to the recent 2017 refresh, but having some "legacy ports" on hand while running macOS native has proven to be a solid foundation as a problem solver machine.

To me, an USB-C/TB3 only laptop has lot to prove, or it is pre-maturely released. I am glad that some users like the folk above found it completely satisfactory, but the question at hand is how the 15"tbMBP being the ceiling option among Apple's laptop lineup while being self-limiting to this degree.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I actually bought a decked out 2015 15" right after the 2016 announcement. In computing terms it may be an inferior machine, especially when compared to the recent 2017 refresh, but having some "legacy ports" on hand while running macOS native has proven to be a solid foundation as a problem solver machine.

To me, an USB-C/TB3 only laptop has lot to prove, or it is pre-maturely released. I am glad that some users like the folk above found it completely satisfactory, but the question at hand is how the 15"tbMBP being the ceiling option among Apple's laptop lineup while being self-limiting to this degree.

I'm 99.999% sure USB-A ports aren't coming back to Apple's portable computers.

So are you saying you'll never buy another Macintosh laptop ever again?

 

[vipergts2207]

I'm 99.999% sure USB-A ports aren't coming back to Apple's portable computers.

So are you saying you'll never buy another Macintosh laptop ever again?

That's a good point because adapters are going to be needed for the foreseeable future. HDMI isn't coming back and will likely be around in other devices for years. Same with USB-A as well. The "environments that people can't control" will persist for years. I guess Apple should let their laptop features and design stagnate for at least another decade just in case one of these professionals may need a legacy (or soon to be) port.

 

[Chancha]

I'm 99.999% sure USB-A ports aren't coming back to Apple's portable computers.

So are you saying you'll never buy another Macintosh laptop ever again?

How did you get to that conclusion from what I typed. What I meant was, any USB-C only laptop is pre-mature product that is inherently being incompatible to some if not most of the tech around us, therefore the 2015 MBP can still be considered a more suitable professional choice *for now*. I am sure one day will come where an all USB-C MBP makes perfect sense but it is not now, not until then I may consider buying one.

That's a good point because adapters are going to be needed for the foreseeable future. HDMI isn't coming back and will likely be around in other devices for years. Same with USB-A as well. The "environments that people can't control" will persist for years. I guess Apple should let their laptop features and design stagnate for at least another decade just in case one of these professionals may need a legacy (or soon to be) port.

On the unibody MBP Apple used the mDP port along with FW800 for a few gen, then as soon as Intel finalized the form factor of Thunderbolt to be the same as mDP, Apple subsequently upgraded the port to be TB while still keeping the FW. Only until retina MBP came along then FW was finally phased out, along with ethernet port since they both were too tall to allow the thinner chassis of the retina. The point being, Apple used to offer a brace period for smoother transition of I/O standards, it definitely didn't take them a decade to get rid of that one FW port, they did it when most of the users were ready. And like you said, HDMI and USB-A are both much more prevalent, they may live alongside USB-C for a very long time. If Apple's philosophy is to offer the more powerful I/O while sacrificing immediate real world needs then they should at least have the decency to offer dongles out of the box.

 

[SteveJUAE]

More and more hilarious!

I own multiple DSLRs, large format pro printer and laser, 4K projector, 4 external drives, twin 4k monitors, 55 Bavaria and 70 inch Samsung displays.

I'm horrified to report that it all works perfectly with USB-C. The HDMI adapter and tiny USB adapters (which now terminate the old connectors permanently) are all that was needed. My thumb drives have been switched over to dual A/C style. Our new phones are all USB-C.

Did I mention that everything works perfectly? Since I require connectivity that far exceeds what most people need, please point out where my workflow has been impacted.

Anyone?

Anyone at all?

uh huh.


R.

The only thing hilarious yet sad is your comprehension and sheer lack of understanding

I'm happy your little world of plugs and dongles etc work for you as it would for many with such a modest home set-up

This is not the point we are discussing on USB-C to USB-C cables consitancy

But thanks for the laugh

 

[BarracksSi]

I'm more pissed off that the iMac Pro doesn't read 5 1/4" floppies.

 

[CaptRB]

This is now beyond hilarious!

Some guy above talks about walking into environments where he's worried that USB-C somehow won't work with the few adapters he'd need.

No one in this thread connects to what I do, from computer controlled telescopes to high end medium format camera backs and 4K projectors. I had the 13" running the Mitsubishi 4K projector a few days ago. It also had no issues with the Sony VPL line true 4K.

I own this gear and I have no issues. I also work in a field where connecting to monitors and projectors is done all the time. These is NO ISSUE with the USB-C at all. This mythical notion that a dongle is some sort of shaky unstable element is just that....MYTHICAL.

