Valve Says Counter-Strike 2 for macOS Not Happening Because There Aren't Enough Players on Mac to Justify It

[Unggoy Murderer]

Yeah, well, from. AAA gaming perspective, Apple is still “late to the LAN party”, as they have been from the early days of personal computer gaming. They opted out early on by not prioritizing gaming in any way and they got left behind. Mac became the computer you went to to get work done but if you wanted to play, you had to go elsewhere and no amount of work on supposedly superior graphics API is going to move the user numbers much at all.

Definitely agree that Apple are late to the party, but they're obviously moving towards taking it more seriously. The "game migration toolkit" they provided is solid evidence of that.

If they make it easier for developers / publishers to port to macOS, it means that it's effectively lowering the time and effort spent to achieve that, and therefore requiring less money. If Apple improve the Metal translation layers to expand to other APIs (like Vulkan), then it just makes it even easier again. More games, more users - everyone wins.

 

[4odomi]

Imagine being Valve making millions of dollars per month for selling skins in Counter Strike.

Now imagine again being Valve creating a new version of Counter Strike (still a half baked product btw) not willing to support a brand new trend in processors and gpu power because the old statistics say only 1% of players use macOS.

Let be honest the macOS version of CS:GO sucked in the past, but also the hardware it was running on.

This was a perfect opportunity to gain macOS gaming momentum for Counter Strike (new hardware and new version of the game) and they decided to throw it away... to save money.

It's not really saving money throwing thousands of customers away....They lack vision and will end up like Epic

 

[salamanderjuice]

...and that is found... where?

Last I checked there was nothing but CS2 in my steam library.

Beta builds for CS2. One of those is CS GO.

 

[Nugat Trailers]

Valve actually responded, which is quite a lot more than I expected.

Sure, a lack of a Mac playerbase could be related to CSGO taking 5 minutes to start on an M1, which was reported to Valve a month after the M1s launched... but...

 

[GianL]

I'm not a gamer, but this company lacks vision and certainly doesn't look after their customer base 😏

These are stats from September 2023 Steam survey:
Windows 96.94% (+0.33%)
Linux 1.63% (-0.19%)
MacOS 1.43% (-0.14%)
😏

 

[Kiwamu]

Well,

this is why I currently don't own a mac and as long as Apple does not present itself as a viable alternative with easy development for publishers this problem is going to persist. Apple positioned itself for years on end as an elevated platform for (mostly) workuse only and gaming as a second thought. Yes, they bring out the odd showpony of a game on stage during each WWDC recently, but apart from that, that's it. It seems like they trying now to catch up after years of negelct... but they still have lots of work ahead of them.

If Apple wants to compete in the gaming world (other than mobile titles), they have to invest and court developers further. Not just bring Capcom and Hideo Kojima to the fold... and not with games from yesteryear.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Imagine being Valve making millions of dollars per month for selling skins in Counter Strike.

Now imagine again being Valve creating a new version of Counter Strike (still a half baked product btw) not willing to support a brand new trend in processors and gpu power because the old statistics say only 1% of players use macOS.

My bet is 1% is still the case. When more Linux users play games.

Let be honest the macOS version of CS:GO sucked in the past, but also the hardware it was running on.

This was a perfect opportunity to gain macOS gaming momentum for Counter Strike (new hardware and new version of the game) and they decided to throw it away... to save money.

and you’re assuming they want to gain macOS gamers. Valve went out of their way to build in mac support in 2010 in all of their games and concluded after 13 years it’s a dead endeavour with little to no help from apple.

What a dumb outlook - why not use this opportunity to draw NEW and MORE players in, plenty game on Mac but Mac will never been taken seriously for gaming if no devs put the time and effort in to optimise their games.

What’s dumb? I hear you as a Mac fan, but we aren’t that large of a minority that plays games.

Apple unfortunately needs to do the legwork. Until then they will just sell to Windows gamers as most Mac gamers have a windows pc or just a VMmachine to play the games.

 

[diamond.g]

It's not really saving money throwing thousands of customers away....They lack vision and will end up like Epic

Seems like Apple didn't open their wallet and help grease the porting wheels.

