maflynn
macrumors Haswell
The point is that we can debate the topic without resorting the negative personal comments
Valve Drops Mac Support for SteamVR Less Than Three Years After WWDC 2017 Announcement
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ArtOfWarfare
macrumors G3
Are you suggesting that Half Life, Portal, and Team Fortress aren't dead?
To be fair, they just released Alyx, 13 years after Episode 2, but unless I'm mistaken, basically nobody has played Alyx because nobody has a VR setup for it, and nobody is going to spend thousands of dollars to play a single 10 hour game.
Portal has been dead for 9 years and Team Fortress has been dead for 13 years.
Valve isn't really a game developer anymore.
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It's a dark day for Mac Gaming, and Mac usage in general, when Linux is supported and macOS isn't.
DJC631
macrumors regular
Only speaking from personal experience here, games that run perfectly in Windows for me run like absolute **** on the same machine in macOS.
Any reviews for newer macs I see that run gaming benchmarks always show less than ideal results, even on the high-end options.
This isn't a surprise, but it is unfortunate. Apple's bias to the new and shiny (which I love them for, by the way), doesn't lend well to long term support of already-announced/launched products. They make a bigger splash by announcing something new or a new design than consistent and gradual updates to things like their e-textbooks, Aperture, or gaming on the Mac. I can't imagine any other large company leaving the Mac App Store in the state it's been in for years.
How many years notice did Apple give to developers that 32 bit support would be ending ?
Yet Valve have still to update/port their existing 32bit games to 64bit
I doubt they will do anything on TF2, L4D2 etc
CS:GO Only seems to get updates because they make money on the loot boxes
I’m still waiting for HL2:Episode 3 😁
Yet Valve have still to update/port their existing 32bit games to 64bit
I doubt they will do anything on TF2, L4D2 etc
CS:GO Only seems to get updates because they make money on the loot boxes
I’m still waiting for HL2:Episode 3 😁
TVreporter
macrumors 68020
Who at Apple really hates gaming? Apple Arcade barely makes a scratch in the billions being spent yearly in gaming. Why do they ignore that potential revenue.
theLedger
macrumors member
If you think about it - which other major PC maker really sells gaming machines? HP? Lenovo? Dell? Most gaming machines are either from dedicated game box makers or build your own. The gaming world of scary graphics, neon lights and clackety keyboards aren’t suited to the brands of these major companies. And neither it is for Apple. Casual games, yes. Serious gaming -no.
h3nrch
macrumors newbie
A few things to consider....
- Apple's App Store is the largest casual gaming platform - by active developers and users.
- Apple is aggressively growing "services" revenue driven partially by in-app F2P purchases & subscriptions.
- Apple ARM chips and APIs are highly performant gaming platforms.
- Macs and MacBooks will include Apple's ARM-based CPU/GPU starting next year.
- ARM and Catalyst will enable developers to more easily target games for macOS.
- Will PC gaming devs simply view Macs as they view iPhones?
- How many piopular iOS game devs view macOS as worth targeting?
- How much does Apple care about non-exclusive game titles/brands
- Will Apple's ARKit strategy expand to include true VR gaming support?
- Is there a mutually beneficial economic model for pay-to-own game devs to go exclusive on Apple ARM?
- Will Apple eventually force macOS to go App Store only?
connormw
macrumors member
The truth is gaming on the Mac is dead, unless it's games designed for iOS/iPad OS.
The vast majority of developers aren't going to build a version of their game in Metal to support the small marketshare of Mac gamers. If their computer can play the game, Bootcamp works just fine. Apple killed serious Mac gaming when they deprecated and removed OpenGL, that's just a fact.
The vast majority of developers aren't going to build a version of their game in Metal to support the small marketshare of Mac gamers. If their computer can play the game, Bootcamp works just fine. Apple killed serious Mac gaming when they deprecated and removed OpenGL, that's just a fact.
Madhatter32
macrumors 68000
The most unfortunate thing about the lack of any type of gaming focus by Apple is that they are really losing young people. Given the choice, my kids would pick a PC over a MAC 100% percent of the time. Their friends are the same way. They want PCs to play games and do school work. In fact, if the computer cannot play the games they want, they would rather use a pen and paper. These are Apple's customers of the future. I grew up in a time when Apple really focused on the educational market. It doesn't even do that any longer either. Chromebooks are the new norm within the schools. I guess Apple is so big and concentrated in different markets that it really doesn't see this as a path to the future.
connormw
macrumors member
All 3 of those manufacturers you named have a gaming line. Hell, Dell bought Alienware years ago and they've been pushing out gamer focused machines ever sense.
[AUT] Thomas
macrumors 6502a
Most likely this isn't because anything Apple did or did not, but the fact that VR didn't really take off and Valve isn't going to waste money on a technology which isn't really being used by the masses even on Windows.
They won't pull the plug on Windows VR, but the "Oculus Hype" of 2018 (or so) is certainly over without a broad adoption of VR.
Personally, I'm all in for it, but I'd like a wide angle of view, means also it needs 4k resolution at least -per eye. Now that on most games can't be handled without very serious GPU power. In fact, to achieve a decent frame rate, at least a GTX1080 per eye.
Considering the cost of the GPUs and such a VR headset (which I thinkt doesn't exist yet) setup cost ends in the ballpark of most likely short of 3k.