The reason why you few people can't make your point is because you're talking to a pro who actually owns the machines and uses them to connect to pretty much everything. Any of you using large format Epson and Canon printers? Any of you working with Hasselblad cameras or D810s or modified Celestron CPC SCT telescopes?

If ANY of you could actually prove a point instead of making stuff up, the majority of experienced owners here would be thrilled.

I'm sorry, but this crying nonsense is based on absolutely nothing and none of you really have an experienced valid point whatsoever. BTW, my 13" touchbar is at this very moment running a Rega DAC beautifully and connected to Manley amps. Total synergy. SHOW us something that doesn't work.


R.

 

[vipergts2207]

On the unibody MBP Apple used the mDP port along with FW800 for a few gen, then as soon as Intel finalized the form factor of Thunderbolt to be the same as mDP, Apple subsequently upgraded the port to be TB while still keeping the FW. Only until retina MBP came along then FW was finally phased out, along with ethernet port since they both were too tall to allow the thinner chassis of the retina. The point being, Apple used to offer a brace period for smoother transition of I/O standards, it definitely didn't take them a decade to get rid of that one FW port, they did it when most of the users were ready. And like you said, HDMI and USB-A are both much more prevalent, they may live alongside USB-C for a very long time. If Apple's philosophy is to offer the more powerful I/O while sacrificing immediate real world needs then they should at least have the decency to offer dongles out of the box.

You missed my point. You said, "There are many many professions on earth, that the daily routine is to enter an environment where you have absolutely no control and have no time to react."

What happens 6 or 7 years from now when you go into an environment that's stuck on USB-A or HDMI? Should Apple still have been supporting these ports on their laptops that far down the road just because someone may 'need' it?

 

[turbineseaplane]

What happens 6 or 7 years from now

Why don't we worry about 6 or 7 years from now...in 6 or 7 years?

Right now...USB-C is nowhere even remotely close to even in the area code of ubiquity that justifies going all in on only USB-C ports on the Pro line of laptops.
[doublepost=1497297240][/doublepost]Right now I'm looking at my 2015 15" which has TB2/DP plugs on one side and HDMI on the other..

Why did crazy old Apple provide me with such a convenient HDMI port in addition to the TB/DP ports when they could have just rammed "buy a dongle" down my throat as the answer to HDMI needs?

At one time they cared more about providing something that's helpful for me and my needs above whatever is easy/thin/sexy for them.

It's frustrating.

 

[Queen6]

The only thing hilarious yet sad is your comprehension and sheer lack of understanding

I'm happy your little world of plugs and dongles etc work for you as it would for many with such a modest home set-up

This is not the point we are discussing on USB-C to USB-C cables consitancy

But thanks for the laugh

USB C is nowhere in real world, believe me I get round it Thing is if it works for you all power to you, equally as you have stated it's messy; Apple has no dock, Apple has no fix for dongles & adaptors that fail to connect, equally as such a small percentage of Apple's customers are "professionals" it's clear Apple could care less.

Apple's best seller is Apple and they work extremely hard to ensure the faithful keep buying into it to keep those dollars turning. The "Pro" thing with Apple is just hilarious these days, fully expect to be offered a "Pro" bag next time I make purchase

Q-6

 

[Chancha]

You missed my point. You said, "There are many many professions on earth, that the daily routine is to enter an environment where you have absolutely no control and have no time to react."

What happens 6 or 7 years from now when you go into an environment that's stuck on USB-A or HDMI? Should Apple still have been supporting these ports on their laptops that far down the road just because someone may 'need' it?

The key is time. Is it really that hard a concept to grasp. If an MBP model with both USB-C + USB-A remains for lets say 3 years, then finally transit to full USB-C at the 4th, the tech world would have much higher USB-C penetration, especially in high bandwidth situations replacing Thunderbolt 2. I seriously don't see how much potential bandwidth or PCI-lane is lost if a single USB-A port is present on the 2016. Or if it will make the chassis thicker, for the matter.

 

[xsmi123]

OP, That's not how Apple rolls...

http://www.macworld.com/article/1133334/original_imac.html

 

[CaptRB]

I'm more pissed off that the iMac Pro doesn't read 5 1/4" floppies.

Don't forget: When Apple pulled the integrated superdrive CD/DVD from their systems, everyone yelled "Too soon!" and "It's not a pro machine anymore!"
People literally were crying because carrying the inexpensive external drive was going to cause divorces and worsen global warming. Oddly, a computer company with a history of quality innovation seemed to know more than a few folks burning CDs on laptops. The #1 post production house in NYC is using the new MacBooks, and I'd optimistically suggest that they have FAR greater connectivity requirements than anyone here, including me.

