Valve Drops Mac Support for SteamVR Less Than Three Years After WWDC 2017 Announcement

[thejadedmonkey]

They did. But whilst I don't like subs services. Apple Arcade and the Mac ARM indicate that Apple no longer wish to support 2nd rate ports or legacy code. And that Mac gaming has a brighter future on the horizon.

Better that than the utter 2nd rate apology that it was.

I got burned during the Adobe PPC to Intel transition...and when Apple suffocated the PPC legacy compat' in its crib.

Azrael.

Apple's never supported legacy. And that's exactly why gamers won't support Apple. What good is $1000 worth of PC components that cost $2500 from Apple, if it can't even run the games I want to play?

With the app store and apple arcade, all Apple is doing is cashing in on the casual gamer, who was already playing games on the iPad. Maybe Apple converted a bunch of people from a freemium model to a subscription model, but they haven't even touch the types of people who drop $250 for a keyboard. And those people are the streamers, the influencers, the people who will keep people away from Apple due to Apple's tendency to break old binaries.

Did you know that Microsoft actually put kernel hacks in for individual games, so that Windows 3.1 games would continue working on Windows 95. Compare that ideology to Apple, who thinks nothing of destroying entire decades of games.

 

[slb]

And keeping all that 20+ year old code in Windows is why it’s been getting more and more unstable with every release. They refuse to take the risks involved in breaking that code that allows 20 year old software to run like Apple has. I do think Microsoft is working on getting rid of some of that code sometime soon though.

Windows 10 is stable in my experience. macOS Catalina, on the other hand...

 

[zorinlynx]

I predict MacOS will continue not supporting the industry-leading Nvidia GPUs, in the coming year on their newest OS. Lets see if my prediction fails.

I blame Nvidia for this. Much of the performance and capability of a GPU is in its drivers, and Nvidia's drivers have been garbage on MacOS for many years. I think Apple finally gave up and is going all AMD to get away from that.

 

[connormw]

Metal 2 blows the doors out of Vulkan and OpenGL. It’s focus is on making macOS the machine of choice for creative production. The arrival of the PS 5 and Xbox One replacement means a huge chunk of new games will be exclusive on those two platform stores. EPIC Games Store also eats away at Steam. Apple Arcade is making a solid stream of revenue for Apple.

Steam will be in for a fight to survive over the next 2-3 years.

This is frankly ridiculous.

Microsoft has already stated that their goal is to make the difference between a Windows gaming machine and the Xbox Series X as small as possible. On that note, they're pushing similar technologies on both platforms to allow developers to release content on both platforms simultaneously.

Steam isn't going to be fighting to survive - they're doing just fine. The amount of money Valve makes on game sales and the marketplace (item trading, DLC, etc.) has led them to focus more on the platform than developing games. EPIC is a competitor, sure, but there are hundreds of millions of Steam users w/ large software libraries that find purchasing on Steam easier and more practical than running multiple storefront apps on their machine.

PC gaming is quite possibly at the highest rate of engagement in its history; its more popular than ever, publishers don't treat it as a second-tier platform, streaming has engaged millions of people, and the massive market of gaming tech (custom built systems, peripherals, etc.) shows no sign of slowing down.

Steam isn't going anywhere - PS5 and Xbox Series X aren't going to kill PC gaming. And Metal 2, despite its technological prowess, isn't a multi-platform engine. No major developer is going to make a Metal-first game unless they're specifically targeting macOS/iOS/iPad OS/Apple TV, which means all the "must-have" AAA games won't be on Mac anytime soon.

 

[nordique]

I don’t think anyone exclusively games on macs

and if you do, why?
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I blame Nvidia for this. Much of the performance and capability of a GPU is in its drivers, and Nvidia's drivers have been garbage on MacOS for many years. I think Apple finally gave up and is going all AMD to get away from that.

I dunno. I think it’s a combo of Nvidia gpus are also more expensive that AMD ones (they are better and have more cutting edge tech)

and for what people with Macs need gpu power for more media and photo editing stuff, they don’t need RTX Titan cards

plus amd makes appropriate gpus for laptop thermals, and Nvidia doesn’t really.

It’s more that amd cost less and was more appropriate to the user base

 

[bladerunner2000]

Not the least surprising when Apple's hardware for gaming is GARBAGE.

To make matters worse, Apple always needed a Mac Pro with iMac internals that allowed for PCIe expansion and upgradability with gaming capable GPUs since Apple has NEVER provided a top of the line GPU. Apple does not (and never has) believed in choice so they've preferred to give all of YOU the finger instead. None of you should be surprised by this.

