USB-C is the Future- but why not leave 2 USB ports?

[vipergts2207]

I find hilarious the skirting around the fact that adapters will be needed for years down the road, and will be subject to the same "issues" they are now, i.e., potential of being forgotten, lost, etc. (Some professionals we've got here by the way.)

 

[turbineseaplane]

I find hilarious the skirting around the fact that adapters will be needed for years down the road, and will be subject to the same "issues" they are now, i.e., potential of being forgotten, lost, etc. (Some professionals we've got here by the way.)

It's not that black and white.

There can be a balance of having some super commonly used things built in and letting people use adapters for more niche things.

This is literally what they've done for a long time.

If you have very commonly used ports that are being "adapted to" nearly 100% of the time...

You know what would be nice?
Build those ports in..

 

[Michael Scrip]

I own perhaps a dozen TB1/2 peripherals, USB2/3 in A, B, micro form factors probably in hundreds. In outbound working environments I probably need to interact with USB-A on an hourly basis if not more frequently. This alone justifies the 2015 as the more ideal solution in foreseeable future. Having only 2 USB3 ports on it is indeed semi-limiting, but in mobile situations where I need 3 ports or more is rare, in which case a simple USB3 hub can be acquired everywhere even if I forgot to grab it. And in local setup the MBP is docked to powered thunderbolt / USB hubs anyway.

If I had a 2016/17MBP in place, I would need 2 USB-A to C adaptors at all times, probably an HDMI / DP multi out, and a multi card reader. If they are left in the bag they are subjected to be forgotten / lost / taken by coworkers. If they are permanently plugged to the MBP then I may as well have never gone USB-C.

By the time I need an upgrade to the MBP, the rest of the tech world will have much larger USB-C presence, and due to supply and demand all such peripherals, cables, adaptors will be cheaper as well, and with more reliable and proven options. If a new Mac could offer the same kind of internal performance bumps like they used to, then you may have a case where to "embrace the dongle and enjoy a new Mac", but for my use-case that's simply counter-productive. By the way my main mobile machine is the MBP2015 but I still keep a 2011 as a Swiss-knife / trouble-shooting machine, since it has TB, FW, ethernet, optical drive, USB2(always hope it's 3).

Thanks for the response!

I want to ask you about this:

"In outbound working environments I probably need to interact with USB-A on an hourly basis if not more frequently."

Do you imagine there ever being a lessened reliance on USB-A?

Otherwise... I'm thinking this will happen:

You will come across USB-A in 2 years.
You will come across USB-A in 3 years.
You will come across USB-A in 4 years.
You will come across USB-A in 5 years.
etc

At what point do you rip off the band-aid and get a new Macbook Pro without built-in USB-A ports?

 

[Chancha]

Still ignoring my point. You're not going to see full adoption any time soon, certainly not in 3 years either. These persistent and unpredictable environments are going to mean adapters will still be needed in 3 years and beyond, even if Apple hadn't dumped USB-A until then. There's never going to be a point where you won't need an adapter, even if you wait another 4 years to jump into a USB-C only MBP.

It is a matter of proportion. In the perfect scenario, a laptop would have the number of different flavors of native ports directly proportional to the tech that it needs to interact with. The argument is how far away this new MBP is from the "ideal". If a certain older gen I/O is only active among handful of potential buyers then Apple has every reason to get rid of it. The notion that TB3 as an encapsulating standard is noble, but it remains to be seen if it will fulfil such a role since the rest of the world may or may not catch on as much as Apple hoped to. And for now at least, we haven't reached a point where an USB-C-only machine makes sense, for a majority of users I would say.
[doublepost=1497301347][/doublepost]

Thanks for the response!

I want to ask you about this:

"In outbound working environments I probably need to interact with USB-A on an hourly basis if not more frequently."

Do you imagine there ever being a lessened reliance on USB-A?

Otherwise... I'm thinking this will happen:

You will come across USB-A in 2 years.
You will come across USB-A in 3 years.
You will come across USB-A in 4 years.
You will come across USB-A in 5 years.
etc

At what point do you rip off the band-aid and get a new Macbook Pro without built-in USB-A ports?

