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"USB-C only" = "Think different"
- Thread starter aevan
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Thank you! Part of the reason I loathe Dongles is because of their stupid name. It's hard to take them seriously.
Well, look at the positive side...we are 50% the way to something better than (and not proprietary like) Lightning
(and I expect and would bet a lot of money the next iPhone will use USB-C.)If the next iPhone uses Lightning, it will be a legacy device upon release, and it would be one of the stupidest decisions in the history of tech. Simply said, USB-C is superior in every way. Apple clearly recognizes its future, and has made a statement regarding their confidence in the technology. (and if, in the insanely unlikely chance, that the next iPhone does use legacy Lightning, I will criticize them intensely, and will call it the real-world equivalence of the Apple Wheel.)
No, that is your take
...
You are looking at this, based on your post, from a individual impact aspect. I'm looking at it from a "now" generation of devices in a family (Apple) and how they interact with new and currently in use. The newest designs from a port perspective are in all probability an advance yet fail to take into account anything currently in use from a physical connection standpoint (you must use a dongle) and fail to ensure near flawless functionality for wireless connectivity.
Progress married to assumptions (that it just works).
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Mac, Windows, Android.
As for Airplay, when it works it works well. When it doesn't ....
limited alternatives.
This just daft rhetoric as the absolute underlying principle and foundation for the USB specifications 3.1 Gen1/2 is legacy support for USB-2/3
Whilst I have no doubt that USB-C ports are the way forward and they project >90% of laptops and >50% of smartphones will have 1 or more USB-C ports by 2020, however there is reported 10,000's of existing devices and accessories vs relatively few currently for USB-C. There may well be projected 2 Billion devices with USB-C in the next 3 or 4 years vs the many billion still in circulation etc and still being sold with USB-A
The USB org's recognise this and so should you
USB-C is only a port that now facilitates a greater range of uses in addition to latest USB specs which is equally available in the USB-A ports. However the USB-C is more compact and has greater scope to expand.
USB-C has already caused much confusion simply by poor labelling, identification and misunderstanding that it is just a port and the specs of I/O etc for that port are now much more complex and dependent on the OEM. Let alone what less scrupulous manufactures have been doing with cables and adapters etc
Whilst many of us can afford $2k laptops, many more struggle to buy their dream machine. Given that Apple have increased the entry point for the MBP by a significant % (ie the $100 delta ignores this) there are large groups of users that simple cannot afford the additional burden now placed on them for dongles, cables adapters let alone swap out existing devices
Add to this the users who could not afford the Apple Tax on increased SSD size and could previously opt for a smaller drive with a supplementary SD card to save a few more $ and don't even think about $1k EDGU addons
I hypothesise that the MBP is probably is at or nearing the limit of USB-C power and those that wished for a bigger battery etc were stiffed by over enthusiasm for USB-C, unless you want the ugly solution of dual port charging.
I also note the essence of having a laptop is mobility (ie pick up and go) and not having little bits and pieces dangling around, some legacy ports gave a far neater and smarter solution to mobility. It's not all about buying some cheap and probably non compliant adapter to add to the clutter of bits you have to cart around else we would still use mouse instead of a trackpad
Larger more powerful laptops for charging will probably not be able to use USB-C charging and cable length limitations will also be problematic for some
Yes USB-C ports are useful and moving forward yet there are many user cases that can give good reason to justify legacy ports and it will take sometime for universal acceptance and we should not so casually dismiss others needs in advancement disguise of technology IMO
I do recognise it. If the new MacBook Pros were unable to use USB-A devices, I would consider it a product with a serious flaw.
Fortunately, that is not the case. All you need is a usb-a to usb-c cable or adapter. So, do not try to change this into something else. All I'm saying - it's not a big deal to have to buy a few new cables. Or carry one small adapter.
We're NOT talking about the usefulness of USB-A devices. I'm going to write this as plainly as I could:
I AM NOT ARGUING THAT USB-A PORT IS A THING OF THE PAST AND IS NOT RELEVANT.
In fact, I'm saying the oposite. USB-A IS still relevant. Let's push to make it irrelevant as soon as possible, because no one really likes it and we have something much better!
It's better to have this minuscule hassle of getting new cables or carrying a few cheap adapters so that we can move to a better port faster. If we do not brute force this - and because a lot of people thinks like you we won't - we'll still have USB-A ports in 2030. And we'll have this transitional period for longer.
History is full of worse standards winning over better ones. Or legacy technologies dragging around for ages. Companies love to keep legacy technologies because they are familiar and easy to make and cheap - and as long as people keep buying them, their profits just increase.
All the more reason to push for usb-c only situation. As for TB3 - I agree, there should be clear labeling there.
So, basically, you're saying "Apple laptops are too expensive for some people and not suitable for their needs." I agree.
That doesn't change the fact that Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. should push for USB-C more aggressively and we should congratulate, not criticize this approach.
If you were keeping it simple you would of not written all that rhetoric about windows sorry you cant claim that one
Whilst you and I may see it a simple transition of a few bits and bobs others will not, be it for convenience or finance
This is not a change in spec, the same standard exists for both ports just USB-C can do more in addition and likewise due to compatibility an adapter can be used in reverse so even less reason to not have a legacy port, currently.
