I find hilarious the skirting around the fact that adapters will be needed for years down the road, and will be subject to the same "issues" they are now, i.e., potential of being forgotten, lost, etc. (Some professionals we've got here by the way.)
I find hilarious the skirting around the fact that adapters will be needed for years down the road, and will be subject to the same "issues" they are now, i.e., potential of being forgotten, lost, etc. (Some professionals we've got here by the way.)
I own perhaps a dozen TB1/2 peripherals, USB2/3 in A, B, micro form factors probably in hundreds. In outbound working environments I probably need to interact with USB-A on an hourly basis if not more frequently. This alone justifies the 2015 as the more ideal solution in foreseeable future. Having only 2 USB3 ports on it is indeed semi-limiting, but in mobile situations where I need 3 ports or more is rare, in which case a simple USB3 hub can be acquired everywhere even if I forgot to grab it. And in local setup the MBP is docked to powered thunderbolt / USB hubs anyway.
If I had a 2016/17MBP in place, I would need 2 USB-A to C adaptors at all times, probably an HDMI / DP multi out, and a multi card reader. If they are left in the bag they are subjected to be forgotten / lost / taken by coworkers. If they are permanently plugged to the MBP then I may as well have never gone USB-C.
By the time I need an upgrade to the MBP, the rest of the tech world will have much larger USB-C presence, and due to supply and demand all such peripherals, cables, adaptors will be cheaper as well, and with more reliable and proven options. If a new Mac could offer the same kind of internal performance bumps like they used to, then you may have a case where to "embrace the dongle and enjoy a new Mac", but for my use-case that's simply counter-productive. By the way my main mobile machine is the MBP2015 but I still keep a 2011 as a Swiss-knife / trouble-shooting machine, since it has TB, FW, ethernet, optical drive, USB2(always hope it's 3).
It is a matter of proportion. In the perfect scenario, a laptop would have the number of different flavors of native ports directly proportional to the tech that it needs to interact with. The argument is how far away this new MBP is from the "ideal". If a certain older gen I/O is only active among handful of potential buyers then Apple has every reason to get rid of it. The notion that TB3 as an encapsulating standard is noble, but it remains to be seen if it will fulfil such a role since the rest of the world may or may not catch on as much as Apple hoped to. And for now at least, we haven't reached a point where an USB-C-only machine makes sense, for a majority of users I would say.Still ignoring my point. You're not going to see full adoption any time soon, certainly not in 3 years either. These persistent and unpredictable environments are going to mean adapters will still be needed in 3 years and beyond, even if Apple hadn't dumped USB-A until then. There's never going to be a point where you won't need an adapter, even if you wait another 4 years to jump into a USB-C only MBP.
This is a good question, and Apple chose a drastic approach that apparently is not viewed as appropriately timed by some. This needs careful observation and judgement on part of a manufacturer where a wide spectrum of users in the ecosystem actually use the product as livelihood tools, not just an afterthought. I see Apple has done good transitional machines in the past: the classic Mac Pro 1,1 with both FW400 and FW800, later unibody MBPs and Mac Minis with FW800 and TB1, etc. If the I/O is spread across a wider range of usage time, on the users end there would be a much lessened pressure. If a superior option needs to be the only option on a Mac, then Apple should have the decency to include adaptors out of the box for free. They did it with the DVI to VGA dongle for years. I must have like 15 of them.Thanks for the response!
I want to ask you about this:
"In outbound working environments I probably need to interact with USB-A on an hourly basis if not more frequently."
Do you imagine there ever being a lessened reliance on USB-A?
Otherwise... I'm thinking this will happen:
You will come across USB-A in 2 years.
You will come across USB-A in 3 years.
You will come across USB-A in 4 years.
You will come across USB-A in 5 years.
etc
At what point do you rip off the band-aid and get a new Macbook Pro without built-in USB-A ports?
For me the question should be, why bother?
The 2015 I'm using needs no adapters for my workflow..
Why on Earth are people arguing that it's better to have no built in flexibility or super common and convenient ports?
(without adapters...adapters doesn't equal built in)
Why aren't the same people arguing for no headphone jack on the 2016/2017 models too?
Just buy an adapter, right?
Who even needs a screen or a keyboard or trackpad?
You could just plug all of those in too!
/s
(ok - having fun on the last one...lol)
It's not that black and white.
There can be a balance of having some super commonly used things built in and letting people use adapters for more niche things.
This is literally what they've done for a long time.
If you have very commonly used ports that are being "adapted to" nearly 100% of the time...
You know what would be nice?
Build those ports in..
It is a matter of proportion. In the perfect scenario, a laptop would have the number of different flavors of native ports directly proportional to the tech that it needs to interact with. The argument is how far away this new MBP is from the "ideal". The notion that TB3 as an encapsulating standard is noble, but it remains to be seen if it will fulfil such a role since the rest of the world may or may not catch on as much as Apple hoped to. And for now at least, we haven't reached a point where USB-C only makes sense.