They won't pull the plug on Windows VR, but the "Oculus Hype" of 2018 (or so) is certainly over without a broad adoption of VR.
Personally, I'm all in for it, but I'd like a wide angle of view, means also it needs 4k resolution at least -per eye. Now that on most games can't be handled without very serious GPU power. In fact, to achieve a decent frame rate, at least a GTX1080 per eye.
Considering the cost of the GPUs and such a VR headset (which I thinkt doesn't exist yet) setup cost ends in the ballpark of most likely short of 3k.
You can put a GPU in literally every one of the desktop PCs of those manufacturers and I think all of them sell laptops with semi-potent GPUs without the RGB bling bling.
opeter
macrumors 68030
To be honest, macOS is likely going into a dead end. It seems like Apple planst in the following decade, that iOS (and derivats) will be dominant in this eco-system and slowly abandoning/replacing the old dinosaur.
Thats is, why they are pushing and forcing the whole iPad Pro + keyboard and such stuff.
Anecdotal, but I've spent more time playing games on macOS with Apple Arcade than I have in years. Diablo 3 might be the last time I spent a considerable amount of time playing a Mac based game. That's one of the strong suits of Apple Arcade: it makes bigger screen gaming much more enticing than it used to be with the same hardware.
stevemiller
macrumors 68020
I work in content creation (Including VR). Apple has made it nearly impossible to stick with the Mac platform for this, unless your content is a YouTube channel that reviews Mac hardware for exporting videos to YouTube.
Using 3D dcc apps? Mac is a headache. Using game engines? Mac is a headache. Want to boot camp? Mac is a headache. Using an egpu? Mac is a headache.
I’m no fan of windows, but at this point I don’t really have any choice. And going between the two just to accommodate everything that macs don’t do doesn’t feel worth it either.
The t2 kernel panics and keyboard issues of my mbp (easily the worst hardware reliability of any Mac I’ve owned in 15 years) is pretty much the final nail in the coffin.
I like the idea of Mac computers. But the reality has drifted ever further from that idea over time. It’s sad.
Using 3D dcc apps? Mac is a headache. Using game engines? Mac is a headache. Want to boot camp? Mac is a headache. Using an egpu? Mac is a headache.
I’m no fan of windows, but at this point I don’t really have any choice. And going between the two just to accommodate everything that macs don’t do doesn’t feel worth it either.
The t2 kernel panics and keyboard issues of my mbp (easily the worst hardware reliability of any Mac I’ve owned in 15 years) is pretty much the final nail in the coffin.
I like the idea of Mac computers. But the reality has drifted ever further from that idea over time. It’s sad.
EmotionalSnow
macrumors 6502
Apple is generally not afraid to leave old things behind. While I like that, I also hate that gaming on macOS is a literal joke ...
Spock
Contributor
And keeping all that 20+ year old code in Windows is why it’s been getting more and more unstable with every release. They refuse to take the risks involved in breaking that code that allows 20 year old software to run like Apple has. I do think Microsoft is working on getting rid of some of that code sometime soon though.
hotdwag
macrumors member
Not a surprise since Apple seems to be going in the direction of being fully proprietary. Metal is a great graphics platform, and there's MoltenVK, but Apple really doesn't seem to want to support a wide-range graphics API. Also throw in the possibility of fully dumping x86 for in house ARM designs will scare off most developers.
Gabe Newell even said in a recent interview that he views Apple's locked down nature to be one of the most dangerous / worse things in the industry. You have things like Windows incorporating the linux subsystem and there's Steam Proton on Linux allowing for installation while Apple is being Apple.
Apple's decisions are smart in some ways, but very damaging in others.
Gabe Newell even said in a recent interview that he views Apple's locked down nature to be one of the most dangerous / worse things in the industry. You have things like Windows incorporating the linux subsystem and there's Steam Proton on Linux allowing for installation while Apple is being Apple.
Apple's decisions are smart in some ways, but very damaging in others.
Stella
macrumors G3
Dell own Alienware, who are well known for gaming rigs.
HP have their Omen range of gaming PCs.
Lenovo have their Legion range of gaming PCs.
So, yes, all of the manufactures you reference build gaming PCs.
Build your own PC is still better value.
HP have their Omen range of gaming PCs.
Lenovo have their Legion range of gaming PCs.
So, yes, all of the manufactures you reference build gaming PCs.
Build your own PC is still better value.
Team Fortress 2 is still doing gang busters (people like buying hats). When I refer to Portal and Half Life I am talking about the impact they make in the investment they get back from the titles to warrant sequels and spinoffs. DOTA and CSGO are still get support and updates on the Mac as far as I know even into Catalina. I wonder why... Maybe from the money made from lootboxes.
For Half Life Alyx, look at the numbers (and for VR in general). The strength of that title alone sold out Valve's $1000 VR system for months. Oculus Quest has had a hard time staying on the shelves prior to the recent health epidemic. VR isn't as dead and unplayed as you may feel it is. Sony's VR option even sold more than all the other VR platforms combined for a bit. Just because you may not be able to afford it or may not have a computer powerful enough to play doesn't mean VR is a dead platform.
Valve is mostly a tech company now but they are an important tech company in the realm of gaming. Take a look at the Mac App store outside of Apple Arcade and look at the junk people would have to play without a Steam option.
If we are factoring numbers sold vs products being actively supported, much like you see Valve not as a games company, do you see Apple as a computer company still?