This is a good question, and Apple chose a drastic approach that apparently is not viewed as appropriately timed by some. This needs careful observation and judgement on part of a manufacturer where a wide spectrum of users in the ecosystem actually use the product as livelihood tools, not just an afterthought. I see Apple has done good transitional machines in the past: the classic Mac Pro 1,1 with both FW400 and FW800, later unibody MBPs and Mac Minis with FW800 and TB1, etc. If the I/O is spread across a wider range of usage time, on the users end there would be a much lessened pressure. If a superior option needs to be the only option on a Mac, then Apple should have the decency to include adaptors out of the box for free. They did it with the DVI to VGA dongle for years. I must have like 15 of them.

 

[CaptRB]

For me the question should be, why bother?
The 2015 I'm using needs no adapters for my workflow..

Why on Earth are people arguing that it's better to have no built in flexibility or super common and convenient ports?

(without adapters...adapters doesn't equal built in)

Why aren't the same people arguing for no headphone jack on the 2016/2017 models too?
Just buy an adapter, right?

Who even needs a screen or a keyboard or trackpad?
You could just plug all of those in too!
/s

(ok - having fun on the last one...lol)

Because, and most will agree, the new machines are superior. So you adopt USB-C "a bit early" in your mind. But you get a slick beautiful faster machine with better screen and speakers...

Check out the current thread on the touchbar as people are starting to really wake up to it. It's only going to get better.

No one is forcing you to buy a new machine. But let's be real about the port issue. It's just a non-issue 99.9% of the time. Some guy says what if I forget my adapters? This is the same sort that laments the loss of horrible MagSafe because they could not safely charge their expensive laptop. I have zero care or sympathy for the guy who can't charge his laptop safely nor do I care if he can't pack up his system with the items he needs on the road. I'm just glad this klutzy and forgetful fellow doesn't work in my business!

This USB debate is simply and utterly without any sound reasoning whatsoever. I mentioned in another thread that my 2015 rMBP had connectivity issues with some displays, ALWAYS with my older Bavaria display. These new machines work perfectly. So as near as I can tell USB-C with an adapter works BETTER than the old legacy ports.

One port rule them all. My new phones, external drives and thumb drives are all USB-C. Game-Over, peoples.


R

 

[vipergts2207]

It's not that black and white.

There can be a balance of having some super commonly used things built in and letting people use adapters for more niche things.

This is literally what they've done for a long time.

If you have very commonly used ports that are being "adapted to" nearly 100% of the time...

You know what would be nice?
Build those ports in..

It is a matter of proportion. In the perfect scenario, a laptop would have the number of different flavors of native ports directly proportional to the tech that it needs to interact with. The argument is how far away this new MBP is from the "ideal". The notion that TB3 as an encapsulating standard is noble, but it remains to be seen if it will fulfil such a role since the rest of the world may or may not catch on as much as Apple hoped to. And for now at least, we haven't reached a point where USB-C only makes sense.

At least we're finally getting to the crux of the pro-legacy port argument. It's not the fact that adapters will be needed in the first place, as it seems it's finally been acknowledged they'll be needed in the future, just like they are now. It's not the adapters' reliability, (and I believe a portion of the USB-C pinout includes legacy USB-A pins, so a C to A adapter is literally only for the physical connector change, meaning likely 100% reliability.) It's not really that they'll get lost or forgotten.

In actuality, it's about going as far as buying outdated internal hardware just to avoid the minor inconvenience of making two connections instead of one when using a client's equipment, or leaving one of the small C to A adapters to all of one's commonly used personal accessories.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's not the fact that adapters will be needed in the first place

Correct - It's more about insisting that we use adapters at this point in time for ports that are SUPER ubiquitous in our workflows and environments.

to avoid the minor inconvenience

That's the point though..It's not a minor thing for everyone. It's contextual.

 

[Chancha]

At least we're finally getting to the crux of the pro-legacy port argument. It's not the fact that adapters will be needed in the first place, as it seems it's finally been acknowledged they'll be needed in the future, just like they are now. It's not the adapters' reliability, (and I believe a portion of the USB-C pinout includes legacy USB-A pins, so a C to A adapter is literally only for the physical connector change, meaning likely 100% reliability.) It's not really that they'll get lost or forgotten.

In actuality, it's about going as far as buying outdated internal hardware just to avoid the minor inconvenience of making two connections instead of one when using a client's equipment, or leaving one of the small C to A adapters to all of one's commonly used personal accessories.