 

[hyena.ftw]

I think, the biggest limitation for Counter Strike games on Macs is 60hz refresh rate.

I'm not a gamer, but this company lacks vision and certainly doesn't look after their customer base 😏

One of the most ridiculous comments I've seen. Clearly you know very little of what Valve is.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Definitely agree that Apple are late to the party, but they're obviously moving towards taking it more seriously. The "game migration toolkit" they provided is solid evidence of that.

If they make it easier for developers / publishers to port to macOS, it means that it's effectively lowering the time and effort spent to achieve that, and therefore requiring less money. If Apple improve the Metal translation layers to expand to other APIs (like Vulkan), then it just makes it even easier again. More games, more users - everyone wins.

The harsh reality is that a “migration toolkit” only helps the developer build an additional platform-dependent version that presumably has to be maintained, updated, and tested for the lifetime of the product. For all those costs to be worth it, you have to think you will add a significant number of players.

If I’m developing a PC game, I would give investing in producing additional versions for Xbox and PlayStation SERIOUS consideration because of the large numbers of established players. The additional costs are likely to be worth it. I just don’t see the additional costs for a Mac version panning out.

 

[alchemistmuffin]

Vulkan was designed to succeed OpenGL and address some of the latter's shortcomings, and while there is an open-source library called MoltenVK that provides a Vulkan implementation on top of Apple's Metal graphics API, it still lacks some of Vulkan's advanced features.

And this is prime example of developer being……..

LAZY. ​

Would not be surprised if Steam support for macOS is next to be dropped. Direction Valve is taking lately is not good.

 

[diamond.g]

And this is prime example of developer being……..

LAZY. ​

Would not be surprised if Steam support for macOS is next to be dropped. Direction Valve is taking lately is not good.

I'd think Apple would be happy to get the 30% of games that would then be sold on Mac App Store. Not sure why they would care that a competitor storefront is no longer on their platform.

 

[krspkbl]

Makes sense. It's a competitive game and nobody in their right mind is going to play it on a Mac with a trackpad or magic mouse lmao. It's not worth Valves time, money, or effort to bring to Mac. 99.9% of CS2 players are on Windows.

It's the same reason the game was scrapped for consoles. You don't play this game with a controller. You build a gaming PC, get a 144hz (minimum) monitor, a proper gaming GPU, a mechanical keyboard, and a gaming mouse with adjustable sensitivity/weights.

I play the game on PC but i'm not super competitive but you pretty much need all of the above if you want to not get wrecked in casual games. Sure you COULD play the game on a Mac but it's not worth it. If all you want to do is run about shooting bots or playing online then there are many other games out there for you. You don't need to play Counterstrike.

 

[Mr_Ed]

And this is prime example of developer being……..

LAZY. ​

Would not be surprised if Steam support for macOS is next to be dropped. Direction Valve is taking lately is not good.

It’s not lazy. It’s basic business-driven cost-benefit analysis. If the user traffic numbers from a particular user platform does not pay for the costs to maintain services for that platform, it gets shut down. Pretending a for-profit entity should behave otherwise is just plain naive.

 

[a m u n]

What?

1% of active players in Counter-Strike means 314,668 players. Is that a small number for Valve? 🤔

 

[slb]

I wish Apple would just embrace Vulkan.

 

[Scott6666]

These are stats from September 2023 Steam survey:
Windows 96.94% (+0.33%)
Linux 1.63% (-0.19%)
MacOS 1.43% (-0.14%)
😏

And yet linux is still supported. Why?

 

[alchemistmuffin]

I'd think Apple would be happy to get the 30% of games that would then be sold on Mac App Store. Not sure why they would care that a competitor storefront is no longer on their platform.

Which would be the case. Indie games gets bigger exposure on the App Store compared to Steam, and it’s more optimized, taking advantage of power of Apple silicon and Metal.

It’s not lazy. It’s basic business-driven cost-benefit analysis. If the user traffic numbers from a particular user platform does not pay for the costs to maintain services for that platform, it gets shut down. Pretending a for-profit entity should behave otherwise is just plain naive.