Sorry Apple seem to have already alienated some of the top 15% (Pro's) and now out priced some of the lower end wannabe owners I cannot congratulate Apple on this unless I was a share holder maybe and possibly due to power constraints boxed the MBP in to a further corner of middle ground appeal
USB-C is here to stay I just see no benefit to the masses forcing it down their throats having options is always nice
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As for Airplay, when it works it works well. When it doesn't ....
We have Apple TVs connected to all of our presentation TVs and we airplay via ethernet. Has been working great.
Are those dangling from the display or have you used something like tape to stick it to the back?
We haven't seen such difficulties and we have an environment where we use Mac, Windows and Linux on the clients. USB-C has made things more easy because the accessories are interchangeable.
You couldn't be more wrong here. I'm looking at it from a sysadmin point of view and thus try to envision what possible uses new technology like this has both now and in the future. After all that's my job as a sysadmin. I have to look at tech and see if the business I work can take use of it and how.
Basically it's about answering the question "how will the business benefit from this new tech?". Change the word "business" with "you" and you can adapt it to an individual. That's why the answer to that question differs from person to person and business to business. Sometimes it is better to stick with the old, sometimes it's better to get the latest and greatest.
It is time people started to learn one of the biggest lessons in life: you can't have it all so be happy with what you've got and what's within you reach. That's the difference between being happy and being bitter.
Be fair and realistic about it: Apple has always been expensive and has never been an option for the lower end wannabe owners. They may have alienated some pros but they have also attracted others because of the 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports. Hence why the new MBP is selling better than the previous model.
I think some people are unaware what Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C are doing. We are slowly but gradually moving towards a rather different kind of computing. That's what Satya Nadella meant with his "the phone is dead, you'll see something entirely different" remark. It is going to be far more modular than it is now.
You do have options. You can buy a legacy port adapter for your legacy device.
One port is all you need. If you're an 18 year old or something, buying your first laptop, all of your future device purchases will be USB-C. It's only a problem for people who have an established array of items that use a bunch of legacy ports. It's inconvenient for those people, yes, but it's still the right thing to do.
Furthermore, we need a wireless world. Reducing the variety of connectors, and working to make everything we see wireless is the right direction.
No, it's physics at work. Both the cable and charger gets warm when charging which causes them to expand a little. The problem arises when people wrap the cord because almost everyone does it too tightly because they are unaware of it. The cable will cool down and when it does it will shrink and thus the tight wrap will be even tighter putting more strain on the cable itself. Do this often and the material will fail due to fatigue (in other words the cable will break/rupture). This issue is worsened by the tight angle you wrap the cable due to the close proximity of those wings (it creates knacks and those are weak spots in any cable, wire and rope).
Loosely wrap any cable and make sure the loops are big. That way your cables will last.
@MrX8503 thnx, that's good to know. I've resorted to using brackets and some rails to stick my Thunderbolt dock behind my display. The panel itself is on a QR plate so it is easy to change.
Oh they did, did they? Source of the data, please. Because the latest quarter results shows revenue growth of 14% and that is with just 4% growth of units sold - and most of that is from laptops, so that means expensive laptops - MacBook Pros - are selling really well. I don't know how much of the buyers are "pros", but nothing indicates that Apple alienated 15% of them.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/05/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/
The hate towards new MBPs from some people on these forums is incredible. They are selling well, with good reason too.
You see no benefit?
So, greater reliability, durability and speed, combined with smaller size and the fact that it's universal and reversable - that's not a benefit to you? I am curious, what woud be a real benefit for you? Free coffee? Higher fps in Witcher 3?
And I already explained why "having options" just prolongs the mess of the transitional period we're in.
You can do "heavy" work on them too.
I don't know that any of this section is true. You have Visual C++. That is distributed by Microsoft. You could also use minGW in some situations. It takes up less space. It's odd that you would favor Apple here when typing gcc calls clang instead.
Where do you ever need an additional compiler on Windows where it would be unnecessary in some other environment?
What does this mean?
You can install Linux without compiling a kernel by simply picking some version with a simple installer package (debian, ubuntu, etc). It's not necessary to make installing an OS like Linux into such a complicated procedure unless you need something very specific, in which case OSX might not be suitable anyway.
They might not be, but these concerns sound completely manufactured to me.
Why would you use a dongle if you can use a cable? The cool thing is that USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 allow for a much higher power output to the device that is connected (15W which is even more than the average iPad charger) than the older connections.
Why do you plug your iPhone into your computer anyway? Just plug it into the wall outlet. Why can't you charge your TV through your Mac? I guess it's not advanced
No, you don't have to use dongles, as I said. Just get an usb-c lightning cable. Not only does it work great - it is more advanced, in fact, because it allows usb 3 speeds on the iPad Pro - unlike the old one.
Also, you can also use that cable to charge your iOS devices with MacBook's charger, so you need to carry less chargers.
So, to answer your "how advanced is it" question: very.