Anyone commenting in this thread that wants their Mac and be able to game should build a Hackintosh and quit crying.

 

[nordique]

I think the truth is that PC gaming hardly matters. I think you will be hard pressed to find a decent percentage of users in their 30's who game on a PC. I'm not saying it's bad or dumb or anything, it's just changed. And if you enjoy it, awesome. But I don't know a single person who games on a PC anymore (I sued to have at least 20 friends who did). I can't imagine it's significant number of people. And with people under 35 or 25, I'd guess it's almost statistically insignificant compared to iOS gaming much less X-box or Playstation. So, I think it makes sense to drop support and I'm not sure why Apple ever cared about it. For the people building 'gaming rigs' yes, build a Windows gaming rig just as you have always done. The Mac never did this or cared about that market. And I won't even add a snarky comment like "Enjoy living in 1990."

This is not true and saying the words “I guess” Frequently implies that you may not be knowledgeable in this area

PC gaming has had a resurgence if anything. Yes the mass market cares more about Nintendo, PlayStation and Xbox but PC isn’t some withering or dying thing. I am not even a pc gamer myself - heck I don’t even use a pc or have windows for personal use at all. But I do know the video game industry well enough (used to work in it) to say your perspective is out of touch, and ironically more in line with your last sentence

Pc game sales are enough proof/evidence that it’s still a large and healthy market with a massive user base. Many big games like Witcher 3 and Doom 2016 and Eternal sell the best on PC

just because one sees the world through a Mac tinted lens doesn’t mean it’s suddenly not important. Gaming is simply not Mac centric and something like valve dropping this kind of support is not relevant to either Valve or MacOS

 

[mazz0]

Not so stupid to count the Apple II here since DOS/Windows started out in 1981 as a 16-bit clone of the 8 bit CP/M OS and the ease of porting CP/M software was a "thing" with the PC. Two words: Drive. Letters.

What’s this about then? Sounds interesting.

 

[opeter]

I do have a Windows 10 machine and I’m scared to even let it run software updates since they can’t even do that right.

Well, maybe it's a situation of PEBKAC?

 

[NickName99]

I do have a Windows 10 machine and I’m scared to even let it run software updates since they can’t even do that right.

I modified my registry to stop automatic Windows updates, since they kept interfering with my eGPU. My Windows 10 partition is strictly for playing games, so I don’t care if it’s missing updates.

 

[mazz0]

I tried Steam VR on macOS for work purposes but ended getting a PC with windows 10 just for that. It was just too buggy on macOS and barely worked. It’s a catch-22. Of course,
Most users run it on windows if it’s such a terrible experience… 99% of the time it didn’t even recognize the headset and if it did it would crash almost certainly.

To be fair, Steam VR on Windows is pretty buggy too. I have to re-setup my Vive about half the times I try to use it.

Remind me again why Mac users complained (and continue to complain) about Microsoft's proprietary DirectX but it's ok when Apple does the same thing with Metal?

Metal kinda has a justifiable reason to exist in that it‘s optimised for certain hardware controlled by the company that writes it. That’s not true of DirectX.

 

[nt5672]

. . . . .
You must have missed their quarterly earnings the other day? Their Services segment hit an all-time record revenue of $13.3 billion, which is almost 23% of their revenue. This includes Tunes, the App Store, the Mac App Store, Apple Music, Apple Pay, AppleCare, Apple TV+, Apple News+, Apple Arcade, etc. More than Macintosh, iPad combined.

Making money just means they publish a lot of hype, are fashionable, and convince a lot of people, that really don't think too much about what they buy, as long as it looks good, to spend money.

Yeh, I know macOS is free, but not real Apps that some serious people need to use daily, they cost money.

 

[NickName99]

Making money just means they publish a lot of hype, are fashionable, and convince a lot of people, that really don't think too much about what they buy, as long as it looks good, to spend money.

Yeh, I know macOS is free, but not real Apps that some serious people need to use daily, they cost money.

So let me see here... making money is bad, and real apps for serious people cost money.

Good thing I follow these forum threads to keep informed!

 

[DaveP]

Apple has shown over many decades that computers for gaming is not a priority for them. For their own reasons, they don't care very much about that segment of the market. I don't go complain that Kia is ignoring the truck market, or that Porsche is stupid for not offering inexpensive options. Businesses have their own priorities and strategies. If someone is getting worked up about gaming on a Mac, they haven't been attention to years and years of history. I could understand more if Apple made a bunch of promises about making gaming a priority, but they haven't.

 

[nickgovier]

.