Again, it’s Valve being LAZY……. Even if there isn’t lot of users on Apple platform, if Valve wanted to maximize profit, you make the Mac Version of the game, even if it’s losing money and time consuming. Otherwise, it’s developer being

LAZY.​

Which begs the question, is Valve financially doing okay as company? Because this move also sees it as cost cutting and if that’s also the case, Valve might be in trouble. (Well, Steamdeck was a flop and Valve’s VR was a failure to some extent. Weren’t Valve helping out Apple make Apple Vision Pro?)m

Also, Vulcan is a bag of hurt. It uses more power and it nowhere comes to performance of Metal.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I believe there is a typo in the title of this article. Drop the l in Players and it all likely makes even more $en$e. 😉

The consistent, central problem to AAA games on Mac is about the money:

• Apple doesn’t subsidize development (with money) like the major players. Instead, Apple seems to have a recycling, “build it and they will come” philosophy.
• Apple consumers want no in-app purchases, no subscription models and no advertising (sucking the OPM revenue strategies out of games)
• Apple consumers don’t want the price of the game to be more than a dollar or two. Skim many recent comments about a $60 price for Resident Evil 4 to get a great sense of this.

Where’s the monetary motivation for Mac vs. much more lucrative opportunity elsewhere?

Show developers more money on Mac than they can easily get developing for competitors and AAA games will rain upon the platform. Else the ever-recurring lip service of “we’re serious about gaming this time” always leads to the same outcome.

Most simply: money talks. Show them the money. Or don’t, see nearly nothing in AAA games actually show up and then repeat the lip service spin in a few years with how “we’re really, really, really pro max ultra serious about gaming this time.”

Most tangible Apple move to show they are actually serious?

1. Assemble a dedicated gaming team/department,
2. give them a sizable AppleTV+ service-like content dev budget as subsidizing cash...

...and AAA games will come. Until then, a developer would have to build it out of naive, “we’ll get paid well later” faith or just love of the platform overriding the business side of things (it’s hard to pay the electric bill on love alone).

And add a #3 to the lower list: actually BUY good gaming studios when rumors fly that Apple is among the bidders... instead of those ALWAYS going to the entities actually serious about gaming. Buying the talent will get Mac the exclusives to attract gamers to Mac. A great exclusive or two can forge a lot of desire for any hardware. But, in spite of having more cash than any of the competitors, Apple is only rumored to be among bidders... never actually winning the prize... which means never acquiring the talent and assets... which means that studio's games become exclusives on other platforms.

 

[Kraszim]

What?

1% of active players in Counter-Strike means 314,668 players. Is that a small number for Valve? 🤔

It's a free game, that number is nothing.

And yet linux is still supported. Why?

Because it supports Vulkan API which is the same tech used for Windows. It makes porting the game much easier.

 

[Zc456]

LAZY.​

We heard you the first time.

 

[JosephAW]

So what percentage are using Linux?

 

[Mr_Ed]

… if Valve wanted to maximize profit,

… even if it’s losing money

LOL! All we need to know about your understanding of “profit”.

 

[alchemistmuffin]

I wish Apple would just embrace Vulkan.

ABSOLUTELY NO!!!!!!!!!​

Vulkan is bag of hurt and it’s based on legacy code. If it functioned well and was powerful, and uses less power, Apple would’ve implemented.

Vulkan runs terribly on ARM based processors from my experience. And PC manufacturers are going more towards ARM that is more power efficient and powerful (and that’s all thanks to Apple showing the way) so unless people behind Vulkan rewrite the language to be very power efficient, it has no future.

 

[cicalinarrot]

"Macs are good for gaming" is an empty marketing claim that's been there since forever.
Mac will never be good for gaming, the end. Too little market to justify porting, weak pricey hardware.
I'm glad Apple thinks is a relevant marketing claim to attract young people because it means they'll keep doing the minimum effort to give it some credibility and I'll have some games to play on the Mac I use to work.
Any $700 PC is better than a Mac for gaming, that's what I'll buy when (if) I'll have some time for less casual gaming.