Thanks for phrasing it as neutral as you could, because the purchase decision of 2015 over 2016 was not something I would have hoped and it was in large part not very smart, but when one side weighs more than the other then a decision had to be made. The NYC elite above mentioned the 2016 having superior qualities; of course it does, it's ought to have improvements over a long due update. The point is those qualities came bundled with the USB-C only package, for users who found no problems then it's a great deal, for others it became a mixed bag of pros and cons. The 2016 was controversial in that it had even more down-the-throat reality checks: touch bar in place of tactile function keys, butterfly 2 in place of the older gen KB whatever it was called.

You are also correct in describing the dongle situation. We have always had similar case in the past, especially with Apple portables where thrive to lightness has always been on top of priority list. The argument is this time Apple had too much faith in its decision where they felt no need to ease out the transition in any manner initially. Even the "dongle discount" period was only announced a day or two after the flood of feedbacks following the keynote.

 

[CaptRB]

Such a wise decision to choose a older laptop with inferior screen, speakers, trackpad, larger & heavier, slower, no touchbar...all so you can avoid a few bucks worth of adapters.

But look at it this way, Apple was absolutely thrilled to sell those old machines because the margins are awesome on them. The new MBP units sold like hotcakes and continue to do well, so it's a win/win for Apple.

I'm 54. I can "handle" an adapter or two. The upside is that I'm working on the best MBP to date, period. The MPB resistance simply missed out and they KNOW IT. That's why they can't let this go.

One of the people here got so upset that I wouldn't except his vague issues, based on NOT owning the machine, that he put me on his ignore list. That sort of mentality is part of the group that falls away anytime Apple pushes ahead. They can afford the loss.


R.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Such a wise decision to choose a older laptop with inferior screen, speakers, trackpad, larger & heavier, slower, no touchbar...all so you can avoid a few bucks worth of adapters.

Donglegate is real. I used to have a Thunderbolt-HDMI cable plugged in to use a display (And a TB-DVI before that!), now I need a USB-C-HDMI, for real!? And don't get me started on missing ports either, 10 years ago when it made sense to have a DVD reader it was great! But now, how am I supposed to plug in Netflix!? Apple's brazen attempts to 'push' technology along have resulted in far too many casualties.

But look at it this way, Apple was absolutely thrilled to sell those old machines because the margins are awesome on them. The new MBP units sold like hotcakes and continue to do well, so it's a win/win for Apple.

Come on, we all know Apple spend $1000 on R&D and make these things for about $0.30, and sell them for $7000! Tim Cook is a monster, the company is utterly doomed so long as they charge this much. They will be great again when they go back to making computers for about $300.

I'm 54. I can "handle" an adapter or two. The upside is that I'm working on the best MBP to date, period. The MPB resistance simply missed out and they KNOW IT. That's why they can't let this go.

One of the people here got so upset that I wouldn't except his vague issues, based on NOT owning the machine, that he put me on his ignore list. That sort of mentality is part of the group that falls away anytime Apple pushes ahead. They can afford the loss.

You may be able to handle it, but I find it impossible to know which way to plug in the USB cables! And I know lots of people who own Zunes, who smugly walk around and insult people in Apple stores who 100% agree with everything I say. That's why they're my friends.

R.

Like angry Aunt Irma I completely agree with you, period.

 

[turbineseaplane]

You may be able to handle it, but I find it impossible to know which way to plug in the USB cables!

You'll love USB-C then..
Enjoy!

 

[William Payne]

And I know lots of people who own Zunes, who smugly walk around and insult people in Apple stores who 100% agree with everything I say. That's why they're my friends

I don't know why people do this, why do some people feel they just need to be an *******. It is a really great way to alienate those around you I can tell you that much. It takes very little effort to be friendly and nice to people.

Who cares if they don't agree or like the same stuff.

"Don't be a dick!" is probably the most important life motto anyone could live by.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I don't know why people do this, why do some people feel they just need to be an *******. It is a really great way to alienate those around you I can tell you that much. It takes very little effort to be friendly and nice to people.

Who cares if they don't agree or like the same stuff.

"Don't be a dick!" is probably the most important life motto anyone could live by.

Completely agree - It's what quickly can turn normal people off of any forum participation.

 

[BarracksSi]

If you had told me in 1997 that USB would be everywhere within five years, I would have said, "... U S what?"