 

[VictorTango777]

If you think about it - which other major PC maker really sells gaming machines? HP? Lenovo? Dell? Most gaming machines are either from dedicated game box makers or build your own. The gaming world of scary graphics, neon lights and clackety keyboards aren’t suited to the brands of these major companies. And neither it is for Apple. Casual games, yes. Serious gaming -no.

Metal kinda has a justifiable reason to exist in that it‘s optimised for certain hardware controlled by the company that writes it. That’s not true of DirectX.

Apple has shown over many decades that computers for gaming is not a priority for them. For their own reasons, they don't care very much about that segment of the market. I don't go complain that Kia is ignoring the truck market, or that Porsche is stupid for not offering inexpensive options. Businesses have their own priorities and strategies. If someone is getting worked up about gaming on a Mac, they haven't been attention to years and years of history. I could understand more if Apple made a bunch of promises about making gaming a priority, but they haven't.

Mac users will switch back and forth between referring to Apple as the MacOS platform or as simply another computer manufacturer, depending on which is more convenient at the time.

 

[JCCL]

If anything Mac on ARM would bring iOS level games.........good for casual gaming, but must serious gaming will continue to be done on PC and x86 based consoles. Switch will be the only ARM based machine getting some AAA games with their amazing first partly line up and some ports, but developers venture to that that because of the huge installed base.

Mac and iOS on the other side, will continue getting shallow game that are ok to pass the time, but nothing a serious gamer wants to play if they have access to any other platform. They'll continue targeting the ones with the biggest installed base which is easier to create multiplatform versions (PC + Current and n-gen consoles)

 

[Marshall73]

Im getting less use out of my Mac kit day by day. So much so that I seriously doubt I will ever buy another MacBook Pro. I reckon I can get away with my iPad Pro, iPhone and a MacBook Air then use a windows laptop for any heavy lifting. And I for one never ever thought I would go back to a windows machine for anything. But I have been impressed with my gaming laptop that I got in the Xmas sales for a third of the cost of a new MacBook Pro. I upgrade to the new iPhone every year and iPad every couple of years but I think Im done with that now. Call it Apple fatigue, LOL.

 

[Naaaaak]

Not a surprise since Apple's support for Mac gaming is non-existent.

Apple's support for gaming goes as far as it takes to derive ongoing subscription revenue from Apple Arcade.

 

[Yojimbo007]

very Bad strategy from Apple to neglect high end gaming to this degree!!!

 

[chilly willy]

I’d argue that P.C. gaming is doing quite well. My teenage son prefers titles like Fortnite and Minecraft on PCs, as do pretty much all those he plays with. Consoles are huge, but do not write off PC gaming. What do you think dominates streaming, competitive gaming and e-sports? I’d say it’s the PC. And many games are unavailable on consoles or, as I mentioned in regards to my teenage son, simply in the opinion of many much better experienced on PCs.
I am 50, so not a trendsetter obviously, but there are quite a few games I first played on consoles that I migrated to PC to play. You can add mods etc. And of the PC only titles I enjoy (MMOs come to mind), even those that have minimal requirements have always made my Macs become an oven and sound like a 747 taking off. And the dedicated GPUs Apple offers are usually not the latest. They ask prices for a leading edge gpu and give one that is one or two cycles behind.
So I do most of my serious work on my Mac, and built a gaming rig - as many here suggest. But it does not make me wish any less that I could just use a Mac for it all. I’d buy a tower Mac to complement my MBP in a heartbeat rather than build my own PC rig.

 

[mw360]

very Bad strategy from Apple to neglect high end gaming to this degree!!!

Yet it’s worked perfectly well for several decades.

 

[Stella]

I do have a Windows 10 machine and I’m scared to even let it run software updates since they can’t even do that right.

There’s some else going on - maybe you’ve got flaky hardware, such as your RAM or file corruption.

I have no issues with Windows 10, pretty rock solid.

 

[germinator]

Anyone commenting in this thread that wants their Mac and be able to game should build a Hackintosh and quit crying.

Except even with a hackintosh nowadays you can't use NVIDIA's latest and greatest GPUs any longer (because Apple refuses to sign the drivers). There really isn't a reason to use macOS for gaming, and soon enough pretty much for anything else with Linux looking better and better...

 

[fahlman]

There’s some else going on - maybe you’ve got flaky hardware, such as your RAM or file corruption.

I have no issues with upgrades, pretty rock solid.

It is well documented in the technology press that there have been a string up Windows 10 updates recently that have caused computers to fail to boot, blue screen, and even delete user data.