Apple still gives thunderbolt to USB-A cables for iPhone...
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Why do you plug your iPhone into your computer anyway? Just plug it into the wall outlet. Why can't you charge your TV through your Mac? I guess it's not advanced
I guess charging your iphone via your MacBook is too "advanced" these days
I own a 2010 MacBook Pro. I have only used Macs but, for the first time, I am thinking about switching to a Windows machine, the Dell XPS 15. I am completely on the fence about what to do and I see both sides of the argument, pro and con, about switching. This thread is fantastic and I shall follow it. Perhaps it will give me some kind of clarity.
I too love photography and I'm gunning for the Sony A9 and so I bemoan the lack of an SD card slot in the new MacBooks. I also hate the idea of dongles and it seems like a step backwards although I get why Apple went with USB-C ports only. At this point you can't have your cake and eat it too. I also am completely familiar with Mac OS and I don't want to learn a new operating system. I've been watching YouTube reviews about the Dell XPS 15 from pro photographers and they seem to love it.
Also, I completely respect the opinion of Louis Rossman who fixes MacBooks and has his own YouTube channel. If anyone knows MacBooks from the inside-out it is Louis Rossman. I can only the guess that the reason Apple would epoxy the hard drive to the chassis is to prevent repairs from 3rd party repair shops. I can't endorse Apples decision and I support Louis Rossman's right-to-repair bill. Just like a car, if I pay money for a computer, I own it and should be able to fix it as I please.
I too love photography and I'm gunning for the Sony A9 and so I bemoan the lack of an SD card slot in the new MacBooks. I also hate the idea of dongles and it seems like a step backwards although I get why Apple went with USB-C ports only. At this point you can't have your cake and eat it too. I also am completely familiar with Mac OS and I don't want to learn a new operating system. I've been watching YouTube reviews about the Dell XPS 15 from pro photographers and they seem to love it.
Also, I completely respect the opinion of Louis Rossman who fixes MacBooks and has his own YouTube channel. If anyone knows MacBooks from the inside-out it is Louis Rossman. I can only the guess that the reason Apple would epoxy the hard drive to the chassis is to prevent repairs from 3rd party repair shops. I can't endorse Apples decision and I support Louis Rossman's right-to-repair bill. Just like a car, if I pay money for a computer, I own it and should be able to fix it as I please.
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I know this may come as a shock, but you are not required by laws of man or nature to use the included USB-A cable! You can totally get an USB-C one (which will almost certainly be included in the new iPhone anyway) and use that.
"But it's not included in the iPhone box!!" - um, yeah? So? It's not like you're breaking an ancient covenant when you get a new cable OUTSIDE the box. Sure, it costs money, but it's, what, 1/100 of MBPs price? You'll be fine. Really.
Just like you had to get new cables when Apple switched from the 30-pin ports to Lightning! If you're into Apple, you know this is what Apple does - whenever there is something better to replace the old thing with - they do it. I'm just surprised people are somehow shocked by this. This is typical Apple.
You can order the new cable together with your new MBP, or buy later. And then all your troubles are gone! Seriously, this is not an issue, unless you're determined to make one out of it.
All jokes aside - is this really such a problem? Did you even try using the new MBP and see how USB-C works in everyday situations, or are you just dismissing the whole port situation because internet?
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While I support user-repairability (is that a word?), Rossman is very biased in this case, as his entire business depends on opening Macs. He also likes to make these rants how Macs suck and says that even though he repairs them, he never used one and doesn't like them. So, I'd take his comments with a grain of salt.
I would prefer if you could just open and repair your own devices, but it's obvious the industry is going in a different direction. I don't think you can easily self-repair MS Surfaces either.
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The Sony A9 uses SDXC as the primary card, and it is faster than any DSLR made. If you expand your view to beyond just still photography, many 4k professional video cameras use only SDXC, e.g, the Panasonic AG-DVX200 and Sony FS5. My documentary video crew often shoots 1 terabyte per day -- all on SDXC.
CF is not faster than the latest SDXC UHS-II cards -- they are faster than CF will ever be. It's true the incompatible CFast cards are faster than SDXC, but then XQD is or will be faster than CFast: http://resourcemagonline.com/2016/1...ttle-is-already-over-stop-buying-cfast/68002/
If Apple had included a UHS-II SDXC slot in the MBP, that would have covered a lot of usage, especially for video. However it's true as you go up the camera ladder the storage types tend to splinter. So depending on what level and type of "pro" use, an external card reader might be necessary. If that is the usage model, then why build an SDXC slot into the MBP? Nonetheless I'd have preferred to see the SDXC slot, but I'm biased because we shoot so much content in that format.
Of course Louis Rossman is biased but aren't we all? Rossman's bias is simply an expert and professional assessment since he repairs MacBooks for a living. Have you ever watched his videos? If he thought Apple made a fine product he would be using one. I don't know anyone more qualified to have an opinion about Apple products than Louis. Have you ever opened up the inside of a computer and fixed it? It's kind of like saying that your opinion about the brain is as valid as as a brain surgeons.
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