 

[killawat]

No one is forcing you to buy a new machine. But let's be real about the port issue. It's just a non-issue 99.9% of the time. Some guy says what if I forget my adapters? This is the same sort that laments the loss of horrible MagSafe because they could not safely charge their expensive laptop. I have zero care or sympathy for the guy who can't charge his laptop safely nor do I care if he can't pack up his system with the items he needs on the road. I'm just glad this klutzy and forgetful fellow doesn't work in my business!

Yep.

To add to this, I had a 2010 17" MBP. While nice, anyone with that machine will quickly acknowledge the lack of thunderbolt or usb 3 (except through express card which had its limitations).
For a while I intended to upgrade to the 2015 but I refused to do so once I understood the promise of USB-C and TB3.

The idea that the all usb-c mbp is some sort of failure is propaganda. I would have never expected apple to release it, mostly because they were so late with tb3 in the first place, however it has far exceeded my expectation. Apple knows this. How? They sent a survey regarding my experience. (This was the controversial one that asked if the headphone jack was necessary on the MBP). Five stars all around. It was a hassle to find quality dongles and cables in those early weeks but now that the dust has settled, there are pages and pages of reviews, everyone can find exactly what they want. I rely on Ethernet everyday and need a dongle to do it. Would it be nice to plug directly into the machine? Yes. But it's not all caps rage like you would suspect from the forums. I got over it after one time of use. Up the road at your local college has students with shiny MBPs and they don't even know or care what Ethernet is because they're wireless all the time. Meanwhile your local DJ has old audio equipment using FIREWIRE 400 and is shocked that the 2017 MBP doesn't include it. But that's ok! A few dongles and cables later, he is back in business. And when I have to upgrade to 10-Gig Ethernet all I have to do is unplug the Ethernet and use a different dongle. Easy.

I get what I want , they have what they need and that guy with the unreasonable demands can continue his work as well.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Would it be nice to plug directly into the machine?

I got over it after one time of use.

Fair points - But would you acknowledge that it is a much larger and more consistent PITA (USB-A & SD cards specifically for me) for many of us?

It just doesn't seem unreasonable to have offered some transition time/ports for the 2016-2018 period of time. USB-C has a long ways to go in terms of penetrating all over.

Or maybe they could have thrown in a nice assortment of dongles perhaps. Maybe that would have been at least some kind of gesture. Or good lord, at least keep the prices lowered how they had them for a while.

Just super frustrating (again- for some of us - not all, I get that)

 

[windows4ever]

This has been an interesting thread to read. The introduction of the original Macbook with just one USB-C port was not bold, it was obnoxious. Yet people came to Apple's defense on that decision which is amazing. I don't think the day is too far off when Apple removes all ports altogether because it's "the future".

 

[turbineseaplane]

This has been an interesting thread to read. The introduction of the original Macbook with just one USB-C port was not bold, it was obnoxious. Yet people came to Apple's defense on that decision which is amazing. I don't think the day is too far off when Apple removes all ports altogether because it's "the future".

What I don't get is why Apple can't have some more diversity in the product line..

I'm totally fine with some laptops with 1 (or none) ports and some with just a few more...
But why can't we have truly "Pro" machines with a plethora of built in ports and configurations that are optional? (and with the latest internals, etc).

Why does every single product and line have to be nothing but as thin and light as possible?
What happened to different tools for different jobs?

 

[killawat]

Or maybe they could have thrown in a nice assortment of dongles perhaps.

agree.

 

[Abazigal]

The key is time. Is it really that hard a concept to grasp. If an MBP model with both USB-C + USB-A remains for lets say 3 years, then finally transit to full USB-C at the 4th, the tech world would have much higher USB-C penetration, especially in high bandwidth situations replacing Thunderbolt 2. I seriously don't see how much potential bandwidth or PCI-lane is lost if a single USB-A port is present on the 2016. Or if it will make the chassis thicker, for the matter.

In reality, what will likely happen is that everyone will continue to use that sole USB A port and neglect USB C. Three years down the road, nothing will have changed.

The lesson that Apple keeps teaching and which others keep ignoring is; to create true meaningful change in a market, you need to force change. By taking bold unapologetic stances. Here’s a touchscreen smart phone without the familiarity of a physical Qwerty keyboard. Here’s a large screen tablet without a desktop OS and desktop apps and file system. Here's a computing device which supports HTML 5 but not flash. Here’s a smart phone without a headphone jack. Here's a laptop with only USB C ports.