R.

 

[OneMike]

I definitely get it that USB-C is the future....but why didn't Apple at least leave 2 of the ports for legacy gear.
I can't even charge my current year iPhone on it.

--The Iphne 8 won't even work with it- if rumirs are true it will use the same port as last year.
-- Powerbeats?- no dice there too as it's USB-micro.
-- Ipad? old USB

What are we supposed to stick in there? The only that uses them or will use them in the future is Android phones.

Why not transition it with half USB-C and half USB?

What use is four ports nothing they make plugs into? What am I missing?

The average person that buys Apple products will just accept whatever they do and buy their products anyway, even if they complain. That's the short answer for why they do such things.

 

[Queen6]

You missed my point. You said, "There are many many professions on earth, that the daily routine is to enter an environment where you have absolutely no control and have no time to react."

What happens 6 or 7 years from now when you go into an environment that's stuck on USB-A or HDMI? Should Apple still have been supporting these ports on their laptops that far down the road just because someone may 'need' it?

If your a "professional" and using a 6-7 year old computer your doing something wrong, that's all I can say. Personally I rotate all my systems at 24 months, as the cost of the hardware is irrelevant in comparison to the revenue generated.

As for USB C it's without any doubt the future, equally not relevant currently outside of a few use cases and this forum. It will take time to evolve and grow acceptance. In the meantime a USB C only can be and is an additional burden. I know as I already own two...

Q-6

 

[Chancha]

Don't forget: When Apple pulled the integrated superdrive CD/DVD from their systems, everyone yelled "Too soon!" and "It's not a pro machine anymore!"
People literally were crying because carrying the inexpensive external drive was going to cause divorces and worsen global warming. Oddly, a computer company with a history of quality innovation seemed to know more than a few folks burning CDs on laptops. The #1 post production house in NYC is using the new MacBooks, and I'd optimistically suggest that they have FAR greater connectivity requirements than anyone here, including me.

R.

In music production, the loss of internal CD drives had mastering systems walked away from Apple, and then later the loss of PCI cards in the nMP took mixing desk cores as well which needed high bandwidth DSP cards. External Thunderbolt "solutions" never met the required bandwidth and/or reliability standard, extra cost notwithstanding. Call yourself lucky if your wide spectrum of professional needs are still covered by Apple's agenda, when next time they shuffle the deck.

 

[vipergts2207]

The key is time. Is it really that hard a concept to grasp. If an MBP model with both USB-C + USB-A remains for lets say 3 years, then finally transit to full USB-C at the 4th, the tech world would have much higher USB-C penetration, especially in high bandwidth situations replacing Thunderbolt 2. I seriously don't see how much potential bandwidth or PCI-lane is lost if a single USB-A port is present on the 2016. Or if it will make the chassis thicker, for the matter.

Still ignoring my point. You're not going to see full adoption any time soon, certainly not in 3 years either. These persistent and unpredictable environments are going to mean adapters will still be needed in 3 years and beyond, even if Apple hadn't dumped USB-A until then. There's never going to be a point where you won't need an adapter, even if you wait another 4 years to jump into a USB-C only MBP.

If your a "professional" and using a 6-7 year old computer your doing something wrong, that's all I can say. Personally I rotate all my systems at 24 months, as the cost of the hardware is irrelevant in comparison to the revenue generated.

I was in no way implying that.

 

[Michael Scrip]

How did you get to that conclusion from what I typed. What I meant was, any USB-C only laptop is pre-mature product that is inherently being incompatible to some if not most of the tech around us, therefore the 2015 MBP can still be considered a more suitable professional choice *for now*. I am sure one day will come where an all USB-C MBP makes perfect sense but it is not now, not until then I may consider buying one.

I'm curious what you think is gonna change in the world between "now" and "then"

I really don't think the USB-A plug will ever disappear. So if you stumble across one in the future... you're gonna need an adapter to plug into your USB-C computer.

So if adapters will always be a thing... why not get a new Macbook Pro with USB-C and enjoy it now?

It just seems like you're delaying the inevitable. You recently bought a 2015 MBP because of legacy ports... but that'll be the last time you can do that.

I understand how dongles can be a pain in the butt. But Apple didn't make it impossible to use legacy plugs with newer ports. People make it sound like Apple made a bicycle with square wheels or something.

I get it... right now if someone hands you a flash drive... there's a 100% chance it will be USB-A and that you will need a dongle with a 2016 Macbook Pro.

In 5 years... there might only be a 50% chance that a flash drive someone hands you will be USB-A.

But you'll still need a dongle for the other 50%

So why not embrace the dongle and enjoy new Macs for the next 5 years and beyond?

And let's be honest... previous Macbook Pros only had two USB-A ports anyway.