It's not the fact that adapters will be needed in the first place
to avoid the minor inconvenience
Thanks for phrasing it as neutral as you could, because the purchase decision of 2015 over 2016 was not something I would have hoped and it was in large part not very smart, but when one side weighs more than the other then a decision had to be made. The NYC elite above mentioned the 2016 having superior qualities; of course it does, it's ought to have improvements over a long due update. The point is those qualities came bundled with the USB-C only package, for users who found no problems then it's a great deal, for others it became a mixed bag of pros and cons. The 2016 was controversial in that it had even more down-the-throat reality checks: touch bar in place of tactile function keys, butterfly 2 in place of the older gen KB whatever it was called.At least we're finally getting to the crux of the pro-legacy port argument. It's not the fact that adapters will be needed in the first place, as it seems it's finally been acknowledged they'll be needed in the future, just like they are now. It's not the adapters' reliability, (and I believe a portion of the USB-C pinout includes legacy USB-A pins, so a C to A adapter is literally only for the physical connector change, meaning likely 100% reliability.) It's not really that they'll get lost or forgotten.
In actuality, it's about going as far as buying outdated internal hardware just to avoid the minor inconvenience of making two connections instead of one when using a client's equipment, or leaving one of the small C to A adapters to all of one's commonly used personal accessories.
Such a wise decision to choose a older laptop with inferior screen, speakers, trackpad, larger & heavier, slower, no touchbar...all so you can avoid a few bucks worth of adapters.
But look at it this way, Apple was absolutely thrilled to sell those old machines because the margins are awesome on them. The new MBP units sold like hotcakes and continue to do well, so it's a win/win for Apple.
I'm 54. I can "handle" an adapter or two. The upside is that I'm working on the best MBP to date, period. The MPB resistance simply missed out and they KNOW IT. That's why they can't let this go.
One of the people here got so upset that I wouldn't except his vague issues, based on NOT owning the machine, that he put me on his ignore list. That sort of mentality is part of the group that falls away anytime Apple pushes ahead. They can afford the loss.
You may be able to handle it, but I find it impossible to know which way to plug in the USB cables!
And I know lots of people who own Zunes, who smugly walk around and insult people in Apple stores who 100% agree with everything I say. That's why they're my friends
I don't know why people do this, why do some people feel they just need to be an *******. It is a really great way to alienate those around you I can tell you that much. It takes very little effort to be friendly and nice to people.
Who cares if they don't agree or like the same stuff.
"Don't be a dick!" is probably the most important life motto anyone could live by.
No one is forcing you to buy a new machine. But let's be real about the port issue. It's just a non-issue 99.9% of the time. Some guy says what if I forget my adapters? This is the same sort that laments the loss of horrible MagSafe because they could not safely charge their expensive laptop. I have zero care or sympathy for the guy who can't charge his laptop safely nor do I care if he can't pack up his system with the items he needs on the road. I'm just glad this klutzy and forgetful fellow doesn't work in my business!
Would it be nice to plug directly into the machine?
I got over it after one time of use.
This has been an interesting thread to read. The introduction of the original Macbook with just one USB-C port was not bold, it was obnoxious. Yet people came to Apple's defense on that decision which is amazing. I don't think the day is too far off when Apple removes all ports altogether because it's "the future".
Or maybe they could have thrown in a nice assortment of dongles perhaps.
The key is time. Is it really that hard a concept to grasp. If an MBP model with both USB-C + USB-A remains for lets say 3 years, then finally transit to full USB-C at the 4th, the tech world would have much higher USB-C penetration, especially in high bandwidth situations replacing Thunderbolt 2. I seriously don't see how much potential bandwidth or PCI-lane is lost if a single USB-A port is present on the 2016. Or if it will make the chassis thicker, for the matter.
What if I told you that the price to be had for having those precious USB A ports in your laptop is that USB C gets delayed by that much longer?Fair points - But would you acknowledge that it is a much larger and more consistent PITA (USB-A & SD cards specifically for me) for many of us?
It just doesn't seem unreasonable to have offered some transition time/ports for the 2016-2018 period of time. USB-C has a long ways to go in terms of penetrating all over.
Or maybe they could have thrown in a nice assortment of dongles perhaps. Maybe that would have been at least some kind of gesture. Or good lord, at least keep the prices lowered how they had them for a while.
Just super frustrating (again- for some of us - not all, I get that)
I don't know why people do this, why do some people feel they just need to be an *******. It is a really great way to alienate those around you I can tell you that much. It takes very little effort to be friendly and nice to people.
Who cares if they don't agree or like the same stuff.
"Don't be a dick!" is probably the most important life motto anyone could live by.
Completely agree - It's what quickly can turn normal people off of any forum participation.
That's a good point because adapters are going to be needed for the foreseeable future. HDMI isn't coming back and will likely be around in other devices for years. Same with USB-A as well. The "environments that people can't control" will persist for years. I guess Apple should let their laptop features and design stagnate for at least another decade just in case one of these professionals may need a legacy (or soon to be) port.
The new iMacs have USB-A.
The new iMac Pro releasing in 6 months has USB-A.
I bet the Mac Pro 2018 will have USB-A..
iPad / iPhone comes with USB-A cables.
Apple Watch comes with USB-A cables.
There is nothing legacy about USB-A, it is because Apple's greed and vanity about symetry / thinness.
90% of Laptops / Desktops sold today have USB-A. The world doesn't change overnight just beacuse Apple removes USB-A from 2 product lines (Some of thier laptops and Apple TV).
legacy (or soon to be) port