Maybe Apple is right here and maybe they aren't. What I find admirable here is that Apple at least has the audacity and the conviction to try.

 

[Abazigal]

Fair points - But would you acknowledge that it is a much larger and more consistent PITA (USB-A & SD cards specifically for me) for many of us?

It just doesn't seem unreasonable to have offered some transition time/ports for the 2016-2018 period of time. USB-C has a long ways to go in terms of penetrating all over.

Or maybe they could have thrown in a nice assortment of dongles perhaps. Maybe that would have been at least some kind of gesture. Or good lord, at least keep the prices lowered how they had them for a while.

Just super frustrating (again- for some of us - not all, I get that)

What if I told you that the price to be had for having those precious USB A ports in your laptop is that USB C gets delayed by that much longer?

Nobody is saying that it doesn't suck. When I bought my MacBook Air in 2012, I had to spring for adaptors too. I bring an Apple TV and a 10-m hdmi cable around with me so I can AirPlay my iPad to the classroom projector. I have a lightning to vga adaptor in my front shirt pocket at all times so I am never caught in an inconvenient situation.

What we are saying is that it will (hopefully) all be worth it in the end.

Remember the story taught by Fight Club - you cannot usher in a new world order without first doing away with the current one.

I have been there. I have done that. And I would do it all over again.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

I don't know why people do this, why do some people feel they just need to be an *******. It is a really great way to alienate those around you I can tell you that much. It takes very little effort to be friendly and nice to people.

Who cares if they don't agree or like the same stuff.

"Don't be a dick!" is probably the most important life motto anyone could live by.

Completely agree - It's what quickly can turn normal people off of any forum participation.

Urr what part of that made you think that was a serious post?

I see a thread like this at least 3 times a week. They go around in circles. It literally states "Why not leave 2 USB ports?" when there are in fact 4 USB ports. People come out and bash USB-C as being the worst thing ever, people come out and complain about dongles, or adapters, or whatever, then people go on living quite happily. Then a few days later another one.

I just don't remember a time when changing an input was as big of a deal for some people. I don't remember serial ports being an issue when they went and people had to upgrade archaic printers, when VGA was replaced by DVI, when 5 1/2" floppy flopped away, when SCSI went, when SATA replaced IDE, when Thunderbolt replaced Firewire, or anything. I mean this is literally, a single change in a port which now works with everything instead of requiring all these different connectors. Something that people have dreamt of for many years, but is now apparently an issue because no one can work out how to plug a $5 adapter in until they get a USB-C cable?

 

[Ries]

That's a good point because adapters are going to be needed for the foreseeable future. HDMI isn't coming back and will likely be around in other devices for years. Same with USB-A as well. The "environments that people can't control" will persist for years. I guess Apple should let their laptop features and design stagnate for at least another decade just in case one of these professionals may need a legacy (or soon to be) port.

The new iMacs have USB-A.
The new iMac Pro releasing in 6 months has USB-A.
I bet the Mac Pro 2018 will have USB-A..

iPad / iPhone comes with USB-A cables.

Apple Watch comes with USB-A cables.

There is nothing legacy about USB-A, it is because Apple's greed and vanity about symetry / thinness.

90% of Laptops / Desktops sold today have USB-A. The world doesn't change overnight just beacuse Apple removes USB-A from 2 product lines (Some of thier laptops and Apple TV).

 

[PBG4 Dude]

The world may not change overnight but I'm plotting my transition. Need to replace the USB-A to USB HDD cable with a USB-C to USB HDD cable. Ooh. Beats the crap out of my TB2 -> FW800 -> FW400 Lego-looking dongle cable to connect up my ancient camcorder to my MBA.

 

[vipergts2207]

The new iMacs have USB-A.
The new iMac Pro releasing in 6 months has USB-A.
I bet the Mac Pro 2018 will have USB-A..

iPad / iPhone comes with USB-A cables.

Apple Watch comes with USB-A cables.

There is nothing legacy about USB-A, it is because Apple's greed and vanity about symetry / thinness.

90% of Laptops / Desktops sold today have USB-A. The world doesn't change overnight just beacuse Apple removes USB-A from 2 product lines (Some of thier laptops and Apple TV).

legacy (or soon to be) port