How many things do you actually plug in at once... or in total?

If I had a new Macbook Pro... I'd need a different cable for my external hard drive... and I'd get a USB-A to USB-C adapter to keep in my laptop bag for other devices.

That would cover me... for around $20...

I wouldn't let ports dictate which computers I buy. But that's just me

 

[turbineseaplane]

I wouldn't let ports dictate which computers I buy.

Depends how much you use them and especially how often you're connecting/disconnecting.

In 5 years... there might only be a 50% chance that a flash drive someone hands you will be USB-A.

That's in five years.
Right now USB-A connections are literally everywhere and USB-C is mostly only found in the tech press.

And I can't speak for others, but I've never kept a Mac laptop for 5 years. As a professional user, too much performance changes in that span and thus for me it makes even less sense to deal with "hassles now that won't be hassles in the future....at a time when I'd already be on to another machine anyhow".

Also, I never like to be outside the time horizon of AppleCare coverage. That's just asking for it in my opinion, especially now that these things are sealed boxes (appliances basically).

 

[Chancha]

I'm curious what you think is gonna change in the world between "now" and "then"

I really don't think the USB-A plug will ever disappear. So if you stumble across one in the future... you're gonna need an adapter to plug into your USB-C computer.

So if adapters will always be a thing... why not get a new Macbook Pro with USB-C and enjoy it now?

It just seems like you're delaying the inevitable. You recently bought a 2015 MBP because of legacy ports... but that'll be the last time you can do that.

I understand how dongles can be a pain in the butt. But Apple didn't make it impossible to use legacy plugs with newer ports. People make it sound like Apple made a bicycle with square wheels or something.

I get it... right now if someone hands you a flash drive... there's a 100% chance it will be USB-A and that you will need a dongle with your new Macbook Pro.

In 5 years... there might only be a 50% chance that a flash drive someone hands you will be USB-A.

But you'll still need a dongle for the other 50%

So why not embrace the dongle and enjoy new Macs for the next 5 years and beyond?

And let's be honest... previous Macbook Pros only had two USB-A ports anyway.

How many things do you actually plug in at once... or in total?

If I had a new Macbook Pro... I'd need a different cable for my external hard drive... and I'd get a USB-A to USB-C adapter to keep in my laptop bag.

That would cover me... for around $20...

I wouldn't let ports dictate which computers I buy. But that's just me

I own perhaps a dozen TB1/2 peripherals, USB2/3 in A, B, micro form factors probably in hundreds. In outbound working environments I probably need to interact with USB-A on an hourly basis if not more frequently. This alone justifies the 2015 as the more ideal solution in foreseeable future. Having only 2 USB3 ports on it is indeed semi-limiting, but in mobile situations where I need 3 ports or more is rare, in which case a simple USB3 hub can be acquired everywhere even if I forgot to grab it. And in local setup the MBP is docked to powered thunderbolt / USB hubs anyway.

If I had a 2016/17MBP in place, I would need 2 USB-A to C adaptors at all times, probably an HDMI / DP multi out, and a multi card reader. If they are left in the bag they are subjected to be forgotten / lost / taken by coworkers. If they are permanently plugged to the MBP then I may as well have never gone USB-C.

By the time I need an upgrade to the MBP, the rest of the tech world will have much larger USB-C presence, and due to supply and demand all such peripherals, cables, adaptors will be cheaper as well, and with more reliable and proven options. If a new Mac could offer the same kind of internal performance bumps like they used to, then you may have a case where to "embrace the dongle and enjoy a new Mac", but for my use-case that's simply counter-productive. By the way my main mobile machine is the MBP2015 but I still keep a 2011 as a Swiss-knife / trouble-shooting machine, since it has TB, FW, ethernet, optical drive, USB2(always hope it's 3).

 

[Michael Scrip]

That's in five years.

Right now USB-A connections are literally everywhere and USB-C is mostly only found in the tech press.

I said in 5 years only 50% of plugs will be USB-C.

You're still gonna need adapters for the other 50%

So if you will still need adapters in 5 years... why wait?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I said in 5 years only 50% of plugs will be USB-C.

You're still gonna need adapters for the other 50%

So if you will still need adapters in 5 years... why wait?

For me the question should be, why bother?
The 2015 I'm using needs no adapters for my workflow..

Why on Earth are people arguing that it's better to have no built in flexibility or super common and convenient ports?

(without adapters...adapters doesn't equal built in)

Why aren't the same people arguing for no headphone jack on the 2016/2017 models too?
Just buy an adapter, right?

Who even needs a screen or a keyboard or trackpad?
You could just plug all of those in too!
/s

(ok - having fun on the last one...lol)